Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

It’s no longer just a failure of individuals to get the vaccine. We have state governments basically going anti-vax.

As I've said in a prior post, I think that any healthcare worker with direct patient contact who doesn't get vaccinated is making a very dumb decision. That said, although I don't understand the two year wait, is it really unreasonable to not allow people to be required to take something that isn't fully approved by the FDA? I know (and have promoted the fact) that the vaccines are safe and that the EUA wouldn't have been approved without safety data. However, if people can be required to take something I think it is reasonable that they only be required to take things that have been approved by the agency tasked with approving things for use.

It's kind of like the FAA with new airplane models. They get approved for test flights and even for ferry flights when they are not yet certified for commercial use. I'd have no issue flying on a ferry flight after production because I know that the authority for those flights wouldn't be granted if it was likely that the plane would fall out of the sky. However, I don't think I should be forced to fly on a ferry flight until the model is fully certified (unless my job was a ferry pilot or test pilot which kind of requires doing so or I don't really have a job).

 

[DisneyCane]

It certainly does. I'm glad to see that most (if not all) of our supermarkets have said they'll ask customers and staff to continue wearing masks despite the law relaxations, and a lot of businesses have followed suit.

The massive coffee chain that is Costa Coffee have however said they're not going to ask anyone to mask, which I'm quite happy to see hasn't gone down too well.

I've said it before in this thread but I'll keep wearing my mask for a while yet - it's two weeks until I can get my second jab but longer for all of those younger than myself, so I can see me keeping mine on well into September.

I really don't understand the focus on masks in situations like grocery stores. A shopping trip to a grocery store wasn't high risk before the vaccines were available and before any mitigation measures were implemented. At a grocery store, you don't spend very much time close to anybody and most are pretty well ventilated. There were studies from very early on in China and Italy that indicated this fact. It's similar to early studies that showed that outdoor situations were very low risk but it took over a year for the CDC here to acknowledge the science.

It's not like a ride queue at WDW where you will be near the same strangers for 30 minutes or more and many areas are cramped and weren't designed with ventilation in mind.

 

[havoc315]

As I've said in a prior post, I think that any healthcare worker with direct patient contact who doesn't get vaccinated is making a very dumb decision. That said, although I don't understand the two year wait, is it really unreasonable to not allow people to be required to take something that isn't fully approved by the FDA? I know (and have promoted the fact) that the vaccines are safe and that the EUA wouldn't have been approved without safety data. However, if people can be required to take something I think it is reasonable that they only be required to take things that have been approved by the agency tasked with approving things for use.

It's kind of like the FAA with new airplane models. They get approved for test flights and even for ferry flights when they are not yet certified for commercial use. I'd have no issue flying on a ferry flight after production because I know that the authority for those flights wouldn't be granted if it was likely that the plane would fall out of the sky. However, I don't think I should be forced to fly on a ferry flight until the model is fully certified (unless my job was a ferry pilot or test pilot which kind of requires doing so or I don't really have a job).

Saying that a state owned hospital may not require their employees to be vaccinated is absolute insanity.

Sure… individuals can have a choice as to whether they want to take the vaccine. But not if they want to simultaneously hold patient-contact employment.

 

[JoeCamel]

I really don't understand the focus on masks in situations like grocery stores. A shopping trip to a grocery store wasn't high risk before the vaccines were available and before any mitigation measures were implemented. At a grocery store, you don't spend very much time close to anybody and most are pretty well ventilated. There were studies from very early on in China and Italy that indicated this fact. It's similar to early studies that showed that outdoor situations were very low risk but it took over a year for the CDC here to acknowledge the science.

It's not like a ride queue at WDW where you will be near the same strangers for 30 minutes or more and many areas are cramped and weren't designed with ventilation in mind.

How much contact does delta need?

 

[DisneyFan32]

It’s no longer just a failure of individuals to get the vaccine. We have state governments basically going anti-vax.

We have to wait until two years as FDA approval COVID-19 vaccines? That's stinks! Now we are getting major outbreaks every years....

 

[Polkadotdress]

It’s no longer just a failure of individuals to get the vaccine. We have state governments basically going anti-vax.

And, Arizona has also recently joined the club, with their ruling re: schools, vaccinations, and covid exposure quarantines.

Governor calls Tucson school district's COVID quarantine policy unlawful

Gov. Ducey's office says school districts are not legally permitted to require students exposed to COVID-19 to quarantine.

tucson.com

An insightful quote from the article:
Specifically, the practice of instituting a mandatory 14-day quarantine for unvaccinated students who have a COVID-19 exposure, but exempting vaccinated students, is contrary to Laws 2021, Chapter 404, Sec. 12, which states, ‘A school district or charter school may not require a student or teacher to receive a vaccine for COVID-19 or to wear a face covering to participate in in-person instruction.'

 

[DisneyFan32]

By September 13th, I guess federal guidelines will lift indoor masks for trains and buses (at least in NJ, NY, and PA), but maybe airplanes or cruises I don't know.

 

[DisneyCane]

How much contact does delta need?

I don't know exactly but, as far as I'm aware, the CDC hasn't issued any updated guidance about high risk situations with the emergence of Delta.

The higher level of transmissibility could mean that it is more likely to transmit under the same high risk conditions but doesn't bring new situations into the fold of being high risk. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, with no information to the contrary, Delta doesn't infect people 15 feet away, it is just more likely to infect somebody 3 feet away. Perhaps it does it in less time due to the higher viral load but if it is five minutes instead of 15 minutes that is high risk, you still don't spend five minutes close to the same stranger at a grocery store.

 

[DisneyCane]

By September 13th, I guess federal guidelines will lift indoor masks for trains and buses (at least in NJ, NY, and PA), but maybe airplanes or cruises I don't know.

I fully expect this to be extended unless the cases get to a near zero level by September. Masks are a big deal to the people currently in charge even though we were told that we would only have to wear them until April 30th, "not forever." Since that expectation was set prior to being in charge, I expect the reality of the Federal mandate will be closer to "forever" than 4/30/21.

 

[DisneyCane]

Saying that a state owned hospital may not require their employees to be vaccinated is absolute insanity.

Sure… individuals can have a choice as to whether they want to take the vaccine. But not if they want to simultaneously hold patient-contact employment.

Why can't they be given the option to be masked (with N95) all of the time if they are not vaccinated? With the flu shot (note to the easily triggered I am not comparing COVID to the flu), at every hospital my wife has worked at they are given the choice between get the flu shot or wear a mask all the time during flu season.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I fully expect this to be extended unless the cases get to a near zero level by September. Masks are a big deal to the people currently in charge even though we were told that we would only have to wear them until April 30th, "not forever." Since that expectation was set prior to being in charge, I expect the reality of the Federal mandate will be closer to "forever" than 4/30/21.

You expecting federal mandate will be longer until years to come or they will expire this September? I don't want to wear mask on the train forever.....

 

[DisneyCane]

You expecting federal mandate will be longer until years to come or they will expire this September? I don't want to wear mask on the train forever.....

I'm with you (though for me it is more on airplanes than trains) but I would be shocked if it doesn't get extended at least until the end of the year.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I'm with you (though for me it is more on airplanes than trains) but I would be shocked if it doesn't get extended at least until the end of the year.

I guess federal mandate will lift indoor masks on trains first by September then buses by October, as the airplanes will be last ones by end of the year.

 

[nickys]

Simply put, herd immunity is when enough people are immune that it becomes statistically unlikely for outbreaks to occur. Yes, people can catch it twice, but that is still a rare occurrence with COVID. Re-infection simply makes it a little harder to get to herd immunity.

I wouldn’t say rare exactly. Here in the U.K. the estimate appears to be about 20% of the 50K daily cases are in double vaccinated people.
Edit: misread that comment. Reports of people getting it twice aren’t that uncommon anymore, but you’re correct in that they make up a very small percentage. Something like 15 in 10k.

So all legal restrictikns lifted in the uk - will let you all know if we are all still standing in a few weeks…

In England, not the U.K.

Many restrictions have been lifted here in Scotland but not all - nightclubs still shut, groups of 10 can meet at home, 15 in a public indoor space, masks still legally required in shops, public transport and hospitality venues, capacity limits still in place on outdoor and indoor venues. Unless it’s football related, of course.

Wales aren’t lifting all restrictions and Northern Ireland will lift some next week.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Are people here still calling everyone who was right about everything "doom and gloomers?"

Welcome to the reality we saw coming several weeks ago.

Get your vaccine. Wear your mask in indoor crowded places (preferably better than a cloth mask.) Quit rushing to pretend everything is fine because you wish it were. Quit catering to the deniers and the whiners. Learn to endure hardship as a means of self-preservation, as well as a patriotic duty, and put that above your own personal wants.

Continue living life, going places, doing things - but more safely - depending on where you live.

America needs to stop being stupid, voting for stupid, and elevating stupid as if it were on equal footing with facts and science.

Florida is a mess.

Pay attention to the UK and Israel and *learn* **before** it happens here instead of standing on the train tracks watching it come at you and just standing there like a deer in the headlights.

The anti-vaxxers were/are wrong. The deniers were/are wrong. The anti-vax passporters were/are wrong. The CDC was wrong to cave in to outside pressure.

 

[lisa12000]

I wouldn’t say rare exactly. Here in the U.K. the estimate appears to be about 20% of the 50K daily cases are in double vaccinated people.
Edit: misread that comment. Reports of people getting it twice aren’t that uncommon anymore, but you’re correct in that they make up a very small percentage. Something like 15 in 10k.

In England, not the U.K.

Many restrictions have been lifted here in Scotland but not all - nightclubs still shut, groups of 10 can meet at home, 15 in a public indoor space, masks still legally required in shops, public transport and hospitality venues, capacity limits still in place on outdoor and indoor venues. Unless it’s football related, of course.

Wales aren’t lifting all restrictions and Northern Ireland will lift some next week.

Oops apologies of course you are correct! Blame my tired heat overpowered brain last night!

 

[DisneyCane]

Are people here still calling everyone who was right about everything "doom and gloomers?"

Welcome to the reality we saw coming several weeks ago.

Get your vaccine. Wear your mask in indoor crowded places (preferably better than a cloth mask.) Quit rushing to pretend everything is fine because you wish it were. Quit catering to the deniers and the whiners. Learn to endure hardship as a means of self-preservation, as well as a patriotic duty, and put that above your own personal wants.

Continue living life, going places, doing things - but more safely - depending on where you live.

America needs to stop being stupid, voting for stupid, and elevating stupid as if it were on equal footing with facts and science.

Florida is a mess.

Pay attention to the UK and Israel and *learn* **before** it happens here instead of standing on the train tracks watching it come at you and just standing there like a deer in the headlights.

The anti-vaxxers were/are wrong. The deniers were/are wrong. The anti-vax passporters were/are wrong. The CDC was wrong to cave in to outside pressure.

If the current problems are 99% with people who have chosen not to be vaccinated why do I need to do any of what you say? I'm fully vaccinated so, for me, everything is fine.

Look at the data Orange County keeps putting out. Even the "cases" are over 95% unvaccinated people. There are many things that can't be done in a way that you would consider to be "more safely" and still actually be the same thing.

Your doom and gloom reality is that people who aren't vaccinated are catching COVID and some are ending up in the hospital and some are dying. People who are fully vaccinated are rarely catching COVID, very rarely ending up in the hospital and extremely rarely ending up dying (and doing so on a level that is irrelevant in the scheme of dying from any cause).



Florida isn't "a mess." There are a lot of positive test results among unvaccinated people who are mostly in the younger, low risk demographic. Hospitals aren't overflowing or having difficulty handling the patient load, people aren't dropping dead in hallways. The doom and gloomers define everything based on "the numbers" but focus on the wrong ones.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Florida isn't "a mess." There are a lot of positive test results among unvaccinated people who are mostly in the younger, low risk demographic. Hospitals aren't overflowing or having difficulty handling the patient load, people aren't dropping dead in hallways. The doom and gloomers define everything based on "the numbers" but focus on the wrong ones.

While youbare right that this isn’t currently a problem, the doctors and epidemiologists there do seem to be concerned about the rising hospitalization rates.

Florida COVID hospitalizations rising again after decline

Florida’s COVID-19 hospitalization numbers are again increasing, ending months of steady decline that began when widespread vaccinations became available.

www.wfla.com

Florida virus hospitalizations again rising after a decline

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — Florida's COVID-19 hospitalization numbers are again increasing, ending months of steady decline that began when widespread vaccinations became available and leaving doctors and epidemiologists worried as the more infectious delta variant spreads.

apnews.com

 

[havoc315]

Why can't they be given the option to be masked (with N95) all of the time if they are not vaccinated? With the flu shot (note to the easily triggered I am not comparing COVID to the flu), at every hospital my wife has worked at they are given the choice between get the flu shot or wear a mask all the time during flu season.

Because masks are not 100% (and neither are vaccines). Talking about close patient contact, a hospital should be allowed to require infection control measures -- including vaccination -- among their staff.

 

[Lilofan]

While youbare right that this isn’t currently a problem, the doctors and epidemiologists there do seem to be concerned about the rising hospitalization rates.

Florida COVID hospitalizations rising again after decline

Florida’s COVID-19 hospitalization numbers are again increasing, ending months of steady decline that began when widespread vaccinations became available.

www.wfla.com

Florida virus hospitalizations again rising after a decline

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — Florida's COVID-19 hospitalization numbers are again increasing, ending months of steady decline that began when widespread vaccinations became available and leaving doctors and epidemiologists worried as the more infectious delta variant spreads.

apnews.com

The truth hits home when you are your loved one recently has to go to the hospital ER and are laid out on a hospital bed in a crowded hallway with many other patients for many hours at a time because of beyond overflowing capacity.