Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Angel Ariel]

I just can't imagine that Disney wants the 50th to be celebrated with masks. I mean...... the 50th anniversary is going to get a TON of press and will be a promotional goldmine for years. Do they really want all the pictures etc. to have people masked and distanced? I'm with you, no masks my Oct. 1st. How long before that? Who the heck knows.

The idea that potential future marketing should play a part in this decision is just...yeah, no. If disney wants maskless photos for posterity, they have the resources to put together photo shoots (closed set, vaccines required if desired, etc) to do that. It doesn’t require a change in park policy to do that.

 

[havoc315]

I see what you are saying. And I understand Disney will be conservative. But with us reaching the point where even public health experts like Dr. Fauci and Scott Gottlieb are saying that we are approaching the point where indoor mask mandates should start going away, I just am confident that the situation by October is going to be dramatically different than it is today. I've said many times in this thread that I remain an optimist. Even though vaccination rates have slowed, I believe we're ultimately going to do a good job getting people vaccinated, and I believe that over the next few weeks we're going to see case and death numbers plummet. I am confident that we will avoid significant spikes again in the fall.

That is all based on my gut feeling and my optimism. I could be totally wrong. But that's what I think as of today.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I certainly could see indoor masking being gone by October. Just could also see it sticking around.

The thing with masking -- From WDW's perspective, it is the one thing that really doesn't inhibit their profits much. They can't operate at 100% capacity without social distancing. They COULD operate at 100% capacity with masks. And indoor masking, especially if limited to "crowded" situations, (Example, you don't need a mask walking around the hallway of your resort, but you do need a mask when sitting in a jam packed indoor queue), really is a pretty minimal burden on guests.
If Covid is truly gone by October, I could certainly see indoor masking disappearing.
If Covid is still around, I could see step by step relaxation of masking. Much like they have started to relax outdoors but haven't yet eliminated outdoor masking.

 

[AmesTARDIS]

I wish some of the "freedom" crowd here would read what some of the founding fathers had to say about freedom's necessary relation to civic virtue.

It is sadly disappointing to me to see the many ways words like "freedom" and "rights" have been misused.

 

[mmascari]

No. Vaccines are open to everyone 16+ and all states are supposed to have walk in vaccines where no appointment is necessary.

Vaccine availability isn't the same thing as having access to it.

Both of these are definitely true.

My wife has patients that don't speak English (or very little) and don't speak Spanish either. Our state sites advertise support for other languages, but when actually trying to use them, they fall very short. She's been talking to them about the poor site information for weeks. It looks like they do offer some better support, but they're not communicating how correctly, wrong phone numbers, poor phone option trees. Which I suppose is a better failure mode then not actually having the support at all. In the last few days, they finally seem to be figuring it out.

Side note, was in a CVS yesterday and they had a desk up front to check appointments and seemed to be taking walk in people too. Was with my kid, 15 but they would have so tried to lie if they thought it would work to get vaccinated.

 

[Christi22222]

So what’s the explanation though?

So during this pandemic, my husband's job relocated us to Midland, Texas from the front range of Colorado. We spend time in both places and have since October 2020. It's been super interesting to compare and contrast. Of course, I recognize Texas is a HUGE and diverse state, and my experiences are simply anecdotal. However, two obvious reasons jump out at me for why Texas is holding their own, despite some strong vaccine averseness and lifted mandates for protection protocols. First, spring weather obviously came much earlier in Texas than Colorado. So there has been a lot of outdoor recreation, and there are a lot of outdoor patios to eat, drink and socialize. Just that ability to live so much of life outdoors is a huge benefit when it comes to Covid. Second, there is a surprisingly high amount of mask wearing still going on. Certainly not at levels like before the mandates were lifted. But a significant amount. And only once have I been treated poorly for wearing a mask by a non-mask wearer. Many of the national chains are still requiring masks for their employees and in their locations. Some folks ignore that. Many don't. Combine *some* mask wearing with *some* significant vaccination levels and throw in a lot of outdoor activity, and I think that probably helped out the situation. My sincere hope is that as it gets hotter and we move into indoor A/C season, the vaccination levels alone are high enough to prevent a surge.

 

[danlb_2000]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I certainly could see indoor masking being gone by October. Just could also see it sticking around.

The thing with masking -- From WDW's perspective, it is the one thing that really doesn't inhibit their profits much. They can't operate at 100% capacity without social distancing. They COULD operate at 100% capacity with masks. And indoor masking, especially if limited to "crowded" situations, (Example, you don't need a mask walking around the hallway of your resort, but you do need a mask when sitting in a jam packed indoor queue), really is a pretty minimal burden on guests.
If Covid is truly gone by October, I could certainly see indoor masking disappearing.
If Covid is still around, I could see step by step relaxation of masking. Much like they have started to relax outdoors but haven't yet eliminated outdoor masking.

How are you defining "still around"?

 

[correcaminos]

So what’s the explanation though?

Summer weather helps. Both proven to make it harder to transmit and people can gather outdoors safely too.

There is a balance to be made. The post was deleted but someone on this forum pretty much lit into me because I dared to suggest that outdoor masks even at Disney can go. That is equally not as okay as making fun of someone who does continue to mask outside. I feel like I haven't been consistent as some but I try to follow the science - which changes.

Some on both extremes have been lousy at adjusting when needed. This will be hard to transition back for some.

 

[Horizons '83]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I certainly could see indoor masking being gone by October. Just could also see it sticking around.

The thing with masking -- From WDW's perspective, it is the one thing that really doesn't inhibit their profits much. They can't operate at 100% capacity without social distancing. They COULD operate at 100% capacity with masks. And indoor masking, especially if limited to "crowded" situations, (Example, you don't need a mask walking around the hallway of your resort, but you do need a mask when sitting in a jam packed indoor queue), really is a pretty minimal burden on guests.
If Covid is truly gone by October, I could certainly see indoor masking disappearing.
If Covid is still around, I could see step by step relaxation of masking. Much like they have started to relax outdoors but haven't yet eliminated outdoor masking.

I feel like this is not a realistic approach to thinking of Covid. It will most likely never be gone, so at what level are we as a society/country comfortable with to getting back to "normal". I think there really hasn't been a target set by anyone really, which is part of many folks frustration.

 

[havoc315]

How are you defining "still around"?

I've long said we should emulate success. So follow what Israel is doing. They are at 0.5 cases per 100,000, and they still require indoor masking. They lifted all outdoor masking. They are still requiring vaccine passports, but that's starting to loosen now.

 

[havoc315]

I feel like this is not a realistic approach to thinking of Covid. It will most likely never be gone,

Follow Israel as an example. I'm not saying 0 cases per week. But only trivial levels of disease that can easily be contact traced and contained.
Is there any reason to believe we can't do as well as Israel? Is American Covid different than Israeli Covid? They are down to under 0.5 cases per 100,000 -- and they are still dropping. Yesterday, they had 7 cases. The American equivalent would be about 200 cases per day.

so at what level are we as a society/country comfortable with to getting back to "normal". I think there really hasn't been a target set by anyone really, which is part of many folks frustration.

We should aim for the same target as Israel.

 

[correcaminos]

Again my perspective is probably skewed as I’m from the U.K. so please don’t jump down my throat!
There has been a lot of talk about vaccine hesitancy so I feel that people are looking for reasons to persuade/ encourage the ones who are not fundamentally against the vaccine to get on with it!

Well, maybe if there was a known date to the end of the free vaccine?
The government/ state (not certain how it works in the USA) announced everyone over the age of 16 has now had 3 (pick a number) months to have a free vaccine so in 28 days this will no longer be available and people wishing to have a vaccine after this point will be charged. (Pick an amount.)
If you have booked or received your first dose by this point all future vaccines, including future boosters will be administered free of charge.

Also if there was a medical condition, verified by a medical doctor, preventing you being vaccinated during the “free” window, no charge will be made and all future vaccine boosters will again be administered at no cost. Under 16 will continue to have free vaccines for the foreseeable future. People attaining the age of 16?, who become eligible to make their own decisions, will have 2 months after their birthday to join the free vaccination group.

No idea if this would help, or even be possible but it may encourage the “I’ll get round to it eventually” group.

Thoughts? Please be gentle though!

Sorry, but no. Often those who have issues getting to a vaccine would be the last to afford paying for it. Second the ones who don't want a vaccine will be driven from, not to. I get your point, but handing out incentives will go further here than punishments. Just how the average American mind works. Nothing I said was in a harsh tone, so please take it this way.

 

[mmascari]

Fauci disagrees. He seems to be discussing it.

Fauci says indoor mask guidance should ‘start being more liberal.’ (Published 2021)

The comments from President Biden’s chief medical adviser came just two days after the C.D.C. belatedly highlighted the danger of airborne transmission.

www.nytimes.com

There's a lot more nuance in that article than the headline would indicate.

Dr. Fauci, President Biden’s chief medical adviser for the pandemic, said that as vaccinations climb, “we do need to start being more liberal” in terms of rules for wearing masks indoors, though he noted that the nation was still averaging about 43,000 cases of the virus daily. “We’ve got to get it much, much lower than that,” he said.

Dr. Fauci’s comments on Sunday came in response to a question about comments that Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former head of the Food and Drug Administration, made last week on CNBC. Dr. Gottlieb said that relaxing indoor mask mandates now — “especially if you’re in environments where you know you have a high level of vaccination” — would give public health officials “the credibility to implement them” again in the fall or winter if cases surge.

Dr. Fauci, asked by George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s Sunday program “This Week” whether he agreed, said: “I think so, and I think you’re going to probably be seeing that as we go along, and as more people get vaccinated.”

“The C.D.C. will be, almost in real time, George, updating their recommendations and their guidelines,” Dr. Fauci continued. “But yes, we do need to start being more liberal as we get more people vaccinated.”

There's policy comments from Jeffrey Zients later in the article then too. Which lines up with my belief that the policy team should be setting goals not the science team. The science team should be telling us how we get to whatever those policy goals are.


Combined, the comments seem to indicate, that yes we should be removing different mitigation efforts over time, it's not an all at once at the end, and that we're not quite at the level we should be at yet. I don't think this is a surprise to anyone. I also don't think these comments reflect a headline of "drop them all now, we're done with mitigations" that some would like them to mean. A headline like that get's way more clicks though.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I see what you are saying. And I understand Disney will be conservative. But with us reaching the point where even public health experts like Dr. Fauci and Scott Gottlieb are saying that we are approaching the point where indoor mask mandates should start going away, I just am confident that the situation by October is going to be dramatically different than it is today. I've said many times in this thread that I remain an optimist. Even though vaccination rates have slowed, I believe we're ultimately going to do a good job getting people vaccinated, and I believe that over the next few weeks we're going to see case and death numbers plummet. I am confident that we will avoid significant spikes again in the fall.

That is all based on my gut feeling and my optimism. I could be totally wrong. But that's what I think as of today.

Yeah no more surges or spikes by fall. Then Thanksgiving and Christmas will be MUCH better than last year, as we will be back to normal with no masks by then!

 

[GoofGoof]

There's a lot more nuance in that article than the headline would indicate.





There's policy comments from Jeffrey Zients later in the article then too. Which lines up with my belief that the policy team should be setting goals not the science team. The science team should be telling us how we get to whatever those policy goals are.


Combined, the comments seem to indicate, that yes we should be removing different mitigation efforts over time, it's not an all at once at the end, and that we're not quite at the level we should be at yet. I don't think this is a surprise to anyone. I also don't think these comments reflect a headline of "drop them all now, we're done with mitigations" that some would like them to mean. A headline like that get's way more clicks though.

I think it could be meaningful or it could be nothing. Historically speaking Fauci has made some comments on the Sunday morning rounds that tipped the hand of the administration‘s plans on a change. He has also made plenty of comments coming from his personal opinion that didn’t mean much as far as actual changes. What caught my attention was his reference to a potential CDC change coming soon. That could be a tipping of the hand...could be. Not getting overly optimistic, but something to watch for.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is there any reason to believe we can't do as well as Israel?

It’s amazing how often doing things that have been done is considered impossible for Americans, weirdly it seems to come from many who would probably be described as exceptionalists.

 

[Touchdown]

I think it could be meaningful or it could be nothing. Historically speaking Fauci has made some comments on the Sunday morning rounds that tipped the hand of the administration‘s plans on a change. He has also made plenty of comments coming from his personal opinion that didn’t mean much as far as actual changes. What caught my attention was his reference to a potential CDC change coming soon. That could be a tipping of the hand...could be. Not getting overly optimistic, but something to watch for.

If this holds for a week or two I think CDC will reduce restrictions, because we will have less new cases than the first wave (when we weren’t testing enough.)

 

[havoc315]

I think it could be meaningful or it could be nothing. Historically speaking Fauci has made some comments on the Sunday morning rounds that tipped the hand of the administration‘s plans on a change. He has also made plenty of comments coming from his personal opinion that didn’t mean much as far as actual changes. What caught my attention was his reference to a potential CDC change coming soon. That could be a tipping of the hand...could be. Not getting overly optimistic, but something to watch for.

The pattern has largely become Fauci hints at upcoming change, but then the change is very incremental and disappoints many people.

His first hint at a change in guidelines for those that were vaccinated -- High expectations that vaccinated people could lift most restrictions -- Became, "it's now safe to have small gatherings with other fully vaccinated people, or a small unvaccinated low risk pod"

First hint about change to outdoor masking guidelines -- became continue to wear masks outdoors in crowded areas. But can dine outdoors without masks with vaccinated people, don't need masks when alone outdoors, small private outdoor gatherings, etc.

They literally just extended the requirement for masks on Federal regulated transportation (airlines) until September. There may be some incremental indoor masking guidelines changed soon, but nothing that gets rid of masks in indoor public gathering places.

 

[DisneyFan32]

The pattern has largely become Fauci hints at upcoming change, but then the change is very incremental and disappoints many people.

His first hint at a change in guidelines for those that were vaccinated -- High expectations that vaccinated people could lift most restrictions -- Became, "it's now safe to have small gatherings with other fully vaccinated people, or a small unvaccinated low risk pod"

First hint about change to outdoor masking guidelines -- became continue to wear masks outdoors in crowded areas. But can dine outdoors without masks with vaccinated people, don't need masks when alone outdoors, small private outdoor gatherings, etc.

They literally just extended the requirement for masks on Federal regulated transportation (airlines) until September. There may be some incremental indoor masking guidelines changed soon, but nothing that gets rid of masks in indoor public gathering places.

So by August or September I will not gonna wear masks anymore both outdoors and indoors soon?

 

[havoc315]

It’s amazing how often doing things that have been done is considered impossible for Americans, weirdly it seems to come from many who would probably be described as exceptionalists.

The contradictions are incredible. "We should have incentives for vaccination. There should be a goal at which point mitigation should stop!"

Ok -- when Covid is essentially gone, reduced to a trivial level that can be easily contact traced

"That's not realistic! It can't be done! It needs to be a realistic goal!"

Well... Israel can do it.

"forget having goals, we should just lift all mitigation because... umm, freedom stuff"

 

[mmascari]

Keep in mind that, so far, the vaccines have been effective against all of the variants that have popped up. It is certainly possible that the virus mutates into a variant that isn't controlled by the vaccine. But it's also possible that even if we continue to have variants, the vaccine will work just fine against them. Variants rendering vaccines ineffective isn't a guarantee, even if we don't get the percentage of vaccinations we would like.

I agree. It’s very low risk and community spread is dropping every day so getting lower. The less people spreading the virus the less chance of breakthrough infection too.

It's not just "possible" that the virus will mutate, or that we'll have variants. Both of those are definitive. The virus WILL mutate, we WILL have variants. Most of those mutations and variants will be less competitive than the dominate strain circulating and will disappear, we'll never even hear about them, they'll just disappear.

In the shorter term, variants the vaccine is less effective against definitely are NOT a guarantee, as you said. It's like the virus is playing the lottery and it keeps losing, which is good for us. Get community spread low enough, and there will not be enough lottery tickets for the virus to ever win. That's the concern with not getting spread low enough if we don't vaccinate enough, it's like we're handing out free scratch offs to the virus. Hand out enough of them, and it's chances of winning increase. Vaccinate enough and this problem goes away.

I don't worry about a variant getting past the vaccine on any large scale today. I worry about us taking actions that encourage that outcome over time. Just like handing out antibiotics like candy has left us with antibiotic resistant bacteria to deal with. Or, lice resistant to the tradition chemical remedies.