Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Disstevefan1]

It’s why park hopping STILL is a convoluted mess 4 years later. Because park hopping breaks the system.

Park hopping sure does blow a hole in the idea that PPRs are being used to force guests into less crowded parks.

I think maybe they gave back the park hopping perk back knowing a fraction of guests use it?

 

[Jrb1979]

G+ looses its luster when more guests purchase it. It also creates gridlock in the parks by slowing standby to a virtual stop. I would think the G+ pool is related to the ticket system and some algorithm determines availability.

It might but at the same time if they really did understand that it loses its luster as more people buy it than why is the limit set so high?

 

[monothingie]

Park hopping sure does blow a hole in the idea that PPRs are being used to force guests into less crowded parks.

I think maybe they gave back the park hopping perk back knowing a fraction of guests use it?

Parks are generally busiest in the morning and midday. By forcing guests to pick a park it ensures the most cost effective allocation of labor. After 2 the importance of tracking guests park plans becomes less relevant as the operational component is already baked in.

 

[monothingie]

It might but at the same time if they really did understand that it loses its luster as more people buy it than why is the limit set so high?

I think it depends on the individual guest buying it. I’d rather walk out of the park than buy a $35 G+, but will that family from Denver that visits every 5 years think the same way?

 

[wannabeBelle]

Thats my point. I get its a “cost” but say an average room holds 3 people thats $100 for DIsney. I woukd guess most people stay at least 5 nights in average. So $20 a night needs to he allocated to keep the guests at bay…

$100 at the consumer side. If Disney is running this as a mass production thing, I'm sure that this would be less expensive to operate, so it is even less for them in terms of paying for it. So many people thought this was a great perk as it made the planning process super easy. Bob has said he wants it back, well you are the Boss Man so just do it!!! Marie

 

[wannabeBelle]

I think it depends on the individual guest buying it. I’d rather walk out of the park than buy a $35 G+, but will that family from Denver that visits every 5 years think the same way?

Same Dude, same. Meet me at Trader Sam's for a drink or two? Marie

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

$100 at the consumer side. If Disney is running this as a mass production thing, I'm sure that this would be less expensive to operate, so it is even less for them in terms of paying for it. So many people thought this was a great perk as it made the planning process super easy. Bob has said he wants it back, well you are the Boss Man so just do it!!! Marie

Where has he said this?

If I had to guess, they may keep this bullet in the chamber for Epic based on how they see their bookings are affected.


Plus, the infrastructure is already there due to the Mears consolidation with Sunshine Flyer. Just do a new contract to pay them X for FY 2025.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Where has he said this?

If I had to guess, they may keep this bullet in the chamber for Epic based on how they see their bookings are affected.


Plus, the infrastructure is already there due to the Mears consolidation with Sunshine Flyer. Just do a new contract to pay them X for FY 2025.

Someone else had mentioned it earlier in the thread about Bob wanting ME back. And I agree about the infrastructure being set up, it is a question of ponying up the money. Marie

 

[Jenny72]

Yeah, it's funny, but if I had had that same Mears experience from last week, except with Disney music playing, some Disney trivia on the way, and a bunch of drivers wearing Mickey ears or whatever, it would have felt a lot more cheerful than the experience we had. (Which, again, was not bad. Just...very ordinary.)

It's like, Disney would not have to make that much effort to bring back some joy to this whole experience. I feel like they could do this in just a few little places while spending not that much money. It's like, go for the low-hanging fruit, people. Make us feel a bit like premium customers here. There are times I do still feel like that at Disney, and it is part of what draws us back despite a lot of changes we don't like.

 

[Splash4eva]

Yeah, it's funny, but if I had had that same Mears experience from last week, except with Disney music playing, some Disney trivia on the way, and a bunch of drivers wearing Mickey ears or whatever, it would have felt a lot more cheerful than the experience we had. (Which, again, was not bad. Just...very ordinary.)

It's like, Disney would not have to make that much effort to bring back some joy to this whole experience. I feel like they could do this in just a few little places while spending not that much money. It's like, go for the low-hanging fruit, people. Make us feel a bit like premium customers here. There are times I do still feel like that at Disney, and it is part of what draws us back despite a lot of changes we don't like.

Also from a psychological pov you are now in a better “disney” mood and that imo means spending more money on souvenirs or things that you may not have beforehand… just a very silly decision made by someone looking strictly at a bottom line number which is not the best when running a business always

 

[MR.Dis]

Someone else had mentioned it earlier in the thread about Bob wabting ME back. And I agree about the infrastructure being set up, it is a question of ponying up the money. Marie

I have mentioned this before, but there is really no expense to Disney for ME. All room rates were increased to cover the cost and DVC dues were slightly increased to cover the expense. The part that is never discussed is when ME went away, room rates did not decrease, Disney just kept the upcharge for profits. DVC never saw any big deduction for at the same time ME ended, the new employee contracts went into effect and all dues increased to cover the increase in wages. To bring ME back, Disney would need to do a room rate increase at all resorts and DVC dues would need to get adjusted to cover the ME expense. My understanding was Disney saw ridership decrease on ME and Mears refused to budge on their rates they were charging Disney, which is why Disney ended the program. The question is, after several years of operating ME, does Mears financials make it better to operate ME or is it better to have a contract thru Disney to offer the service.

 

[Ayla]

And welcome back to the point of the thread. I can tell you if I had an IncrediPass AP (No blackout dates)and wanted to plan a trip a number of months out, but didnt know what park I wanted to be in on what day yet so I wasnt going to make reservations, I would be less than happy to know that I may not get to go to the park I want to if I just want to decide that on the day of my trip. So at that point, why would I invest in an AP if I wasnt sure I could get into the park I wanted to? So perhaps I just buy a day type of ticket and go less times in the year, leading to a drop in attendance. Marie

Or, perhaps you say WDW has become more hassle than it's worth, don't renew the AP and decide to vacation elsewhere.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Or, perhaps you say WDW has become more hassle than it's worth, don't renew the AP and decide to vacation elsewhere.

Correct. Either way attendance is reduced at the park. Gambling like that is not a good strategy though, as when attendance really did drop, they looked to the AP holders to come and spend money in the Parks. If those people no longer purchase an AP and just put Disney in with a ton of other vacation destinations to choose from and Disney doesnt become the "easy" choice, that is risky. Marie

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I know that for a long time after the parks were re-opened, the number of reservations available was absolutely not linked to capacity.

Instead, Disney would shut off park reservations at (say) MK and DHS to encourage guests to go to AK and EP.

So if they guaranteed X number of CMs shifts at DAK and it looked like they didn’t need that many based on demand, to avoid paying OT at the Magic Kingdom for extra CMs there, they’d just shut off reservations at MK and drive guests to visit AK.

There you go bringing facts and truth to the conversation and ruining all the conspiracy theories.

 

[lentesta]

There you go bringing facts and truth to the conversation and ruining all the conspiracy theories.

Heh. I may have said before how I heard this: a friend interviewed for a data science job with the parks. The friend was asked if they'd be willing to work one on-call weekend per month.

Naturally, my friend was like "Y'all have data science emergencies? On weekends?"

And it was explained that when management wanted to re-balance park attendance using reservations as the tool, management would also want to know the financial implications of re-routing guests from one park to others. So those projections would have to be updated ASAP, including on weekends.

On the one hand, that's an impressive set of capabilities. Hats off to Disney for building it.

On the other hand, it makes pretty clear that park reservations benefit shareholders more than guests.

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

Heh. I may have said before how I heard this: a friend interviewed for a data science job with the parks. The friend was asked if they'd be willing to work one on-call weekend per month.

Naturally, my friend was like "Y'all have data science emergencies? On weekends?"

And it was explained that when management wanted to re-balance park attendance using reservations as the tool, management would also want to know the financial implications of re-routing guests from one park to others. So those projections would have to be updated ASAP, including on weekends.

On the one hand, that's an impressive set of capabilities. Hats off to Disney for building it.

On the other hand, it makes pretty clear that park reservations benefit shareholders more than guests.

This is informative, and indicative of how the system is continually gamed against the guest.

 

[Jrb1979]

Heh. I may have said before how I heard this: a friend interviewed for a data science job with the parks. The friend was asked if they'd be willing to work one on-call weekend per month.

Naturally, my friend was like "Y'all have data science emergencies? On weekends?"

And it was explained that when management wanted to re-balance park attendance using reservations as the tool, management would also want to know the financial implications of re-routing guests from one park to others. So those projections would have to be updated ASAP, including on weekends.

On the one hand, that's an impressive set of capabilities. Hats off to Disney for building it.

On the other hand, it makes pretty clear that park reservations benefit shareholders more than guests.

If the just added to the other parks it would push guests to Epcot, AK and DHS without having to play games to move guests

 

[lentesta]

I think maybe they gave back the park hopping perk back knowing a fraction of guests use it?

Earlier this year we looked at the kinds of queries people were putting into our Least Expensive Ticket Calculator tool.

If I remember correctly, we saw a slight dip from 2019 to 2023 in the number of guests buying the park hop option.

My favorite explanation was that it showed some guest hitting their budget limits and deciding to buy Genie+ instead of the PH option.

If the just added to the other parks it would push guests to Epcot, AK and DHS without having to play games to move guests

Park expansions require lots of money. A statistician's salary is a rounding error in comparison. Honestly, @Jrb1979 - won't someone think of the shareholders????!?

 

[LSLS]

Honestly the discussion is hilarious. A company who collects all the data they possibly can from all sorts of places to leverage it into decision making somehow decided that the idea of knowing in advance how many people were attending a given park on a given day was not information they needed or wanted to use.

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

Honestly the discussion is hilarious. A company who collects all the data they possibly can from all sorts of places to leverage it into decision making somehow decided that the idea of knowing in advance how many people were attending a given park on a given day was not information they needed or wanted to use.

It’s really not a discussion. It’s many of us sharing clear-eyed observations and drawing reasonable inferences from them, and then @el_super parachuting in to tell us 2+2=cabbage.