Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Andrew C]

Looking at Oregon, they have a similar vaccination rate to FL (both slightly lower than CA) with mitigation strategies similar to CA but a more rural state than FL (or CA). Oregon is having the highest case numbers that they've had so far in the pandemic. Oregon's 7 day rolling average is about half per capita what Florida is but it is unknown if either state has peaked yet.

The biggest difference between CA and OR is that CA has a slightly higher vaccination rate. It appears that the vaccination rate is the factor that has the most impact on keeping the numbers down out of the factors that are controllable. It seems that even a small difference in vaccination rate can make a significant difference in case rate.

Stop excusing Florida!!!

For additional context on Oregon...one week trend...it looks like their cases per 100K sit around where Texas is. Although maybe not a great comparison due to a number of factors like geography, population density, etc.

 

[draybook]

Go Yankees

I got to see a game back in 93 or 94 with my dad at the old Yankees stadium. They lost to Joe Carter and the Blue Jays. Totally made the trip worth it and I can say I got to step inside the "House that Ruth" built.

 

[Heppenheimer]

British Columbia is seeing a slight bump in vaccination rates, in response to the announcement that proof of vaccination will soon be required to eat in a restaurant, attend a concert or sporting event, and access other leisure activities.

Masks in indoor spaces are back as of yesterday as well, due to cases increasing again.

All this despite COVID numbers below everywhere in the USA, with the exception of Maine. It's amazing how much of the USA seems to have just thrown in the towel.

I've written this before, but here goes again:

"No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory". FDR, 8 December 1941

"We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too." JFK, 2 September 1962

"I can hear you! I can hear you! The rest of the world hears you! And the people -- and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!" George W. Bush, 14 September 2001

"Wearing masks is, like, so totally hard, I don't want to do it!" USA, circa 2021

"I'll defend this flag and mah freedom to the death, just so long as I don't have to do anything." USA, same.

 

[DisneyCane]

Not sure how many saw this a couple weeks ago when it came out:

What we now know about how to fight the delta variant of COVID | Column

An expert explains why vaccines — and masks — are so important, and why delta is different and more dangerous.

www.tampabay.com

This is a quick easy read, but very important. It really breaks down simply why vaccines AND masks are important.

A quote from the article:

"While we now understand that the virus fades from the back of the throat pretty quickly in a vaccinated person, we also know that an infected, vaccinated person can transmit this very infectious virus to others for at least a couple of days. So, as before, you are being asked to wear a mask to primarily protect others."

So we are back to protecting unvaccinated people by masking. Assuming they actually work to accomplish this, you can make an argument for the vaccinated masking when around children under 12 who can't be vaccinated in an environment with a high risk of transmission. However, there is no argument that will get me to voluntarily wear a mask (as a vaccinated person) if the people I am putting at risk have chosen not to be vaccinated.

Since I'm electing not to visit WDW while masks are required indoors, there is no situation that I am ever in where I am around children under 12 in close proximity for an extended period of time.

 

[DisneyCane]

Although Florida has more or less peaked other areas outside the south still haven't and places like Australia and to a lesser degree New Zealand are rising quite rapidly despite lockdowns.

Now somebody can tell me how, if the US had just "done the right thing" from the beginning, COVID would basically not even exist anymore.

 

[Disney Analyst]

A quote from the article:

"While we now understand that the virus fades from the back of the throat pretty quickly in a vaccinated person, we also know that an infected, vaccinated person can transmit this very infectious virus to others for at least a couple of days. So, as before, you are being asked to wear a mask to primarily protect others."

So we are back to protecting unvaccinated people by masking. Assuming they actually work to accomplish this, you can make an argument for the vaccinated masking when around children under 12 who can't be vaccinated in an environment with a high risk of transmission. However, there is no argument that will get me to voluntarily wear a mask (as a vaccinated person) if the people I am putting at risk have chosen not to be vaccinated.

Since I'm electing not to visit WDW while masks are required indoors, there is no situation that I am ever in where I am around children under 12 in close proximity for an extended period of time.

You have conveniently left out anyone who cannot get a vaccine despite being in the eligible age group, for other reasons apart from choice.

You also left out that allowing spread to continue, whether you pass it to a vaccinated or unvaccinated person, allows the virus to potentially mutate further, creating far more highly transmissible versions such as Delta.

Aka, stop. Your mindset is wrong and the virus doesn’t care.

Perhaps you’ve become bitter and disillusioned from all this, I get it. It’s frustrating as all heck. But we aren’t Maleficent who goes and punishes people because we are annoyed.

 

[Andrew C]

I've written this before, but here goes again:

"No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory". FDR, 8 December 1941

"We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too." JFK, 2 September 1962

"I can hear you! I can hear you! The rest of the world hears you! And the people -- and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!" George W. Bush, 14 September 2001

"Wearing masks is, like, so totally hard, I don't want to do it!" USA, circa 2021

Not a fan of these comparisons, but okay.

1. Even after Pearl Harbor, only 75% or so of the American people supported entering into WW2.
2. Many were furious with the amount of money going to the space program. Continuous protests. JFK wasn't even that big of a fan of it...it was just a distraction for him to steer people away from crappy stuff going on.
3. How many conspiracy theorists popped up and still exist? And look where we are with this today.
4. Some people just don't agree they are beneficial in all circumstances/settings and think too much emphasis are put on them as the savior.

Also, the last quote should have focused on vaccines and the reaction of some avoiding it, IMO. If we can't overcome that...well....

 

[peter11435]

Now somebody can tell me how, if the US had just "done the right thing" from the beginning, COVID would basically not even exist anymore.

Orange County Florida has had several times more deaths than the entire country of Australia.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Not a fan of these comparisons, but okay.

1. Even after Pearl Harbor, only 75% of the American people supported entering into WW2.
2. Many were furious with the amount of money going to the space program. Continuous protests. JFK wasn't even that big of a fan of it...it was just a distraction for him to steer people away from crappy stuff going on.
3. How many conspiracy theorists popped up and still exist? And look where we are with this today.
4. Some people just don't agree they are beneficial in all circumstances/settings and think too much emphasis are put on them as the savior.

Also, the last quote should have focused on vaccines and the reaction of some avoiding it, IMO. If we can't overcome that...well....

The point being, these were difficult things but we did them... for the most part. Much more difficult than expecting adults to wear a mask in certain situations and get a free vaccine.

And 75% in favor of any war seems really high.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Super helpful report. Lol

Tell me about it. Nothing we didn’t already know!

 

[Andrew C]

The point being, these were difficult things but we did them... for the most part.

Yes, but you also quoted Presidents, and then compared it to a pretend quote from the American people. So as I said, I don't really like these comparisons. No ill will towards you for posting this. Just a bit of debate.

 

[Lilofan]

I've written this before, but here goes again:

"No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory". FDR, 8 December 1941

"We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too." JFK, 2 September 1962

"I can hear you! I can hear you! The rest of the world hears you! And the people -- and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!" George W. Bush, 14 September 2001

"Wearing masks is, like, so totally hard, I don't want to do it!" USA, circa 2021

"I'll defend this flag and mah freedom to the death, just so long as I don't have to do anything." USA, same.

It is ironic that events like Dec 7 or 9/11 brought us together to combat and defeat the enemy but an enemy like covid which ended 600K plus lives and counting and we can't as a people be on the same page as getting vaccinated and wearing masks to defeat covid. Other countries are not just hating us but must be laughing at us now.

 

[DisneyCane]

You have conveniently left out anyone who cannot get a vaccine despite being in the eligible age group, for other reasons apart from choice.

You also left out that allowing spread to continue, whether you pass it to a vaccinated or unvaccinated person, allows the virus to potentially mutate further, creating far more highly transmissible versions such as Delta.

Aka, stop. Your mindset is wrong and the virus doesn’t care.

Perhaps you’ve become bitter and disillusioned from all this, I get it. It’s frustrating as all heck. But we aren’t Maleficent who goes and punishes people because we are annoyed.

The people who can not be vaccinated for a medical reason or the immunocompromised who don't get the same effect from the vaccine have no choice but to take additional precautions like wearing an N95 respirator in public.

I know the virus doesn't care. It doesn't really care about most mitigation measures either. The guy who was going to crush the virus said (before vaccines were available) that I only need to wear a mask through April 30th. That turned into indefinitely just like "15 days to slow the spread" turned into 15+ months to slow the spread.

Get vaccinated, if your kids are 12 or older get them vaccinated and stop worrying about what vaccinated people wear or don't wear to Walmart.

Orange County Florida has had several times more deaths than the entire country of Australia.

My point was that even with very strict mitigation, COVID still very much exists there. If we just locked down "a little longer" in the US, it would still very much exist here too. Australia also has the advantage of being an Island Continent that can easily control entry through the borders and do things to keep the virus out that are impossible in the US.

Who knows how many deaths will result from their current spike.

 

[Parker in NYC]

It is ironic that events like Dec 7 or 9/11 brought us together to combat and defeat the enemy but an enemy like covid which ended 600K plus lives and counting and we can't as a people be on the same page as getting vaccinated and wearing masks to defeat covid. Other countries are not just hating us but must be laughing at us now.

No military contractors involved.

 

[Andrew C]

Meanwhile, in Canada. One week trend. They are still well under their January peak case count of just under 10K. We will see how far this wave goes. Their vaccination rate is higher than that of the US. They are definitely more willing to "shut things down" than the US. Or they have been...

 

[mmascari]

Although Florida has more or less peaked other areas outside the south still haven't and places like Australia and to a lesser degree New Zealand are rising quite rapidly despite lockdowns.

Now somebody can tell me how, if the US had just "done the right thing" from the beginning, COVID would basically not even exist anymore.

Because that stat is a deliberate bad faith misrepresentation designed to be both true and yet suggest something completely false at the same time.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-cases.html

The Covid-19 Tracker

As the virus that causes Covid-19 spreads worldwide, this dashboard offers a snapshot of confirmed cases by geographic location. Click a country name to get a more detailed geographic breakdown at the state, province, or county level. Learn more.

www.statnews.com

It's completely true that Australia shows a 168% change in the cases/100K. New Zealand a 782% increase. From NY Times.

It's completely false, a misrepresentation, and a very bad faith agreement to suggest that means they're headed towards FL levels or even comparable.

Daily new cases per 100K:
Australia - 4/100K.
New Zealand - Less than 1/100K.
FL - 100/100K.


The US (and FL) could have done all kinds of things to get the rate closer to 4 than 100. Still could, but isn't going to.

 

[DisneyCane]

It is ironic that events like Dec 7 or 9/11 brought us together to combat and defeat the enemy but an enemy like covid which ended 600K plus lives and counting and we can't as a people be on the same page as getting vaccinated and wearing masks to defeat covid. Other countries are not just hating us but must be laughing at us now.

It's easy for the vast majority of people to get angry at a human enemy for a deliberate attack that kills fellow citizens. Not so easy to be angry at a microscopic particle. If it had been a Chinese bioweapon, then people would have been brought together to defeat the virus and show the enemy that they can't bring us down. As a naturally occurring pandemic (or an accidental release) it doesn't have the same emotional effect.

Besides, what did we really do as citizens in response to 9/11? Get happy that the military was being sent to get revenge and give GWB high approval ratings for a little while? The only thing we had to put up with as citizens as a result of 9/11 is "enhanced" security screening by the TSA where unqualified people put on a security show with expensive equipment and some invasion of privacy allowed by the Patriot Act.

 

[disneygeek90]

Orange County Florida has had several times more deaths than the entire country of Australia.

Furthermore-
OC population: 1.39million
OC cases: 191k


AUS population: 25.36million
AUS cases: 47,840

 

[sullyinMT]

Yes, but you also quoted Presidents, and then compared it to a pretend quote from the American people. So as I said, I don't really like these comparisons. No ill will towards you for posting this. Just a bit of debate.

The better comparison would be to our presidents and governors who have straddled this across administrations. The overwhelming majority have left a void of leadership shown in the other presidents’ quotes. The better point is that they historically weren’t trying to appease their base and thereby alienating everyone else. That goes for both parties and a lot of sound bites along the way. Say the hard thing, lead from the top, and let the experts figure out how to get it done. I posted a few days ago the text of our superintendent’s email to school staff. It was difficult but stern leadership, political fallout be damned. He earned a lot of my respect (has been all along, tbh), but he answers only to the board here and not all voters.

Steve Jobs didn’t invent the modern handheld computing ecosystem all by himself. He’s the one with the vision and leadership to have seen it to fruition. Same for Bezos and Branson pioneering space tourism. From industrialists to presidents, they’re all flawed people that we can pick apart, but we can’t question their grit and fearless leadership. Churchill was no saint, but he was a pretty good John Lithgow in Britain’s hour of need .

 

[Andrew C]

Churchill was no saint, but he was a pretty good John Lithgow in Britain’s hour of need .

I honestly did read everything you wrote. But I must call out this reference as something I enjoyed.