Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyFan32]

By September 13th as federal mandate lifts masks on trains, airplanes and buses (NJ and NY, also PA will most likely lift masks for trains and buses) like NJ Transit and Amtrak.

 

[mmascari]

I'm not misunderstanding "flatten the curve" at all. At the very beginning, Fauci the great and wonderful explained it. He never said it would reduce the number of cases in an outbreak. He said it would spread them out over time so that the peak was lower than it would be without mitigation.

If vaccines weren't available and we went into mitigation forever mode, eventually the same number of people would be infected. In a way it could be worse depending on how long natural immunity lasts. You could possibly spread the infections out too far to where the immunity keeps wearing off and you never reach herd immunity but you mitigate forever which would bring the world economy back to the stone age.

It's a willful misrepresentation of the policy then. A "gotcha" standard based on a partial policy and plan. Like a soundbite used out of context as the entire and only thing.

I agree that if all we did was "flatten the curve" and nothing else, the overall impact would be the same as if we hadn't flattened it at all. All we would have solved for was the extra side effects that occur when the system collapses by not letting it collapse. We save the guy with a heart attack because the hospital isn't overwhelmed.

There were (and are) other things beyond just vaccinate enough people that can and need to be done. That's why I refer to our plan as Vaccinate or Bust. We've almost exclusively put all our eggs in the vaccination basket and not done those other things. At least on a national scale. The "flatten the curve" preventing the system from collapsing was also buying us time to get other solutions so we could reduce the overall impact not just spread it out.

 

[mmascari]

There are reasons that those from the US were able to travel to countries like Canada, the UK, most of Europe, and I believe Australia without showing vaccination records (and vice versa). Significant benefits to doing so. And the plan is to change that not only in the short term, but long term...indefinitely? Ok. We will see how that works out I guess.

Those reasons are presumably based on the high vaccination rates and low community spread in the US for the disease those countries were concerned with. They were not asking for proof of polio vaccine because so many in the US have it and the spread of polio is so low compared to the polio concern in those countries.

All those variables change with COVID. Get the vaccination rate high enough and the spread low enough, and those countries probably will not ask for proof. Today, the numbers are not there, so they're asking. That seems rather reasonable.

 

[Angel Ariel]

f mask mandates as followed don't work then what is the point of having them? All your doing is creating annoyance and health theatre for no gain. It's the same as gloves worn by restaurant servers. Wearing gloves and touching everything under the sun doesn't do anything from a hygiene perspective. If they kept changing gloves, then they would do something but they don't so what's the point of wearing them. I prefer them to not be wearing gloves because then they might actually wash their hands or use hand sanitizer. Plus, I'm pretty sure that bacteria and viruses live for a shorter time on skin than on a latex, nitrile or plastic glove.

If you want to equate masks to health theatre, that's your choice. I'm not getting into that debate.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Hilarious to finally see people with incredible power, advocating for vaccinations. Think of all the wasted time and lives affected/businesses affected/lives lost in the interim. I’m so glad Disney stuck to their guns and kept restrictions up for much longer than A LOT of people wanted.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Those reasons are presumably based on the high vaccination rates and low community spread in the US for the disease those countries were concerned with. They were not asking for proof of polio vaccine because so many in the US have it and the spread of polio is so low compared to the polio concern in those countries.

All those variables change with COVID. Get the vaccination rate high enough and the spread low enough, and those countries probably will not ask for proof. Today, the numbers are not there, so they're asking. That seems rather reasonable.

To provide an example, the last domestic case of polio in the US occurred n the 70s. Other countries could safely assume for the past several decades that US travelers would not import polio.

 

[DisneyCane]

If you want to equate masks to health theatre, that's your choice. I'm not getting into that debate.

I didn't equate masks to health theatre. I said if mask mandates aren't effective based upon the behavior of people than the mandates are nothing more than health theatre.

 

[Polkadotdress]

We are talking about Orange County residents. Orange County was mentioned as one of the 12 that were available.

Osceola County, where I live, is not included in the data that is available. Furthermore, I got my vaccine in Seminole County, which is also not included.

So...there are a lot of gaps in the data.

 

[Trauma]

My father always told me if you are going to do something you have to do it right.

Now I’m not a educated person, clearly most of you here are far more educated than me.

I’ve still been very successful in life though by just using common sense.

Here is what my common sense tells me now.

All of these mitigation’s that we argue in circles about work.

Masks and social distancing - sure this will work if everyone follows the rules at all time. That didn’t happen.

Vaccines - Yes Please!! Unfortunately we can’t get anywhere close to herd immunity for a dumpster fire of reasons.

If we want out of this mess we need to do something anything right.

We must have a change to our system of governance if in the face of the largest public health emergency or our lifetime, the advice of the overwhelming majority of experts is subverted by the vocal minority.

Son , if you are going to do something you have to do it right.

How I miss you Dad, your wisdom was so simple and so true.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think it’s fair to say that England has become the world’s leader in COVID mismanagement. Early on in the pandemic, such recklessness was perhaps understandable, but for a government to be acting this way now—after all we’ve seen, and against the background of skyrocketing cases—is outrageous.

Border officials told not to make Covid checks on green and amber list arrivals

Exclusive: officers in England no longer have to verify whether new arrivals have received a negative Covid test

www.theguardian.com

 

[Disney Experience]

To provide an example, the last domestic case of polio in the US occurred n the 70s. Other countries could safely assume for the past several decades that US travelers would not import polio.

I wish covid had some of the traits of Poliio:
Polio is transmitted fecal-oral and less often oral-oral. The chinese government said Covid only spread from that route, so internationally our guard was lowered a bit. Airborne transmission that covid actually has is much more contagious for first world countries.

Polio’s only host is humans. So no worry of other reservoirs.

Polio is not known for asymptomatic transmission. But it can be transmitted by those with symptoms that are not noticeable. So Polio is a little better than covid in this regards. Covid transmits presymptomatically.

Covid is going to be more difficult to get under control than Polio. But science has advanced in the 50-70 years since (Polio peak in US was late 1950s).

I think it will happen in regions and perhaps the world. But will require high vaccine rates snd likely boosters adapted to the strains that are winning. But it could also become endemic like the flu if we have too many unvaccinated or no border controls

We eliminated smallpox and it was very transmissible by airborne, skin, saliva, blood, etc. So eliminating an airborne virus from existence ( beyond national labs) is possible.

 

[LittleBuford]

@Flugell, I know you disagree with me, but how can you defend what’s happening right now? Nightclubs heaving with unvaccinated people? Airport officials told not to check the status of incoming travellers? There comes a point where political affiliations shouldn’t matter anymore—I would gladly criticise any government, left or right, for such dereliction of duty.

 

[danlb_2000]

If we can get through January numbers with most places not locking down hard, I think we can make it through the latest bump. This is not to suggest that I would ever want to see January numbers again or that I agreed with every decision at that time. I just think we have enough vaccinated to where we won't see those numbers again.

Bet the UK thought the same thing, but their numbers are approaching their January numbers. It probably won't happen here at the national level, but there could be parks of the country where it becomes a problem.

 

[Parker in NYC]

@Flugell, I know you disagree with me, but how can you defend what’s happening right now? Nightclubs heaving with unvaccinated people? Airport officials told not to check the status of incoming travellers? There comes a point where political affiliations shouldn’t matter anymore—I would gladly criticise any government, left or right, for such dereliction of duty.

Who. Is. Surprised. By. Any. Of. This.

Not directing this at you, of course. But people put their heads in the sand very early on. They set their borderlines. I only have dark humor and exhaustion toward and because of people who refuse to acknowledge how absolutely predictable the state of things IS.

I have such little faith in humanity and have since day one of this pandemic. It isn’t gloom and doom. It’s reading and listening and making an academic determination that people are not going to change. And sadder, they revel in and celebrate their inability to change.

 

[LittleBuford]

Who. Is. Surprised. By. Any. Of. This.

Honestly, the situation over in England (I shouldn’t say the UK, because the devolved governments are handling things differently) has surprised me somewhat. I really did expect better. In retrospect, I see I was being naive.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Honestly, the situation over in England (I shouldn’t say the UK, because the devolved governments are handling things differently) has surprised me somewhat. I really did expect better. In retrospect, I realise I was naive.

Brexit taught us that anything is possible.

 

[jpinkc]

I'm fortunate in that neither of my boys would be considered high risk.

But you see what I'm driving at...the state head of education put parents in a nearly impossible spot...sort of like a particular governor did to the counties where the theme parks we all love are located.

I'm praying that if things get hairy here again (I'm in MA, and so far we're not doing TOO badly, but cases are on the rise again), that our governor won't fall into the trap of making political choices over health-driven ones.

Unfortunately I live in Missouri where like Florida if I understand what I have read correctly the Governors have stripped away from local municipalities the ability to Mandate Masks or Lockdowns. In my own community the Mayor can only beg local businesses to ask people to wear masks indoors now. And is doing so, but nobody wants to listen.....

 

[LittleBuford]

Brexit taught us that anything is possible.

That was political. I thought we’d do better handling a public health crisis.

As I said, I was naive, perhaps even stupid.

 

[Trauma]

Who. Is. Surprised. By. Any. Of. This.

Not directing this at you, of course. But people put their heads in the sand very early on. They set their borderlines. I only have dark humor and exhaustion toward and because of people who refuse to acknowledge how absolutely predictable the state of things IS.

I have such little faith in humanity and have since day one of this pandemic. It isn’t gloom and doom. It’s reading and listening and making an academic determination that people are not going to change. And sadder, they revel in and celebrate their inability to change.

Agreed.

It’s time to accept we have failed.

Maybe not on a individual level but on a societal one.

95+ whatever percent - of deaths in the states are COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE

This is madness.

 

[Parker in NYC]

That was political. I thought we’d do better handling a public health crisis.

As I said, I was naive, perhaps even stupid.

When someone told me on this very forum ON DAY ONE that it was political of me to ask about COVID, that’s all I needed to know. Color me surprised that they were a reflection of not just the US but the world.