Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

So you are telling me that a bunch of people who won’t take the vaccine because it’s unproven and not FDA approved (even though 1 is now) are lining up to take an unproven treatment under EUA? How do these people rationalize that reality? I assume there is a lot of regret and second guessing decisions but it’s too little too late.

I know I replied to this yesterday but I wanted to add that my wife (a physician) came home from work yesterday and, out of the blue asked me, "why do people who won't take the vaccine have no problem coming in for Regeneron?" Then she pointed out how it doesn't make any sense since the vaccines have been "tested" much more due to the number of people who have gotten shots.

I answered with my theory about it being because "the government" isn't trying to get them to take Regeneron. It would be interesting for a polling or market research company to try and get the answer to this question.

 

[DisneyCane]

I live in South Carolina, not that far from the city of Charleston. Our wonderful governor pretty much outlawed mask requirements, so no there is no mask requirement at the school. Large populations of the school are not wearing them. My oldest is vaccinated, and both my children wear masks. Cases are exploding down here. We will never be quite as bad in numbers as Florida because we simply don't have the population, but in terms of percentages I think we're right about there now.

The truly interesting (scientifically) thing will be to see how the northeastern states fare this winter compared to the southern states now. The northeastern leadership is obviously treating this a lot differently from a policy standpoint.

I think that it could be worse up there for the same reason I theorize that last winter had worse issues in some of the northeast states. It's not only that people spend a lot more time indoors in the winter there similar to Florida in the summer. I think it has something to do with the fact that all air conditioning systems are forced air systems that have at least some filtration. Many heating systems are radiant systems. In indoor environments that have radiant heat, there is no filtration at all. That may be an explanation for why the move indoors affected the northeast worse last winter than during the "indoor periods" in FL last year.

Hopefully the somewhat higher vaccination rates in the northeast will help to keep the situation from getting as bad as it did in the south this wave with respect to hospitalizations and severe illness.

 

[DisneyCane]

If that were the case, one would have to have the numbers on people that served vs people that were deployed vs people in combat…on and on. There isn’t any context when simply saying more people have died from Covid than all US service members during warfare last century, especially when people don’t know what that number is, or even why that number is what it is. If you are knowledgeable about such things, you realize the post does a disservice to the severity of Covid, because deployed troops in WWI and WWII had a higher chance of dying (1-40) than someone infected with Covid does (1-61), and roughly the same as Covid in Viet Nam (1-58)

Here is a real simple way to make a better impact- More people have died in the US from Covid than people attend any single NFL teams home games annually.

None of these comparisons are going to make an impact. Paraphrasing Stalin (I don't say quoting since I assume he said it in Russian), "a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic."

Things like Pearl Harbor or 9/11 have an impact and get a reaction from the vast majority of the public because there is an "enemy" who killed people deliberately. You get angry at the Empire of Japan or Al-Qaeda in response. 9/11 had the added benefit of horrific video and innocent civilians being attacked.

A virus does not have a brain. It isn't consciously "attacking" us. It's just doing what it does biologically. It floats around, attaches to cells and replicates. To use the phrase that nobody likes, it is what it is.

People do not react to diseases the same as they react to attacks by humans. Back when AIDS was a death sentence there were still plenty of people doing things that made it a high risk to contract it. Everybody supports fighting cancer. Imagine if it was discovered that we could cure cancer by shutting down the internet for 3 years. Do you think there'd be majority support for that? I don't.

 

[Timmay]

You’re wasting your time.

Story of my life…

 

[Tha Realest]

New jobs numbers are out, drastic miss on the projections. Significantly, no new jobs in leisure and hospitality. Suggests a softening of demand after all the “revenge travel” hysteria (and I think a result of Delta).

 

[Lilofan]

New jobs numbers are out, drastic miss on the projections. Significantly, no new jobs in leisure and hospitality. Suggests a softening of demand after all the “revenge travel” hysteria (and I think a result of Delta).

Aside from that, the Nasdaq and Dow Jones are full steam ahead and my 401K is happy!

 

[GoofGoof]

I know I replied to this yesterday but I wanted to add that my wife (a physician) came home from work yesterday and, out of the blue asked me, "why do people who won't take the vaccine have no problem coming in for Regeneron?" Then she pointed out how it doesn't make any sense since the vaccines have been "tested" much more due to the number of people who have gotten shots.

I answered with my theory about it being because "the government" isn't trying to get them to take Regeneron. It would be interesting for a polling or market research company to try and get the answer to this question.

Yes, which is why I keep saying the bulk of the vaccine resistance is based on politics. People keep getting upset and saying it’s not political it’s just people questioning a vaccine that is unproven or potentially unsafe, but when the same people rush out to take unproven drugs either also in EUA or not even approved for human use for Covid that argument is thrown out the window.

 

[correcaminos]

I live in South Carolina, not that far from the city of Charleston. Our wonderful governor pretty much outlawed mask requirements, so no there is no mask requirement at the school. Large populations of the school are not wearing them. My oldest is vaccinated, and both my children wear masks. Cases are exploding down here. We will never be quite as bad in numbers as Florida because we simply don't have the population, but in terms of percentages I think we're right about there now.

Thanks for answering. Coincidentally, I know someone who works at a hospital in that area. Stories they have shared are heart breaking.

Our school board just voted to extend masks to grades 9-12 and emphasized that unless there is a legitimate exemption made with the school that Pre-K through 12 is now required (before it was stated K-8).

We had an open house last night. I can count on my fingers the number of parents unmasked. We have about 750 kids in this specific middle school (grades 6-8) so not tiny either. Maskless adults stood out like a sore thumb. No staff were without.

 

[Heppenheimer]

New jobs numbers are out, drastic miss on the projections. Significantly, no new jobs in leisure and hospitality. Suggests a softening of demand after all the “revenge travel” hysteria (and I think a result of Delta).

Wow, the targets were missed by almost 500,000.

I wonder, though, how much of the vacancies in hospitality and leisure were simply not filled, because there seem to be openings everywhere. I can understand why someone who was let go last year wouldn't immediately jump back into the same leaky boat.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Turns out Ivermectin won the Nobel Prize in 2015 for its outstanding results treating humans.

The 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine - Press release - NobelPrize.org

www.nobelprize.org

In Africa and Asia, the drug was probably a game-changer.

Too bad it does nothing for COVID patients.

 

[GoofGoof]

New jobs numbers are out, drastic miss on the projections. Significantly, no new jobs in leisure and hospitality. Suggests a softening of demand after all the “revenge travel” hysteria (and I think a result of Delta).

Yeah, it’s a tough time for the travel industry. Aside from people pulling back on leisure travel many companies have put the breaks on a return of business travel. I know my company had finally removed the restriction on non-essential business travel back in June when most of the corporate offices reopened but we are back to no non-essential travel without VP level approval. It’s crushing to the airlines and hotel industry as well as the urban based restaurants. I can’t tell you how many meals a year just my group alone ate in downtown Houston and none of us has been to Houston since before the pandemic. I’m sure the same applies to many business travelers.

 

[sullyinMT]

I know I replied to this yesterday but I wanted to add that my wife (a physician) came home from work yesterday and, out of the blue asked me, "why do people who won't take the vaccine have no problem coming in for Regeneron?" Then she pointed out how it doesn't make any sense since the vaccines have been "tested" much more due to the number of people who have gotten shots.

I answered with my theory about it being because "the government" isn't trying to get them to take Regeneron. It would be interesting for a polling or market research company to try and get the answer to this question.

I was naïvely hopeful during that early phase when at risk populations were the only ones eligible. States like Montana, the Dakotas, and WV had pretty good uptake among the elderly and native populations. You could take a Pueblo reservation out of New Mexico and transplant it to Vermont or Massachusetts and it wouldn’t affect the percentages too badly.

I’m deeply disappointed in the younger demographic of a particular persuasion for proving everyone around them right. Why they can’t/won’t act more intelligently and instead choose to continue to be misled is a question for the ages.

 

[sullyinMT]

Yeah, it’s a tough time for the travel industry. Aside from people pulling back on leisure travel many companies have put the breaks on a return of business travel. I know my company had finally removed the restriction on non-essential business travel back in June when most of the corporate offices reopened but we are back to no non-essential travel without VP level approval. It’s crushing to the airlines and hotel industry as well as the urban based restaurants. I can’t tell you how many meals a year just my group alone ate in downtown Houston and none of us has been to Houston since before the pandemic. I’m sure the same applies to many business travelers.

Yup. Wife’s company is a small player in the business traveller bucket, but just as trips were being approved the plug was pulled again. Trips aren’t outright banned, but the threshold for justification is quite high.

 

[Tha Realest]

Yeah, it’s a tough time for the travel industry. Aside from people pulling back on leisure travel many companies have put the breaks on a return of business travel. I know my company had finally removed the restriction on non-essential business travel back in June when most of the corporate offices reopened but we are back to no non-essential travel without VP level approval. It’s crushing to the airlines and hotel industry as well as the urban based restaurants. I can’t tell you how many meals a year just my group alone ate in downtown Houston and none of us has been to Houston since before the pandemic. I’m sure the same applies to many business travelers.

My heart aches for the travel industry, generally, as a whole (though airlines malfeasance is another story). That said, I hope this is so damned painful to Disney that they have to dial back on all the nonsense of the last few years. I missed the days of post-9/11 and the Great Recession, but understand the parks were empty and they were running promotions galore to get people back.

"But if you care about the parks you should want them to succeed - when times are bad the park development suffers." Oh yeah? They've already scuttled half of their EPCOT plans and the only things being built are what was already past a point of no return. How will a further downturn make current development any worse?

 

[Lilofan]

Yeah, it’s a tough time for the travel industry. Aside from people pulling back on leisure travel many companies have put the breaks on a return of business travel. I know my company had finally removed the restriction on non-essential business travel back in June when most of the corporate offices reopened but we are back to no non-essential travel without VP level approval. It’s crushing to the airlines and hotel industry as well as the urban based restaurants. I can’t tell you how many meals a year just my group alone ate in downtown Houston and none of us has been to Houston since before the pandemic. I’m sure the same applies to many business travelers.

Disney is improvising from being decimated with lack of business travel visitors that wine and dine at resorts / parks and have events at WDW. From the costume shortage category posts and WDW cast experiencing costume shortages some park positions cast are improvising by wearing catering vests instead. Catering revenues at WDW is perhaps little to non existent due to lack of business travel and layoffs of cast of last year.

 

[Polkadotdress]

For the adults in the room...I'm not sure where Novovax stands in the testing and regulatory process, but I'm pretty sure if it ever comes.to market, it will be a niche product, at best. The reason is because the manufacturing process involves cell cultures, which are much more labour-intensive to produce.

If Novovax doesn’t get approved here in the US (although the company had been saying they were applying or use in 4th quarter), then what happens to my daughter and thousands of others who were part of their vaccine trial? Currently she is still being considered “unvaccinated” since Novovax isn’t approved/recognized in the US as a vaccine.

Any idea @Heppenheimer?

 

[Heppenheimer]

My heart aches for the travel industry, generally, as a whole (though airlines malfeasance is another story). That said, I hope this is so damned painful to Disney that they have to dial back on all the nonsense of the last few years. I missed the days of post-9/11 and the Great Recession, but understand the parks were empty and they were running promotions galore to get people back.

"But if you care about the parks you should want them to succeed - when times are bad the park development suffers." Oh yeah? They've already scuttled half of their EPCOT plans and the only things being built are what was already past a point of no return. How will a further downturn make current development any worse?

I would love to use my allotted annual CME at a WDW-hosted conference, but with a toddler who can't yet get vaccinated and a pregnant wife, it just isn't worth the risk currently.

Virtual CME it is, then, for the second year in a row.

 

[Heppenheimer]

If Novovax doesn’t get approved here in the US (although the company had been saying they were applying or use in 4th quarter), then what happens to my daughter and thousands of others who were part of their vaccine trial? Currently she is still being considered “unvaccinated” since Novovax isn’t approved/recognized in the US as a vaccine.

Any idea @Heppenheimer?

No idea.

If I'm not mistaken, those who received Astra-Zenica are considered "vaccinated" in the US, even though it was never licensed here, so perhaps if Novovax finally comes to market somewhere else, the same recognition will be granted.

Actually having a federal vaccine passport system may have helped provide an answer, but apparently, that's one of the things that we can't do here because it's too hard, and we don't like doing hard things in the US anymore.

 

[sullyinMT]

If Novovax doesn’t get approved here in the US (although the company had been saying they were applying or use in 4th quarter), then what happens to my daughter and thousands of others who were part of their vaccine trial? Currently she is still being considered “unvaccinated” since Novovax isn’t approved/recognized in the US as a vaccine.

Any idea @Heppenheimer?

I’m not who you quoted, but this came up in a search about their vaccine. Apparently their early data must look good, even without full submission. I wonder if recent quotes from Dr Fauci regarding three shots being necessary for full protection might be precursors to this, or if he’s referring to same-brand third shots? The second article posted is from a financial analyst’s point of view, but still a reasonable take

Either way, here’s to hoping.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/37355...-fully-vaccinated-two-weeks-after-second-dose

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/nov...-the-solution-to-emerging-variants-2021-09-01

 

[Heppenheimer]

I’m not who you quoted, but this came up in a search about their vaccine. Apparently their early data must look good, even without full submission. I wonder if recent quotes from Dr Fauci regarding three shots being necessary for full protection might be precursors to this, or if he’s referring to same-brand third shots? The second article posted is from a financial analyst’s point of view, but still a reasonable take

Either way, here’s to hoping.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/37355...-fully-vaccinated-two-weeks-after-second-dose

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/nov...-the-solution-to-emerging-variants-2021-09-01

The enthusiasm from the second article might stem from the fact that Novovax also contains the viral membrane protein, which thus far, hasn't shown nearly as much variance as the spike protein. What I've read about most vaccine development, though, indicates that the spike protein generates the strongest antibody response, hence this is the reason why most of the research focused on the spike as a target. The response to the membrane protein might not be enough by itself provide sufficient immunity, but it could add extra protection along with the usual spike protein antibodies.