Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

I’m not aware that any of those are actually required to be resident or citizen of this country.
To attend public schools I believe so, yes. I think one can get an exemption though.

there are plenty of silly people who opt their kids out of vaccines.

There really aren’t plenty. Over 95% of the population is vaccinated against those things. It’s a false narrative and talking point of the anti-vaxx community.

 

[Andrew C]

They are also required for private schools and private day cares. About half of US states also technically require them for homeschooling. College admission, public and private, also often requires them. They are in effect mandatory vaccines and something like an “impossible” 90% of the total population has received these vaccines. Nobody talks about the freedom they lost because they couldn’t chose to risk getting polio.

But not mandatory. Because not everyone has all those vaccines.

 

[hopemax]

I didn’t think he was one of the arrivals you were referring to, since he’s posted nothing political.

We’ve been warned about subtopics that are too far off topic as well and hospital administration and profitability is a politics all of their own. Even if it’s not national politics.

 

[Andrew C]

There really aren’t plenty. Over 95% of the population is vaccinated against those things. It’s a false narrative and talking point of the anti-vaxx community.

5% is too much IMO. But. That’s their choice. They have to deal with what goes along with that.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But not mandatory. Because not everyone has all those vaccines.

They are effectively mandatory. A required COVID-19 vaccination would be no different in its scope.

 

[GoofGoof]

But not mandatory. Because not everyone has all those vaccines.

This is no different than what’s proposed for Covid vaccines there are opt outs for medical and religious reasons.

 

[GoofGoof]

5% is too much IMO. But. That’s their choice. They have to deal with what goes along with that.

I don’t know about the religious exemption and it’s not appropriate to debate here but some people can’t get it for medical reasons.

 

[Andrew C]

They are effectively mandatory. A required COVID-19 vaccination would be no different in its scope.

One can still opt out and deal with the consequences of that. Will it be a huge pain for them? Maybe, depending on how they integrate themselves within society. That’s my only point. The opt out exists.

 

[LittleBuford]

My Canadian wife needed to show proof of several vaccines when she applied for permanent residence in the US, so yes, they are required.

This was my experience of moving to the US also.

Under the immigration laws of the United States, a foreign national who applies for an immigrant visa abroad, or who seeks to adjust status to a permanent resident while in the United States, is required to receive vaccinations to prevent the following diseases:​

• Mumps
• Measles
• Rubella
• Polio
• Tetanus and Diphtheria Toxoids
• Pertussis
• Haemophilus influenzae type B
• Hepatitis B
• Any other vaccine-preventable diseases recommended by the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices

Vaccination Requirements | USCIS

www.uscis.gov

 

[SammyMF]

Posts like this break my heart. I have more sympathy for those who have fallen prey to anti-vax misinformation than I do for those who display this sort of heartless and callous attitude.

And you are quite right. It is %100 heartless and callous. That was the point and its supposed to break your heart. Its completely unfortunate but things among the population in the US are that bad when there is absolutely no reason for them to be. And its our own fault. However, after awhile people just stop trying to reason with a brick wall.

All you have to do is ask someone on the fence about the shots three questions. How many have died from Covid related illnesses? How many have died due to the vaccine? Just the basic numbers nothing else. Of the two which is the greater risk? There are too many that wont say because they already know the answer isnt what they want to hear.

 

[danlb_2000]

Want a very harsh statement? And a totally cynical one?

Different states are handling this all in different ways. Some are being proactive... some say too much at times and they might have a reasonable point. But others insist on doing nothing, and preventing others from doing otherwise, for strictly political reasons. Nobody wants to take things too far nor shut down the whole country a second time. But in the end, as a society as a whole in the US not individuals, choose to take a vaccine or choose not to. Those that chose to, also do everything else needed to protect yourself and your family. Then let Darwin sort it out.

That was not in any way a thoughtful nor considerate statement. And an unabashedly uncaring one. But if a significant portion of the population refuses to do anything. Even protect itself. And they then suffer the consequences then so be it. Back in the day there were a lot of people that still refused to wear seat belts after they were mandated over 'personal freedoms'. And if they died because of it? Too bad for them. One less driver to worry about on the highway.

The problem is, their choice impacts others who have made the right choice, or for one reason or another have no choice.

 

[danlb_2000]

This was my experience of moving to the US also.

Under the immigration laws of the United States, a foreign national who applies for an immigrant visa abroad, or who seeks to adjust status to a permanent resident while in the United States, is required to receive vaccinations to prevent the following diseases:​

• Mumps
• Measles
• Rubella
• Polio
• Tetanus and Diphtheria Toxoids
• Pertussis
• Haemophilus influenzae type B
• Hepatitis B
• Any other vaccine-preventable diseases recommended by the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices

Vaccination Requirements | USCIS

www.uscis.gov

I got into a discussion a while back on this thread about the other vaccines that are required for US citizens and even though technically people in the US aren't required to get vaccines, there is almost not way around it except for certain specific exceptions. As you point point out it's required for immigrants, it's required to go to public school and a lot of states even require it for home schooling.

 

[Casper Gutman]

These are largely assumptions on your part. They serve to vilify and dehumanise those who oppose or fear the vaccines, thereby justifying the “Let them die” line of thinking. It becomes much harder to say such things when you acknowledge the humanity of the people you’re talking about.

They may be assumptions to some extent, but they are backed up by polling and the words and actions of numerous public figures.

We shouldn't dehumanize opponents. However, if certain groups choose to act in ways that are harmful to others, even when presented with true information that counters their beliefs over and over again, we shouldn't try and whitewash the nature of the choices they are making and the reasons they are making those choices. Do you honestly feel the pro-vaxxers are more guilty of villifying and dehumanizing their opponents then the anti?

What is your solution? If vaccine mandates, even by private entities, are prohibited with the support of the vax deniers, and if good faith persuasion has failed repeatedly, at what point does frustrated resignation become the only logical choice?

 

[danlb_2000]

And you are quite right. It is %100 heartless and callous. That was the point and its supposed to break your heart. Its completely unfortunate but things among the population in the US are that bad when there is absolutely no reason for them to be. And its our own fault. However, after awhile people just stop trying to reason with a brick wall.

All you have to do is ask someone on the fence about the shots three questions. How many have died from Covid related illnesses? How many have died due to the vaccine? Just the basic numbers nothing else. Of the two which is the greater risk? There are too many that wont say because they already know the answer isnt what they want to hear.

And, unfortunately there are a lot who will say very few people have died from Covid/I am at almost no risk to die from it, and 1000's of people have died from the vaccine, and thus the vaccine is a greater risk.

 

[Andrew C]

I got into a discussion a while back on this thread about the other vaccines that are required for US citizens and even though technically people in the US aren't required to get vaccines, there is almost not way around it except for certain specific exceptions. As you point point out it's required for immigrants, it's required to go to public school and a lot of states even require it for home schooling.

It is interesting that the flu vaccine has never been a requirement for public schools, even though there are schools here and there that have had to temp close for flu. As far as I know anyways. Although it does lead to deaths, maybe because it’s not the killer that the other illnesses are? Perhaps someone knows.

 

[danlb_2000]

This thread needs some decompression. I posted a photo of our new girl a month ago, here she is now.
View attachment 578353

 

[danlb_2000]

It is interesting that the flu vaccine has never been a requirement for public schools, even though there are schools here and there that have had to temp close for flu. As far as I know anyways. Although it does lead to deaths, maybe because it’s not the killer that the other illnesses are? Perhaps someone knows.

Maybe it's because it's a yearly vaccine, not something is done after one or two doses.

 

[Andrew C]

Maybe it's because it's a yearly vaccine, not something is done after one or two doses.

I get it every year since I had kids. And they get it every year. I have no idea if I got it every year as a child. Hah

 

[LittleBuford]

Do you honestly feel the pro-vaxxers are more guilty of villifying and dehumanizing their opponents then the anti?

Perhaps not, but that's hardly a justification for mirroring their behaviour.

What is your solution? If vaccine mandates, even by private entities, are prohibited with the support of the vax deniers, and if good faith persuasion has failed repeatedly, at what point does frustrated resignation become the only logical choice?

"Frustrated resignation" is not the only logical choice, and it certainly isn't a solution. It achieves nothing except sowing further discord.

As for my solution, I'll defer to the experts:

Vaccine Hesitancy: Talking to Service Members About COVID-19 Vaccines - From the Green Notebook

fromthegreennotebook.com

 

[SammyMF]

The problem is, their choice impacts others who have made the right choice, or for one reason or another have no choice.

That is very true. It impacts myself just as much as others. Which is why its a very cynical statement not any kind of reasonable one. Unfortunately, cynicism seems to be less recognized or acceptable these days.

Think of George Carlin. He was as cynical as they get. One of his best riffs was about him never voting. The usual response is that those that dont vote dont have anything to complain about. However in his view that is backwards. In his view, its the voters who keep nominating idiot candidates, both parties, and putting them into office that have nothing to complain about. Everything that happens is on them. The question is... as a non-partisan was he wrong?