Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ColeTrain04]

I’m not saying that people should ignore a private businesses rules because of once the CDC lifts restrictions for vaccinated people.

 

[Tom P.]

More good news, which I will insist on continuing to inject into this thread.

 

[GoofGoof]

You’re missing the point. It wouldn’t be an immediate change for business.Businesses can enforce whatever policies they want. But it would create incentive for a lot more vaccinations which would lead to businesses changing their rules faster because of the higher vaccination percentage

That makes no sense. Telling people they no longer have to wear a mask anywhere once vaccinated will make it exceedingly difficult for a business to enforce a mask rule. People will show up and argue they no longer need a mask.

 

[drizgirl]

Because there are a good number of people who lie.

Sure. But at some point we're going to have to hold our collective breaths and do it. As long as everyone is still required to mask up, regardless of vaccine status, you're going to have hold outs. Maybe enough to hold us back from herd immunity.

We can only protect people from themselves for so long. I actually think there will be a minor revolt at some point and vaccinated people will just choose to ignore the rules anyway. So if you want government to look effective, you'll have to adjust the rules.

 

[drizgirl]

I don’t live in any of those states. For the people who do, I word....VOTE.

They do. Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't mean they are unhappy with the result.

 

[GoofGoof]

More good news, which I will insist on continuing to inject into this thread.

I have one for you: 1/4 of states now have over half of their population with at least 1 dose . Just under half the states are over 45%. We also did almost a million new first doses yesterday. Guess I had 3 more

 

[GoofGoof]

They do. Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't mean they are unhappy with the result.

Nothing to do with me. I don’t live there so not worried about the result. If people don’t like the ban on vaccine passports then vote against the people who put it in. If you don’t vote then don’t complain.

 

[ColeTrain04]

That makes no sense. Telling people they no longer have to wear a mask anywhere once vaccinated will make it exceedingly difficult for a business to enforce a mask rule. People will show up and argue they no longer need a mask.

At which point they can be refused service. It makes perfect sense. People are more willing to get a vaccine once mask guidelines go away. So if an additional 10% of people get the vaccine right away then more restrictions being lifted by local/state governments and businesses would be soon to follow. Not to mention There are already tons of businesses who have mask policies that aren’t enforced, such as Walmart, Lowe’s Kroger, Publix but the overwhelming majority of people shopping are still wearing them. People in general will do the right thing. Yes there will be some who break the rules but that’s honestly a small percentage of people. I live in GA, there has never been a state or local mandate in my area, yet 95% of people have masks on because they respect the rules of the establishment they’re shopping in.

 

[GoofGoof]

At which point they can be refused service. It makes perfect sense. People are more willing to get a vaccine once mask guidelines go away. So if an additional 10% of people get the vaccine right away then more restrictions being lifted by local/state governments and businesses would be soon to follow. Not to mention There are already tons of businesses who have mask policies that aren’t enforced, such as Walmart, Lowe’s Kroger, Publix but the overwhelming majority of people shopping are still wearing them. People in general will do the right thing. Yes there will be some who break the rules but that’s honestly a small percentage of people. I live in GA, there has never been a state or local mandate in my area, yet 95% of people have masks on because they respect the rules of the establishment they’re shopping in.

We can agree to disagree. Disney will not and should not have a policy and then just not enforce it. Terrible idea and basically just saying drop all requirements today.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Sure. But at some point we're going to have to hold our collective breaths and do it. As long as everyone is still required to mask up, regardless of vaccine status, you're going to have hold outs. Maybe enough to hold us back from herd immunity.

We can only protect people from themselves for so long. I actually think there will be a minor revolt at some point and vaccinated people will just choose to ignore the rules anyway. So if you want government to look effective, you'll have to adjust the rules.

How about we wait for that moment until the vaccine is at least available to all ages?

 

[lazyboy97o]

At which point they can be refused service. It makes perfect sense. People are more willing to get a vaccine once mask guidelines go away. So if an additional 10% of people get the vaccine right away then more restrictions being lifted by local/state governments and businesses would be soon to follow. Not to mention There are already tons of businesses who have mask policies that aren’t enforced, such as Walmart, Lowe’s Kroger, Publix but the overwhelming majority of people shopping are still wearing them. People in general will do the right thing. Yes there will be some who break the rules but that’s honestly a small percentage of people. I live in GA, there has never been a state or local mandate in my area, yet 95% of people have masks on because they respect the rules of the establishment they’re shopping in.

Do Georgia, Texas, Florida et al have higher vaccination rates than other places? If not, then the argument that government restrictions are hampering vaccination doesn’t really follow.

 

[ColeTrain04]

We can agree to disagree. Disney will not and should not have a policy and then just not enforce it. Terrible idea and basically just saying drop all requirements today.

I never said Disney should just drop their policies today. I noted the companies who currently require masks but don’t enforce them. I also said it would come quicker if the fed would actually follow scientific evidence that suggest vaccinated people don’t need to wear one ever. That would lead to a higher vaccination percentage which would lead to businesses reforming their policies faster because the spread of the virus would decrease quicker.

 

[danlb_2000]

FL is the only one with a fully passed law. AZ, TX, MT and ID all have executive orders preventing them in various forms. There may be others considering it too.

I saw an early version of Michigan's bill. It is interesting because it says a business cannot "Provide an incentive to a person if the person requires or uses a COVID-19 vaccination passport." So this goes beyond just baring entry, but you can't even offer, for example, a free product for being vaccinated. I also put's the onus on both the business and the customer, saying the customer can't even offer to show proof.

 

[ColeTrain04]

Do Georgia, Texas, Florida et al have higher vaccination rates than other places? If not, then the argument that government restrictions are hampering vaccination doesn’t really follow.

Fair point. No Georgia actually has a low vaccination rate but people in general still wear them. Like I said earlier though the majority of people I know won’t get one because they see no incentive to do so. This also aligns with polls that suggest mask wearing is preventing people from getting the vaccine. Anything the fed says isn’t binding to private establishments but it would boost public confidence and more people on the fence about getting them would be more willing.

 

[mmascari]

I care very much about my community. We both want the same thing. And what number is considered high community spread? 240k infections a day or 43k infections a day? It’s relative. Seems to me that more people were wearing masks and following guidelines over the winter, at least that’s what I’ve noticed where I am. Yet cases are still declining. So what’s the number? Nobody has said. Maybe public health officials should try and set clear goals.

The 7 day daily average from the CDC stats says there were 40k infections and 650 deaths yesterday. Say 230,000 yearly. General consensus here is somewhere under 150 daily deaths, 55,000 yearly. As has been pointed out, the value is a policy one not a public health one.

Pick a policy we can accept, the public health people will help us reach it. What’s your goal for normal?

What facts have you provided me? I’m not arguing that masks don’t slow the spread, the absolutely do. But clear goals and incentives will definitely make more people get vaccinated. What’s evidence is there to suggest that vaccinated people spread the virus? What evidence exists that you’re at a risk of contracting the virus after being vaccinated? Breakthrough infections are extremely rare and even less fatal. Also why after I’m vaccinated do I no longer need to quarantine after exposure? Wouldn’t that suggest I’m not a risk of asymptotic spread? Also cloth masks don’t prevent spread of an airborne virus. They definitely help but they aren’t anywhere near 100% effective. Also CDC says that for every 1 case that’s diagnosed there are 2-3 that get missed. That means between 100-120 million people in the us have a natural immunity to the virus. Top that with the 200+ million vaccines that have been administered and you can see why cases and deaths are down 80% since January. I’m not being unreasonable it’s literally what the science says. You want more vaccines? Find better ways to incentivize younger people to get them. It’s common sense. They’re clearly not scared of it so the CDC trying to tell them that there is “impending doom” on the horizon because of variants isn’t going to work. Then the CDC wants to say that the vaccines are very effective against known variants. So which is it? Impending doom because of variants or the vaccines are effective?

All this shows is that you don’t understand the difference between individual items and public health policy items, along with how they interact. I suspect that’s not entirely true, that it’s more you don’t want to understand the difference, or are ignoring it because you don’t like the result. That would match the messages best.

More good news, which I will insist on continuing to inject into this thread.

Let’s get everywhere there, and nobody will need any mitigation’s then.

 

[danlb_2000]

Sure. But at some point we're going to have to hold our collective breaths and do it. As long as everyone is still required to mask up, regardless of vaccine status, you're going to have hold outs. Maybe enough to hold us back from herd immunity.

We can only protect people from themselves for so long. I actually think there will be a minor revolt at some point and vaccinated people will just choose to ignore the rules anyway. So if you want government to look effective, you'll have to adjust the rules.

We need to wait until at least everyone the vaccine is approved for, and wants it, has had a reasonable chance of getting it. I got my first shot one day after I was eligible, and I still have 2 1/2 weeks to go before I am considered fully vaccinated.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Fair point. No Georgia actually has a low vaccination rate but people in general still wear them. Like I said earlier though the majority of people I know won’t get one because they see no incentive to do so. This also aligns with polls that suggest mask wearing is preventing people from getting the vaccine. Anything the fed says isn’t binding to private establishments but it would boost public confidence and more people on the fence about getting them would be more willing.

Anyone saying that mask wearing is making them not want to get vaccinated is just looking for an excuse.

 

[GoofGoof]

Do Georgia, Texas, Florida et al have higher vaccination rates than other places? If not, then the argument that government restrictions are hampering vaccination doesn’t really follow.

No. All in the bottom half of states. GA being the worst of the 3 at 44th

 

[drizgirl]

How about we wait for that moment until the vaccine is at least available to all ages?

Absolutely. I didn't suggest anything to the contrary. I just said there will come a moment when we have to go there.

 

[GoofGoof]

Absolutely. I didn't suggest anything to the contrary. I just said there will come a moment when we have to go there.

It’s coming soon. Maybe in a month or 2