Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
As grim as it is, Disney has put itself in a position where it is imperative that it fails.
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Win or Lose (Pixar Disney+ series)
- Thread starter DCBaker
- Start date
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I admit to being too hooked (or lacking in conviction) to do that. I also tell myself that I don’t want to punish all those involved in the company (many of whom belong to the queer community) by boycotting their contributions. In fact, that’s the only reason I may end up watching this show.
But yes, it’s a difficult time for some of us Disney fans right now. I hope this moment doesn’t last long.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I hope some of its decisions come back to bite the company in consequential ways, but I certainly don’t want it to fail (at least as I understand that word).
Agent H
Well-Known Member
I intend to watch this show but if this trend continues I will have to be more specific about what I will and won’t watch
Ghost93
Well-Known Member
Can't speak for LittleBuford, but I will do whatever I please and will likely skip the show due to the decision to cut the trans character. It was cowardly and a slap in the face to everyone involved in the production and especially trans people who are under attack right now. This isn't me "boycotting" Disney and raising a fuss as much as it's about all the behind the scenes drama killing my interest in the show. Disney going out of it's way to hire a trans actor and promise groundbreaking representation only to back out at the last moment and essentially say publicly that trans people are too inherently inappropriate to exist in media aimed at families left a bad taste in my mouth.
People will point out that Lightyear and Strange World flopped and say Disney is making the right financial move to the the current rise in homophobia and anti-LGBT sentiment. Maybe they are right. But if anti-LGBT bigots can vote with their wallet or streaming views, so can I.
I'm not going to tell others to not watch the show as it may still be well-made and I understand wanting to support the creatives who weren't responsible for the the decision to eliminate the trans subplot. But I just have a hard time getting hyped for this one knowing what I know about how it's been compromised.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I just want to say that I know that @DisneyWarrior27 is coming from a place of real passion for the company, and I don’t think he meant what he posted to come off the way it may have.
@Ghost93, you summed up my feelings also. Disney’s treatment of that character has pretty much killed my excitement.
@Ghost93, you summed up my feelings also. Disney’s treatment of that character has pretty much killed my excitement.
DisneyWarrior27
Active Member
Of course it didn’t come off the way it may have.
But let me ask you this?
How many times has Pixar had to suffer for Disney’s actions (either under Chapek with how their original movies never got a chance in theaters or under Iger when they had to rework certain things in upcoming stories to avoid losing their core audiences) and never get any better, failure or success?
How long until that continues for them to the point where people like us have to say “enough?”
DisneyWarrior27
Active Member
Well, at least knowing those involved with making Win Or Lose shouldn’t be punished that it might convince you to stick with the show.
And yes I understand that it’s a difficult time right now. But all of this could have been avoided if people showed up to vote in November to not let a certain Orange-faced narcissistic dictator-wannabe back in the White House to rule America like he’s a king with his Twitter-controlling secret king to be. Now we have to pay the price for our failures. You’d better hope we can change things in the midterms next year because I’m warning you all now, if we can’t reverse what we let happen in the 2024 election, nothing will get better in our world or in our country ever again, and those who in underrepresented groups will not only be shut out from being seen in animation, they will be erased from existence and forgotten.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I don’t really understand your question. I’ve articulated my feelings as clearly as I can; I think it’s best we agree to disagree.
DisneyWarrior27
Active Member
Fair enough.
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
So, is this show any good or not?
The professional reviews I've seen (which cover the first 5 episodes of 8) have been middle-of-the-road leaning on positive, but not great. And as it turns out, the shadow of the changes they made to episode 7 hangs over the reception because the whole theme of the show is the idea that each person you meet is fighting some battle you can't see (with anxiety, shyness, etc.) and deserves empathy and compassion, so the implication that a transgender character doesn't deserve that consideration sort of cuts the idea off at the knees.
This is sad…Disney is not going to falter in our lifetimes… they are too mainstream at this point… but people can still send a message by not watching a product for chaging direction due to pressure from bigots…. If one side can get them to change direction so can the other… I don’t think that is going against the creatives… they got paid
I am lucky…. As a straight white guy I have always had people from the LBGTQ+ icommunity in my life...they have been some of the nicest people I have ever known…I attribute that to always living in a Diverse area and being a Disney fan…. I could be wrong (Someone who is in the community could probably speak more to this)… but it always felt like there was a high percentage that were Disney fans
I will not watch this… I am not prepared to boycott all Disney…. As I am to other companies that have completely deleted their DEI products such as Walmart, Facebook. And Amazon… as it seems Disney still has one… they are just hiding their efforts to appease one side…. It does make me wonder if the Captain America rumors are true though
I am lucky…. As a straight white guy I have always had people from the LBGTQ+ icommunity in my life...they have been some of the nicest people I have ever known…I attribute that to always living in a Diverse area and being a Disney fan…. I could be wrong (Someone who is in the community could probably speak more to this)… but it always felt like there was a high percentage that were Disney fans
I will not watch this… I am not prepared to boycott all Disney…. As I am to other companies that have completely deleted their DEI products such as Walmart, Facebook. And Amazon… as it seems Disney still has one… they are just hiding their efforts to appease one side…. It does make me wonder if the Captain America rumors are true though
DisneyWarrior27
Active Member
Oh they were true alright.
And I don’t think all those creatives were paid since they were laid off from Pixar in 2023.
Architectural Guinea Pig
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Cowardice? Disney has clearly shown that it has been a progressive company, it has had many films where even small amounts of representation have created intense waves of backlash and review bombing that has unfortunately destroyed thousands of hours of hard work by passionate people. While it's not ideal, we have to accept that the removal of controversial topics will increase the film's chance of success. The show is still a work of art in the end and it deserves the maximum amount of love it can take.
DisneyWarrior27
Active Member
This. ^
People need to realize that boycotting does nothing, if not only make things worse.
It’s time to realize the work of the artists matter and can’t be a failure just because a few people aren’t happy they’re being taught a hard lesson
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Yes, cowardice:
Actress speaks out as trans storyline cut from Pixar's Win or Lose
Chanel Stewart, the transgender actress who voiced a trans character cut from Disney Pixar’s Win or Lose has said she is "very disheartened".
www.thepinknews.com
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Disney has displayed abject cowardice on multiple fronts in multiple incidents over the last year. This craven behavior, along with that of many other corporations, is going to facilitate changes to the country and the world you never believed possible. So many things that have been taken for granted are going to change.
We have no good solutions. Artists are going to be hurt regardless. I guarantee that many of them would support taking action, even if it means less people support their art.
Brand loyalty is utterly insignificant compared to what is happening.