Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[LittleBuford]

It’s surprising to me that churches would treat vaccines as a partisan issue. I know that’s what they’ve become, but they never should have, and I wish religious leaders would do all that they could to depoliticise the topic.

It’s interesting to note how pro-vaccine the Vatican’s messaging has been:

Anti-vax at the Vatican? You might lose your job

ROME (AP) — The Vatican is taking Pope Francis’ pro-vaccine stance very seriously: Any Vatican employee who refuses to get a coronavirus shot without a valid medical reason risks being fired.

apnews.com

 

[ImperfectPixie]

It’s surprising to me that churches would treat vaccines as a partisan issue. I know that’s what they’ve become, but they never should have, and I wish religious leaders would do all that they could to depoliticise the topic.

It's 2021. That "faith" is still sometimes a "God will save me" kind of thing blows my mind and is part of what sours me towards organized religion.

 

[mmascari]

Although FL spiked up very quickly, it isn't like it is the only state where cases are rapidly increasing. In fact, CA has around 6 times the cases now as it did on 6/1. FL hasn't reached 6 times 6/1 yet.

It’s hard to read these as “about the same”.

State	Date	New Cases	7-Day Moving Avg	7-Day Case Rate per 100K
California	Jul 23 2021	7,984	3,950	69.98
California	Jul 22 2021	5,577	3,417	60.54
California	Jul 21 2021	493	3,200	56.71
California	Jul 20 2021	1,390	3,707	65.67
California	Jul 19 2021	2,764	3,836	67.96
California	Jul 18 2021	4,659	3,795	67.25
California	Jul 17 2021	4,783	3,577	63.38
California	Jul 16 2021	4,255	3,360	59.54
California	Jul 15 2021	4,062	3,238	57.38
California	Jul 14 2021	4,036	3,138	55.6
California	Jul 13 2021	2,293	2,936	52.02
California	Jul 12 2021	2,482	2,820	49.97
California	Jul 11 2021	3,132	2,703	47.89
California	Jul 10 2021	3,265	2,544	45.07
California	Jul 9 2021	3,401	2,387	42.3
California	Jul 8 2021	3,359	2,193	38.85
California	Jul 7 2021	2,621	1,990	35.27
California	Jul 6 2021	1,485	1,897	33.61
California	Jul 5 2021	1,660	1,856	32.89
California	Jul 4 2021	2,017	1,779	31.52
California	Jul 3 2021	2,169	1,689	29.92
California	Jul 2 2021	2,040	1,586	28.11
California	Jul 1 2021	1,943	1,478	26.2
California	Jun 30 2021	1,968	1,395	24.72
California	Jun 29 2021	1,198	1,320	23.4
California	Jun 28 2021	1,119	1,266	22.43
California	Jun 27 2021	1,387	1,220	21.63
California	Jun 26 2021	1,451	1,166	20.66
California	Jun 25 2021	1,286	1,114	19.75
California	Jun 24 2021	1,357	1,091	19.34
California	Jun 23 2021	1,447	1,052	18.64
California	Jun 22 2021	816	1,018	18.04
California	Jun 21 2021	801	1,005	17.82
California	Jun 20 2021	1,007	992	17.58
California	Jun 19 2021	1,090	975	17.29
California	Jun 18 2021	1,122	951	16.86
California	Jun 17 2021	1,084	933	16.53
California	Jun 16 2021	1,209	938	16.62
California	Jun 15 2021	728	923	16.35
California	Jun 14 2021	705	914	16.2
California	Jun 13 2021	892	912	16.16
California	Jun 12 2021	922	919	16.29
California	Jun 11 2021	992	941	16.69
California	Jun 10 2021	1,118	955	16.93
California	Jun 9 2021	1,105	981	17.39
California	Jun 8 2021	668	916	16.24
California	Jun 7 2021	689	913	16.17
California	Jun 6 2021	941	908	16.09
California	Jun 5 2021	1,080	905	16.04
California	Jun 4 2021	1,090	891	15.8
California	Jun 3 2021	1,298	883	15.66
California	Jun 2 2021	649	860	15.25
California	Jun 1 2021	644	953	16.89

State	Date	New Cases	7-Day Moving Avg	7-Day Case Rate per 100K
Florida	Jul 23 2021	14,258	10,454	340.73
Florida	Jul 22 2021	13,256	9,630	313.87
Florida	Jul 21 2021	12,647	8,911	290.45
Florida	Jul 20 2021	8,988	8,106	264.21
Florida	Jul 19 2021	8,012	7,740	252.28
Florida	Jul 18 2021	8,010	7,323	238.69
Florida	Jul 17 2021	8,010	6,907	225.12
Florida	Jul 16 2021	8,490	6,490	211.54
Florida	Jul 15 2021	8,225	6,104	198.97
Florida	Jul 14 2021	7,011	5,621	183.21
Florida	Jul 13 2021	6,425	5,178	168.77
Florida	Jul 12 2021	5,095	4,589	149.58
Florida	Jul 11 2021	5,094	4,190	136.57
Florida	Jul 10 2021	5,094	3,791	123.57
Florida	Jul 9 2021	5,790	3,392	110.57
Florida	Jul 8 2021	4,840	2,966	96.69
Florida	Jul 7 2021	3,911	2,687	87.6
Florida	Jul 6 2021	2,303	2,476	80.71
Florida	Jul 5 2021	2,301	2,478	80.79
Florida	Jul 4 2021	2,301	2,337	76.18
Florida	Jul 3 2021	2,301	2,195	71.56
Florida	Jul 2 2021	2,810	2,053	66.93
Florida	Jul 1 2021	2,887	1,839	59.94
Florida	Jun 30 2021	2,432	1,694	55.22
Florida	Jun 29 2021	2,319	1,623	52.9
Florida	Jun 28 2021	1,312	1,561	50.88
Florida	Jun 27 2021	1,308	1,613	52.58
Florida	Jun 26 2021	1,308	1,602	52.21
Florida	Jun 25 2021	1,308	1,590	51.83
Florida	Jun 24 2021	1,872	1,578	51.44
Florida	Jun 23 2021	1,935	1,543	50.3
Florida	Jun 22 2021	1,884	1,499	48.86
Florida	Jun 21 2021	1,679	1,475	48.09
Florida	Jun 20 2021	1,228	1,377	44.89
Florida	Jun 19 2021	1,225	1,361	44.37
Florida	Jun 18 2021	1,225	1,346	43.87
Florida	Jun 17 2021	1,627	1,442	47
Florida	Jun 16 2021	1,626	1,529	49.84
Florida	Jun 15 2021	1,719	1,543	50.31
Florida	Jun 14 2021	991	1,525	49.71
Florida	Jun 13 2021	1,117	1,552	50.61
Florida	Jun 12 2021	1,117	1,760	57.39
Florida	Jun 11 2021	1,898	1,968	64.16
Florida	Jun 10 2021	2,237	2,064	67.3
Florida	Jun 9 2021	1,726	2,007	65.41
Florida	Jun 8 2021	1,590	1,929	62.89
Florida	Jun 7 2021	1,184	1,911	62.31
Florida	Jun 6 2021	2,573	1,951	63.6
Florida	Jun 5 2021	2,572	1,792	58.41
Florida	Jun 4 2021	2,572	1,633	53.24
Florida	Jun 3 2021	1,832	1,593	51.94
Florida	Jun 2 2021	1,185	1,657	54.02
Florida	Jun 1 2021	1,465	1,820	59.34

 

[LittleBuford]

It's 2021. That "faith" is still a "God will save me" kind of thing blows my mind and is part of what sours me towards organized religion.

I think it’s a minority viewpoint, thankfully. Most major religions and their followers acknowledge that medical intervention is a good thing.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Toad if your entire family is vaccinated you have nothing to worry about.

You did your part go enjoy your life!

It’s just been so disheartening, doing the right thing, working from home, seeing our kids take on virtual schooling and being so very brave and optimistic, then having to share the news with our HS sophomore days before Xmas that his favorite teacher had just died from COVID, visiting with grandparents only virtually, lining up without hesitation for vaccinations, masking up to protect others, hoping for an end to the madness after a year and a half and searching everywhere for some semblance of others acting in the interest of the common good, only to see case numbers back to where they were in January. And as I said earlier, so many around us continuing to spread the disease and not making any sacrifices at all.

 

[correcaminos]

It’s surprising to me that churches would treat vaccines as a partisan issue. I know that’s what they’ve become, but they never should have, and I wish religious leaders would do all that they could to depoliticise the topic.

Our country has made certain things political that shouldn't be. Churches have little power to change what is political to be fair. They just have to worry about not breaking rules.

I definitely do not blame churches on this. Mine tries as it can. I'm Catholic and the Pope has made this a human rights issue for us and we follow that. We just subtly guilt people. Like today was all about what have you done to help.... we guilt well

 

[LittleBuford]

Our country has made certain things political that shouldn't be. Churches have little power to change what is political to be fair. They just have to worry about not breaking rules.

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying a church (or any religious institution) would be breaking some sort of rule in the US by actively encouraging its members to get vaccinated?

 

[GoofGoof]

The CDC is only focusing on breakthrough cases that lead to hospitalizations, so we could be undercounting the ones that don't, which is where the drop off in the Israel data is. Israel's data still shows strong protection against severe illness and hospitalization.

The CDC doesn’t have a comprehensive database tracking all breakthrough infections and doesn’t publish those stats publicly. However, we have seen lots of anecdotal evidence from all over the country that the overwhelming majority of cases are in the unvaccinated demographic. Recently someone posted a tweet from the mayor of Orange County and he was reporting that 100% of their infections over the previous 3 days were in unvaccinated people. Just one example, but I have a hard time believing the vaccines from January are only 40% effective now but somehow none of the infections over that recent period in Orange County came in fully vaccinated people.

Maybe this proves out to be true and I’m wrong an/or the various local and state reports claiming almost all infections are still in the unvaccinated group are inaccurate. I find it interesting that some people are so quick to believe one outlier study and so quick to dismiss other evidence to the contrary. All I’m saying is do further studies and find out what the truth is before we start rolling out boosters and claiming the vaccines don’t last 6 months.

 

[correcaminos]

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying a church (or any religious institution) would be breaking some sort of rule in the US by actively encouraging its members to get vaccinated?

Not directly but tax status can be revoked if churches are used to promote partisan politics. They can advise in a non partisan manner but that's it. We had a guest preach at ours and boy did they get in trouble when they turned political. Some are more cautious than others.

That aside what the pope in Vatican City says would not be the same as a priest promoting a certain politician in the US. They do not have to follow same rules.

 

[Disney Analyst]

these people are craaaazy.

 

[danlb_2000]

The CDC doesn’t have a comprehensive database tracking all breakthrough infections and doesn’t publish those stats publicly. However, we have seen lots of anecdotal evidence from all over the country that the overwhelming majority of cases are in the unvaccinated demographic. Recently someone posted a tweet from the mayor of Orange County and he was reporting that 100% of their infections over the previous 3 days were in unvaccinated people. Just one example, but I have a hard time believing the vaccines from January are only 40% effective now but somehow none of the infections over that recent period in Orange County came in fully vaccinated people.

Maybe this proves out to be true and I’m wrong an/or the various local and state reports claiming almost all infections are still in the unvaccinated group are inaccurate. I find it interesting that some people are so quick to believe one outlier study and so quick to dismiss other evidence to the contrary. All I’m saying is do further studies and find out what the truth is before we start rolling out boosters and claiming the vaccines don’t last 6 months.

I have heard a lot of statements that hospitalized people are overwhelmingly unvaccinated, but I don't recall hear that for just infections. Are they asking vaccination status when getting tested, because that would be the only way to know.

I am a skeptical of the Israel data, but it would be foolish to ignore it since it gives us some very important information if true. I am just looking for things that could explain the numbers if they do turn out to be true.

 

[danlb_2000]

these people are craaaazy.

"Vaccine's don't work where there is corruption". What does that even mean!

 

[Heppenheimer]

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying a church (or any religious institution) would be breaking some sort of rule in the US by actively encouraging its members to get vaccinated?

I don't think any church would get into trouble with the government for promoting vaccination..That's actually the kind of thing that the government would smile upon.

Trying to avoid politics in this as much as possible...The more subtle issue is if vaccination would be considered "political" within a church. Some of the more evangelical branches of Protestantism seem to have firmly aligned themselves on a certain side of the politcal aisle, even embracing a certain politician, that to put it lightly, seems to stand for almost everything that Christians should be against. And it is no secret that this certain side of the political aisle is far less enthusiastic about promoting vaccinations than the other. So, in this context, the partisan divide might bleed into the internal workings of the church, so much so that fully embracing and encouraging vaccination might be seen also as a betrayal by joining the "other side" of the political aisle.

 

[LittleBuford]

these people are craaaazy.

This makes me hang my head in shame as a Brit. And to make matters worse, she's spewing this nonsense from in front of the National Gallery, one of the finest art museums in the world. A surreal juxtaposition of the best and worst of humanity.

 

[Virtual Toad]

these people are craaaazy.

If this is who we really are all hope is lost. When this is what we’re fighting against, anyone— including and especially our leaders— who doesn’t actively denounce this sort of behavior is tacitly endorsing it. Half-&&$$ed calls for folks to get vaccinated won’t cut it. We are losing the war, not only against the virus but against ourselves. Shame on those who promote this behavior. Our medical professionals, our teachers, our caregivers should be embraced as heroes, not subjected to this inexcusable idiotic nonsense.

 

[GoofGoof]

I have heard a lot of statements that hospitalized people are overwhelmingly unvaccinated, but I don't recall hear that for just infections. Are they asking vaccination status when getting tested, because that would be the only way to know.

I am a skeptical of the Israel data, but it would be foolish to ignore it since it gives us some very important information if true. I am just looking for things that could explain the numbers if they do turn out to be true.

I’m not advocating that anything should be ignored. I’m just saying let’s run our own studies and compile data and analyze the results before we declare the vaccines ineffective after less than 6 months and we start rolling out boosters. That study is one piece of data (just like the UK study showing 88% efficacy vs delta variant), not the end all be all of the discussion that some people seem to want it to be. We are still trying to get the remaining people vaccinated and this is certainly not helping. Is it possible that officials are purposely exaggerating the lack of infections in fully vaccinated people? Sure, but all we have is the numbers they tell us. I have no way of knowing if it’s real or not.

From the attached:
Caseloads are skyrocketing in Orange County, almost exclusively among unvaccinated people, said Dr. Raul Pino, the local state health officer, and warned numbers could further climb.

Every new infection reported Sunday and the eight additional deaths reported since last week were among people without the COVID-19 vaccine.

COVID-19 cases surge in Orange County among unvaccinated; Demings urges masks indoors

Amid a surge in new COVID-19 infections — powered by the delta variant taking root in unvaccinated people — Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings said Monday vaccinated people should strong…

www.orlandosentinel.com

In addition we have this article (some stats only reference hospitalizations or deaths but there are also stats on cases:

Statistics show the stark risks of not getting vaccinated against COVID-19

Recent figures from states and cities throughout the United States reveal the extent to which the virus is impacting people who are not fully vaccinated.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Angel Ariel]

these people are craaaazy.

OMG.

 

[Sans Souci]

these people are craaaazy.

Who is this woman?

I notice she's got loads of distance between herself and the thronging mass.

 

[seascape]

It is simple. GET VACCINATED OR GET COVID19. The numbers are insane and as I have said over and over, take the shot, wash your hands and social distance. Covid19 is not the only disease out there and we should all use common sense and follow these basic rules. The only people who shouldn't get the shot are those told by their doctor not to take it. The rest of us should. However, I still agree with those who oppose mandating it as I believe in the US Constitution and basic freedoms it provides.

 

[LittleBuford]

Who is this woman?

I notice she's got loads of distance between herself and the thronging mass.

A former nurse, of all things.

Covid vaccine: Speech comparing NHS medics to Nazis condemned

The Royal College of Nursing says the comments at a protest rally were "reprehensible".

www.bbc.com

I remember coming across her name when I watched this interview of her son: