Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

To answer his question, no, society cannot continue in this manner for years and decades. It’s just not sustainable. I understand these may be things for now. But that isn’t what he asked.

We actually could continue in the manner he described for years if it was necessary. Will we….no, many people never took any real precautions from day 1 and won’t start now. We have had wars that lasted years where society was severely impacted. Food, gasoline and various goods were rationed, pro sports leagues even shut down. It’s certainly possible for our society to actually address the need in an emergency and curb our activity as needed but when a large enough percentage of people don’t think Covid is a big deal it won’t happen.

 

[DisneyCane]

On average 7600 people die in the US every day from all causes. With 100's of thousands of doses a day being administered, it's no surprising that those two statistics will line up occasionally.

This narrative that x number of people died within y amount of time of getting vaccinated is very ignorant. You could make the same statistic based off of people drinking a vegan smoothie and dying within 2 weeks.

 

[bpiper]

For your viewing pleasure: Here are breakthrough numbers for MA from the state's Covid-19 website.

 

[The Mom]

Correlation is not causation. If I get vaccinated and then hit by a bus, I wasn’t hit by the bus because I was vaccinated. There have not been thousands of deaths caused by the vaccines. Just like hospitals aren’t full of people with vaccine side effects or broken legs who just happen to test positive.

I have a friend who fell and broke his hip right after getting vaccinated because he was running a fever and was a little unsteady. Did the vaccine break his hip? No. Was it related to getting the vaccine - maybe, but anything that caused him to be unsteady, such as an uneven surface or scatter rug, could also have caused a fall. And the fact that he was getting up at night without turning on a light was, IMO, a greater contributor.

 

[Timmay]

Just a clarification.
Pro sports leagues in the US were not shut down during war time. The quality of players certainly changed, and some teams weren’t able to play some games due to lack of players, but shutting down has never happened. The only sport suspended was auto and motorcycle racing during WWII due to the gasoline rationing.

Heck, England continued football during WWII, even with the threat of enemy bombing.

 

[Aries1975]

To no one specific... jumping 300 pages because there are not enough hours in the day to keep up with this thread.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Disney Experience]

I have a friend who fell and broke his hip right after getting vaccinated because he was running a fever and was a little unsteady. Did the vaccine break his hip? No. Was it related to getting the vaccine - maybe, but anything that caused him to be unsteady, such as an uneven surface or scatter rug, could also have caused a fall. And the fact that he was getting up at night without turning on a light was, IMO, a greater contributor.

Not sure if the following counts as death by vaccine, but I think it does ( if causation is determined) .

In Japan three people died when injected with Moderna vaccine made defectively in Spain ( Metal from cap contaminated solution) . Of course the cause has nothing to do with the vaccine itself rathet manufacturing and QA The risk from covid is still worse than the risk of death from the manufacturing mistake.
But nothing is without risk, and technically people have died from “taking” the vaccine. ( Though article does mention it is not sure the bad batch was the cause )

Third person dies in Japan after taking contaminated Moderna coronavirus vaccine

A 49-year-old man died the day after taking his second shot of the vaccine, though authorities said a causal link has not been identified

www.theguardian.com

 

[danlb_2000]

This narrative that x number of people died within y amount of time of getting vaccinated is very ignorant. You could make the same statistic based off of people drinking a vegan smoothie and dying within 2 weeks.

I read through some of the VAERS death reports at one point. Some are light on details, but I saw some where the person was clearly close to death before they got the vaccine and since the higher risks groups had a higher vaccination rate it only stands to reason that there would be some coincidental deaths in that group.

 

[Kevin_W]

I missed this study last week: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3916094

Key findings, Moderna was 87.4% effective against all forms of Covid (Delta the most prevalent strain at 47%), 95.8% against hospitalization and 97.9% against death.

 

[disneygeek90]

99.1% unvaccinated is incredible

 

[mmascari]

If I get vaccinated and then hit by a bus, I wasn’t hit by the bus because I was vaccinated.

Are you sure? If you took some pain medication that made you drowsy, slowed you down and caused you to not see the bus? Sounds like it's a direct cause at the start of the event chain.

I have a friend who fell and broke his hip right after getting vaccinated because he was running a fever and was a little unsteady. Did the vaccine break his hip? No. Was it related to getting the vaccine - maybe, but anything that caused him to be unsteady, such as an uneven surface or scatter rug, could also have caused a fall. And the fact that he was getting up at night without turning on a light was, IMO, a greater contributor.

Did someone tell him the vaccine gives you better night vision? Sounds like he was "mislead" into leaving the light off. Now we have to worry about broken hips and busses.

You could make the same statistic based off of people drinking a vegan smoothie and dying within 2 weeks.

That's just "wonderful", now we have to add vegan smoothie to the list along with bus and not enhancing night vision.

When will it ever end!

 

[Touchdown]

This just seems tailor made for this board, as it compares Florida and California (the results should surprise no one)

 

[Polkadotdress]

Adding to @Touchdown ’s post, here’s another Tweet that highlights exactly how well FL is doing.

We are “winning” in all the wrong ways.

 

[mmascari]

Ok. On the flip side the data is clear as day that if you are fully vaccinated per current guidance for doses, it reduces your chance of having a severe COVID illness to nearly zero. According to the CDC data through Friday, 2,650 people out of 173 million "fully vaccinated" have ended up in the hospital due to COVID to date. That's in the middle of a huge spike in some states. That's 0.0015% who are fully vaccinated that have ended up in the hospital.

Therefore, from the standpoint of being protected from a concerning illness, it statistically does not matter to a vaccinated person if somebody else is unvaccinated.

Can you correlate those statistics against current community spread levels at the time they were infected? How many of those were in areas in the middle of a huge spike vs in other areas? Then normalized for population vs raw numbers.

None of these things are "safe" vs "not safe" or "protected" vs "not protected". As @Heppenheimer points out, everything either "reduces risk" or "increases risk". The vaccine is a HUGE risk reduction item. Low spread is a risk reduction item. Rampant uncontrolled spread and a large percentage of unvaccinated people keeping that spread active is a huge increased risk. Other things nudge the risk up or down, but clearly vaccination has the largest impact.

 

[GoofGoof]

This just seems tailor made for this board, as it compares Florida and California (the results should surprise no one)

Stat buried in the thread….30% of covid deaths in FL have occurred since April 1. Almost all those deaths were 100% preventable if people just took the damn vaccine. Really crazy and tragic

 

[DisneyFan32]

Adding to @Touchdown ’s post, here’s another Tweet that highlights exactly how well FL is doing.

We are “winning” in all the wrong ways.

I hope the pandemic will be finally over next year as no more new strains will evade vaccines as immunity then we'll go back to square one. I just don't that happen next year or now. Is really gonna happen for new strain to evade vaccinated people or not?

 

[Nubs70]

I hope the pandemic will be finally over next year as no more new strains will evade vaccines as immunity then we'll go back to square one. I just don't that happen next year or now. Is really gonna happen for new strain to evade vaccinated people or not?

Every vaccinated person is a potential selection filter that can spin off a variant.

 

[Lilofan]

Every vaccinated person is a potential selection filter that can spin off a variant.

Then if true that's a reason for vax and non and / or anti vax
people to mask up!

 

[mmascari]

Every vaccinated person is a potential selection filter that can spin off a variant.

This is technically true.

It does require that not only does the vaccine fail enough, but that they then have enough virus replication and go on to infect someone else (could be an unvaccinated person for the next step, doesn't matter). So, it's not a slam dunk going to happen, but it is a risk.

The only way to eliminate this risk is to minimize the virus and vaccinated person interactions. Keep the count low enough that it's unlikely.

There's not many ways to do that.

1. We could not vaccinate anyone. No vaccine breakthrough variants then. No protection either.
2. We could vaccinate enough people to drive community spread super low. This way there are relatively few virus vs vaccinated interactions.
3. We could segregate the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. The vaccinated group will have low community spread. The vast majority of virus vs vaccinated interactions involve the other person being unvaccinated.

Ideally the faster we get to the second option, the better.

Unfortunately, we seem to be headed for the third option slowly.


As a vaccinated person, this is party of why I care about how many unvaccinated people there are. I would like to get to option 2 as fast as possible to minimize this risk. I'm not worried it's going to happen all at one time. Just slowly, one mutation that's more vaccine resistant and replicates faster than Delta at a time. Might just be a mutation that replicates fast enough that does it.