Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Timmay]

No, but mitigation can prevent spreading the virus to those who are most vulnerable. Children can contract COVID and spread it to others including adults which continues to put everyone at risk. Experts have repeatedly stated that multi-layer mitigation efforts, including vaccinations, masking, social distancing and remote learning can help us reduce the spread and protect others. But there is a culture resistant to that approach. So in spite of case numbers soaring in schools- and yes that metric absolutely matters- some states including FL have decided to not only abandon those measures, but to actively campaign against them and punish those who try to put mitigations in place. How is this not a problem? How is this even remotely close to doing the best we can do?

First, I’m in no way saying all the mitigations you listed aren’t helpful with Covid, by any means. However, there is no doubt severe consequences to kids with those mitigations in place for extended periods of time. Some experts I think missed these consequences early on. So my second point is, I apologize because I’ve posted this article before. There really isn’t an easy answer and there is more to it than just seeing one side of the consequences.

Children’s Colorado Declares ‘State of Emergency’ for Youth Mental Health

Unprecedented numbers of youth in mental health crisis are stressing systems statewide.

www.childrenscolorado.org

 

[Chi84]

• A study of 11 school districts in North Carolina with in-person learning for at least nine weeks during the fall 2020 semester reported minimal school-related transmission even while community transmission was high.38 These schools implemented and strictly adhered to multiple prevention strategies, including universal mask use and physical distancing. Breaches in mask use likely explained the few instances of in-school spread of SARS-CoV-2.
• A study of elementary schools in Utah who implemented layered prevention strategies, such as mask wearing and cohorting, found very low transmission (secondary attack rate 0.7%) in December 2020-January 2021.74
• In a study of K-12 schools in St. Louis with multiple layered prevention strategies in place, only 2% of contacts of COVID-19 cases in the schools tested positive for the virus; this was despite high community transmission rates.76
• A study of Italian schools, which implemented a comprehensive prevention approach that included masking, distancing, cleaning, increased ventilation, and cancellation of extracurricular activities, found that school reopening was not associated with the second wave of COVID-19 in Italy.47
• Similarly, a surveillance study of symptomatic and asymptomatic cases among children in Swiss schools found limited secondary transmission when multiple protective measures were used in schools,56 including mask use, physical distancing, and other interventions.
• Data from surveillance of German school outbreaks detected outbreaks before any prevention strategies were implemented. After schools reopened with prevention strategies in place, the average number of outbreaks per week after the reopening (2.2) was smaller than before the school closed earlier in the pandemic (3.3), suggesting that prevention strategies had some protective effect.51
• A study of private schools that reopened for in-person instruction in Chicago with the implementation of layered prevention strategies found minimal in-school transmission.57

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

So you won't have to read the whole thing.... which does help.

It seems people are asking for the impossible here. It's just not possible to separate out which mitigation measures would have worked in the absence of others. It's become a matter of doing whatever we can.

The issue is that mitigation measures work just fine in theory. Masks of sufficient quality correctly worn (universal masking) will almost certainly make a difference. The problem is that they are often not correctly worn, or are not worn at all in the places where COVID is most likely transmitted. The question is what do we do then? My answer is to err on the side of caution and get whatever results we can from them. Others disagree and want some indication that masks, in practice, actually make a significant difference.

These conversations, unfortunately, get heated and people cut each other off. I don't see the current discussion as being that COVID is not dangerous to children or that children do not contract or transmit it. But a lot of people are convinced, and there is little data to dispute it, that the sickness and transmission would be virtually the same whether or not the kids are wearing masks. Because it's almost impossible to separate masks from other mitigation measures, we really don't know whether they make an appreciable difference in practice.

 

[SammyMF]

A Modest Proposal...

"Taking the methods our schools use to help curb school gun violence, schools will now implement a similar strategy for covid-19. In schools with a history of violence there was a choice between having every student go through a metal detector, or providing Kevlar vests to every student. It was decided that the metal detectors would be the least intrusive method even though every student would be subject to it without exception.

Using this approach, since it would be unfair to require all students to wear masks at all times on school grounds, and due to the number of parents that do not wish for their child to have a vaccine, schools instead will require weekly covid-19 tests by all students. Those that test positive are to be immediately reported to the proper administrative authorities as well as parents and that child will be quarantined for a period of two weeks. Failure to do a weekly covid test will bar admittance to school grounds for that week."

Chicago Board of Education.

 

[correcaminos]

But again. None of that answers my question. As your post states..They had a number of preventative measures. Including teachers wearing masks I imagine. One mentions ventilation which aligns the the Georgia study. That’s a different argument.

Studies prove that masks help with transmission in humans. Period. Last I checked, children were humans too. Me thinks you won't ever be willing to change your mind, so if you choose to be this obtuse, I'm done.

 

[Lilofan]

Well there is data that shows no statistical benefit. So I’m just asking to see the opposite. If it exists.

So that's means you cannot back up your opinion with proof. Got it.

 

[Touchdown]

The US is not the only one Germany has a school mask mandate. Australia and NZ are now on strict lockdowns.

 

[Nubs70]

Studies prove that masks help with transmission in humans. Period. Last I checked, children were humans too. Me thinks you won't ever be willing to change your mind, so if you choose to be this obtuse, I'm done.

Most face masks won't stop COVID-19 indoors, study warns

Despite wearing a face mask, the study finds a large buildup of aerosol droplets suspended in the air coming from wearers.

www.studyfinds.org

 

[correcaminos]

Most face masks won't stop COVID-19 indoors, study warns

Despite wearing a face mask, the study finds a large buildup of aerosol droplets suspended in the air coming from wearers.

www.studyfinds.org

Sometimes I wonder why do I bother. I swear so many have this NO sites bookmarked just for these types of replies.

Seriously glad I'll be too busy to check as I help with lots of repressed masked kids in school. Too many try to downplay wnd be contrary just to do so and seriously tired of it. Want to be mask free? I really don't care. I hate them myself. I just want people to be safe.

 

[Andrew C]

Studies prove that masks help with transmission in humans. Period. Last I checked, children were humans too. Me thinks you won't ever be willing to change your mind, so if you choose to be this obtuse, I'm done.

It’s quite an assumption to state what applies to adults also directly applies to children. In all settings. I believe we have learned over the years this isn’t always the case. Children aren’t just short adults.

i would like to be open minded. The only study I have seen that directly discusses masks on children in schools says they saw no statistical difference between those schools who had mask mandates for children compared to those that were optional. They did call out the difference in teachers wearing masks. So one was evident but not the other. Even though they looked at both. Curious.

 

[Andrew C]

So that's means you cannot back up your opinion with proof. Got it.

I have pointed to a study that has yet to be disputed.

 

[Archie123]

Almost 2 years in ... and we are still doing mask debates.

How depressing.

Just bloody wear them - if not, at least in indoor settings when around alot of people. You wear seat belts, you don't speed, you don't drink and drive, you put clothes over your private regions, just stop this politicising nonsense about your freedoms.

Wait, when did the wearing clothes over our private regions rule start?

 

[SammyMF]

Most face masks won't stop COVID-19 indoors, study warns

Despite wearing a face mask, the study finds a large buildup of aerosol droplets suspended in the air coming from wearers.

www.studyfinds.org

Misleading. The article (or more importantly the source), if you read it, says masks wont do what they are designed to... or will do it poorly... if worn *improperly* or if they simply dont fit right. Also of course that some masks are better than others. Another main point of the study. You're not going to get N95 protection from a typical cloth mask. But we all know that. The study also is limited to exhaling. Meaning a sick person wearing a mask. It explicitly did not study anything related to inhaling (e.g. protection).

So the study focused on your sick kid wearing a mask and not my kid protecting himself. And if a mask is not doing the job in preventing his water droplets from filling the air he is not wearing it right, its not the right size, or it is a poor mask to begin with. That is what the study is saying. In which case all this anti-mask is the wrong argument. Its not that masks dont work in keeping people from making others sick. Its that the masks people buy for their kids simply are not good enough.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Wait, when did the wearing clothes over our private regions rule start?

Must be a recent rule as I saw SEVERAL individuals last week at WDW not wearing pants, though they were also abnormally large ducks.

 

[SammyMF]

To be fair, it is a pretty tall order to expect young kids to rigorously adhere to proper masking at all times. However if they do it even half the time, and only for the next 30 days for example, its better than none. Kinda strange that while the pro-mask people keep saying correctly that masks are in no way a silver bullet, the anti-mask people say they will only wear them if they ARE a silver bullet. Of the two, which has the more realistic expectations?

 

[correcaminos]

It’s quite an assumption to state what applies to adults also directly applies to children. In all settings. I believe we have learned over the years this isn’t always the case. Children aren’t just short adults.

i would like to be open minded. The only study I have seen that directly discusses masks on children in schools says they saw no statistical difference between those schools who had mask mandates for children compared to those that were optional. They did call out the difference in teachers wearing masks. So one was evident but not the other. Even though they looked at both. Curious.

I honestly do not believe for a second you are being open minded. Sorry. I don't. I hate masks. Really do. Would love to find an excuse to ditch regularly. Would love my kid to be mask free as he's vaccinated as are all in the house. My concern for myself is pretty much zero. But despite my wishes, I find too many studies that say masks help. Maybe not in every single teeny tiny dissected situation, but as a whole they do help.

So what do I do? I stop making strawman arguments just to validate my desire or hopes and be a good person. I'm beyond tired of people arguing on and on over a year later. Just shut up and mask up - do it with the kids until the vaccine-holes are more vaccinated.

 

[Chomama]

Our local infectious disease experts have been pretty vocal lately about kids masking and one of the points that they have been making is that it helpskeep kids from putting their hands in their nose and mouth. They fully acknowledge that masks aren’t perfect but that this is a helpful side benefit for keeping kids healthy. There is a reason that there was almost no pediatric flu last year and it isn’t that the flu became less contagious. Masks kept our kids from getting sick last winter

 

[lazyboy97o]

It gives lie to everyone's claim that CDC edict is sacrosanct.

Which food borne illness that can be caused by poorly prepared beef is then easily transmitted person to person?

 

[Andrew C]

It seems people are asking for the impossible here. It's just not possible to separate out which mitigation measures would have worked in the absence of others. It's become a matter of doing whatever we can.

The issue is that mitigation measures work just fine in theory. Masks of sufficient quality correctly worn (universal masking) will almost certainly make a difference. The problem is that they are often not correctly worn, or are not worn at all in the places where COVID is most likely transmitted. The question is what do we do then? My answer is to err on the side of caution and get whatever results we can from them. Others disagree and want some indication that masks, in practice, actually make a significant difference.

These conversations, unfortunately, get heated and people cut each other off. I don't see the current discussion as being that COVID is not dangerous to children or that children do not contract or transmit it. But a lot of people are convinced, and there is little data to dispute it, that the sickness and transmission would be virtually the same whether or not the kids are wearing masks. Because it's almost impossible to separate masks from other mitigation measures, we really don't know whether they make an appreciable difference in practice.

I just think people don’t like others to challenge their assumptions. In this case, the assumption being because masks have shown to be beneficial to certain individuals in certain settings, they must be beneficial to all individuals in all settings. But this is flawed because they are making another assumption that in every setting, all parts are equal. In reality, we know this isn’t accurate.

However if they do it even half the time, and only for the next 30 days for example, its better than none

Is it though? In a school setting? Heaven forbid I challenge that though, eh?
And I’m not anti mask. I’m just against putting unnecessary restrictions on young children where I see no benefit.

 

[Chi84]

In which case all this anti-mask is the wrong argument. Its not that masks dont work in keeping people from making others sick. Its that the masks people buy for their kids simply are not good enough.

I thought the argument was that kids (at least a whole lot of them) aren’t wearing the masks correctly - not that the masks aren’t good enough. Maybe I’m misinterpreting, but I don’t remember seeing anyone say the masks aren’t good enough if worn as intended.

 

[Andrew C]

Just shut up and mask up - do it with the kids until the vaccine-holes are more vaccinated.

Nah. I’m vaccinated. I will mask to get into a place of business if required. I’m a rule follower typically. My elementary school kid doesn’t have to mask anymore at school thank goodness. And my 3 year old has been in preschool without a mask during most of the pandemic. I know. Such a horrible parent.