Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Virtual Toad]

Grown *** adults who choose not to take proper care of themselves can suffer the consequences of their actions (or inaction). I genuinely don't care what happens to a conspiracy-peddling anti-vaxxer.

Do you care about elderly grandparents? Do you care about parents, grandparents and/or relatives with immuno-compromised systems?

Do you care about teachers, first responders and front line medical workers?

Do you care about vulnerable people including those with physical and intellectual disabilities who live in group homes and nursing homes?

Because all of them are vulnerable to severe consequences of COVID whether vaccinated or not. Preventing the spread of cases in schools— and subsequently from children to adults— is just one more way we can prevent cases from spreading overall.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Do you care about elderly grandparents? Do you care about parents, grandparents and/or relatives with immuno-compromised systems?

Do you care about teachers, first responders and front line medical workers?

Do you care about vulnerable people including those with physical and intellectual disabilities who live in group homes and nursing homes?

Because all of them are vulnerable to severe consequences of COVID whether vaccinated or not. Preventing the spread of cases in schools— and subsequently from children to adults— is just one more way we can prevent cases from spreading overall.

What is your exit strategy?

No amount of mitigation is going to make an immunocompromised individual NOT immunocompromised.

 

[Andrew C]

Many have. This one talks the pros and cons of each

Masked education? The benefits and burdens of wearing face masks in schools during the current Corona pandemic - PMC

Face masks can prevent the spread of the virus SARS-CoV-2, in particular as this spread can occur from people with no symptoms. However, covering the lower half of the face reduces the ability to communicate, interpret, and mimic the expressions of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

End result from this one is if we take steps to overcome some issues with masking, it is better off to do so.

Look I hate masks. My kid doesn't like them either but we adjust. My kid has even learned how to adjust masks without touching them with his hand. He's 13. They're not stupid. We hoped for no masks, but we adjusted. I am hoping middle school can drop sooner than later. Our HS has

What am I missing? This doesn’t answer my question specific to children wearing masks in schools that I can see.

 

[Polkadotdress]

The point is, it isn't the CDC's job to balance competing goods.

They say I should cook beef medium-well. I say beef is more delicious medium-rare. They don't care which is more delicious because their job is ONLY to keep me healthy, so that's the only thing they care about. They don't consider trade-offs.

If there was a magical pill that cost $10,000 and it could lower your risk of heart disease by 0.5%, the CDC would recommend that you take it. It's not their job to weigh the value of the $10,000.

There is a difference between making safety recommendations for an individual (cook your beef, take the $10K pill), and making safety recommendations for the entirety of a population during a very contagious pandemic.

The 2 are nowhere near comparable.

 

[Touchdown]

I’m struggling to find a study that showed mask mandates for children in school provided benefit.

How about this:

According to CDC guidelines, if an unvaccinated student is wearing a mask and gets exposed to a COVID+ student who is also wearing a mask then they don’t need to quarantine (and miss school) for 2 weeks. If either is not wearing a mask, no school for 2 weeks.

The reason there isn’t a direct study of kids in school with masks is because said study would have required to have a control group that would have put kids at risk.

Don’t worry you’ll get your observational studies in 6-12 months thanks to states like Florida.

 

[sullyinMT]

This is a sincere question.

Did you advocate for universal masking of children in school prior to March 2020 to protect them from the flu? If not, why not?

*For children,* COVID presents less risk than the flu. That has been true since the beginning and remains true with Delta.

Of course not, because of the overall risk and unstressed system during a typical flu season. But the current risk shouldn’t be so overtly understated, either:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ng-children-s-hospitals-areas-seeing-n1276238

Thankfully there’s an apparent break in the current wave. But the risk to kids is the opposite of zero. That’s a low number nationally, but higher than its ever been - before schools are really in full swing.

 

[Virtual Toad]

I’m struggling to find a study that showed mask mandates for children in school provided benefit.

The poster asserted that masks had absolutely no benefit, a blanket statement for which I requested supporting data for. Your failure to find a study asserting masks did indeed have a benefit does not fulfill the request for a study showing masks had absolutely no benefit. But cheers anyway.

 

[SammyMF]

The United States is the only developed nation with widespread masking of young children.

This is true. Then again, many other developed nations have particularly stricter mandates than the US does. A good part of the reason we dont is... wait for it... our freedoms. So pick your poison. The masking that we do? Or the stricter mandates that they do?

Assuming it doesnt get really bad again across the whole nation, and if we all do our part to keep it that way, we likely wont see anything more than short term mask requirements. I would hope that as a country we would rather deal with the masks than doing things like limiting travel. Which other countries do. Unfortunately we can have the same people advocating shutting down air travel, mandating no events with large crowds, but absolutely no masks. And its all (!*@ politics.

 

[Andrew C]

The poster asserted that masks had absolutely no benefit, a blanket statement for which I requested supporting data for. Your failure to find a study asserting masks did indeed have a benefit does not fulfill the request for a study showing masks had absolutely no benefit. But cheers anyway.

Well there is data that shows no statistical benefit. So I’m just asking to see the opposite. If it exists.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wait until you hear what the CDC says you're supposed to do to your beef.

How is the CDC incorrect on their recommendations regarding beef preparation?

 

[Virtual Toad]

What is your exit strategy?

No amount of mitigation is going to make an immunocompromised individual NOT immunocompromised.

No, but mitigation can prevent spreading the virus to those who are most vulnerable. Children can contract COVID and spread it to others including adults which continues to put everyone at risk. Experts have repeatedly stated that multi-layer mitigation efforts, including vaccinations, masking, social distancing and remote learning can help us reduce the spread and protect others. But there is a culture resistant to that approach. So in spite of case numbers soaring in schools- and yes that metric absolutely matters- some states including FL have decided to not only abandon those measures, but to actively campaign against them and punish those who try to put mitigations in place. How is this not a problem? How is this even remotely close to doing the best we can do?

 

[peter11435]

Wait until you hear what the CDC says you're supposed to do to your beef.

You can get a perfect medium rare and still reach an internal temperature of 145°

 

[correcaminos]

What am I missing? This doesn’t answer my question specific to children wearing masks in schools that I can see.

That was the whole darn research stating that they were effective but how to deal with the negatives....

 

[Andrew C]

You can get a perfect medium rare and still reach an internal temperature of 145°

I cook everything on a Traeger because I’m lazy and suck and temperature control.

 

[Andrew C]

That was the whole darn research stating that they were effective but how to deal with the negatives....

I didn’t see anything in there about effectiveness on children in a school setting.

 

[Archie123]

If your school district did not provide adequate distance learning options for students who had to quarantine, then your school district is inept.

Besides showing a lack of knowledge about masks you also show a lack of knowledge on schools. Most schools can’t provide any adequate spacing between students in classrooms and just about the only thing they can do when a kid gets covid is to have the entire class switch to virtual learning.

 

[correcaminos]

I didn’t see anything in there about effectiveness on children in a school setting.

• A study of 11 school districts in North Carolina with in-person learning for at least nine weeks during the fall 2020 semester reported minimal school-related transmission even while community transmission was high.38 These schools implemented and strictly adhered to multiple prevention strategies, including universal mask use and physical distancing. Breaches in mask use likely explained the few instances of in-school spread of SARS-CoV-2.
• A study of elementary schools in Utah who implemented layered prevention strategies, such as mask wearing and cohorting, found very low transmission (secondary attack rate 0.7%) in December 2020-January 2021.74
• In a study of K-12 schools in St. Louis with multiple layered prevention strategies in place, only 2% of contacts of COVID-19 cases in the schools tested positive for the virus; this was despite high community transmission rates.76
• A study of Italian schools, which implemented a comprehensive prevention approach that included masking, distancing, cleaning, increased ventilation, and cancellation of extracurricular activities, found that school reopening was not associated with the second wave of COVID-19 in Italy.47
• Similarly, a surveillance study of symptomatic and asymptomatic cases among children in Swiss schools found limited secondary transmission when multiple protective measures were used in schools,56 including mask use, physical distancing, and other interventions.
• Data from surveillance of German school outbreaks detected outbreaks before any prevention strategies were implemented. After schools reopened with prevention strategies in place, the average number of outbreaks per week after the reopening (2.2) was smaller than before the school closed earlier in the pandemic (3.3), suggesting that prevention strategies had some protective effect.51
• A study of private schools that reopened for in-person instruction in Chicago with the implementation of layered prevention strategies found minimal in-school transmission.57

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

So you won't have to read the whole thing.... which does help.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

How is the CDC incorrect on their recommendations regarding beef preparation?

It gives lie to everyone's claim that CDC edict is sacrosanct.

 

[Polkadotdress]

I didn’t see anything in there about effectiveness on children in a school setting.

How about this lengthy report from the CDC, which links to SEVERAL studies globally that “Studies of SARS-CoV-2 transmission in schools that consistently implemented layered prevention strategies have shown success in limiting transmission in schools, even when testing of close contacts has been incomplete.”

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Andrew C]

• A study of 11 school districts in North Carolina with in-person learning for at least nine weeks during the fall 2020 semester reported minimal school-related transmission even while community transmission was high.38 These schools implemented and strictly adhered to multiple prevention strategies, including universal mask use and physical distancing. Breaches in mask use likely explained the few instances of in-school spread of SARS-CoV-2.
• A study of elementary schools in Utah who implemented layered prevention strategies, such as mask wearing and cohorting, found very low transmission (secondary attack rate 0.7%) in December 2020-January 2021.74
• In a study of K-12 schools in St. Louis with multiple layered prevention strategies in place, only 2% of contacts of COVID-19 cases in the schools tested positive for the virus; this was despite high community transmission rates.76
• A study of Italian schools, which implemented a comprehensive prevention approach that included masking, distancing, cleaning, increased ventilation, and cancellation of extracurricular activities, found that school reopening was not associated with the second wave of COVID-19 in Italy.47
• Similarly, a surveillance study of symptomatic and asymptomatic cases among children in Swiss schools found limited secondary transmission when multiple protective measures were used in schools,56 including mask use, physical distancing, and other interventions.
• Data from surveillance of German school outbreaks detected outbreaks before any prevention strategies were implemented. After schools reopened with prevention strategies in place, the average number of outbreaks per week after the reopening (2.2) was smaller than before the school closed earlier in the pandemic (3.3), suggesting that prevention strategies had some protective effect.51
• A study of private schools that reopened for in-person instruction in Chicago with the implementation of layered prevention strategies found minimal in-school transmission.57

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

So you won't have to read the whole thing.... which does help.

But again. None of that answers my question. As your post states..They had a number of preventative measures. Including teachers wearing masks I imagine. One mentions ventilation which aligns the the Georgia study. That’s a different argument.