Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[ImperfectPixie]

Not necessarily "refusal" but the fact is that the people who aren't taking the vaccine are people under 40 and the younger the fewer taking it.

It doesn't really matter if somebody is "refusing" the vaccine for whatever reason or just not taking it even though they aren't "refusing." The result is the same that there are doses not going into arms.

Honestly the young people are the more frustrating ones. People refusing based on whatever beliefs they hold at least have some level of reasoning. Young people are pretty much not getting vaccinated because they don't feel like doing it right now.

It's faulty reasoning.

 

[GoofGoof]

the “doom and gloom” is a counter to outright stupidity/defiance.

I’m good dropping both and doing puff pieces again...but one side of that equation feeds of straight economic rage and never shuts the hell up.

This is part of the problem though. It’s further politicizing an issue that should not be political at all. That’s why I’m hesitant to support vaccine passports as the primary plan. People on both sides are more worried about the political fight and “punishing” people on the other side than getting out of the pandemic. I believe that a lot of the people who support vaccine passports want them as a punishment to the “stupid and defiant“ people but unfortunately we are still trying to convince those same “stupid and defiant” people to get vaccinated and calling them names probably isn’t helping. I’m guilty of this too because the shoe really fits, but I still think we have to try to get people to take the vaccine without resorting to punishing them for not doing it. I don’t have all the answers, but there has to be a better way.

 

[SorcererMC]

you’re off base here...respectfully.

is this tact good? No.

but we’ve had to idiot proof this since day 1. Evidence piles up every single day. There’s no argument. Too much at stake and the public has not been proven to handle it.

if there’s gonna be a ramp up of “fear” to achieve the goal...it probably is warranted. It has at least as good a chance of succeeding as “trust”.

I'm not off base. Reaching herd immunity is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The media is conflating vaccine hesitancy with reluctance to get vaccinated because of needing more information or needing better community access, eg for socio-economic reasons. Different problems require different solutions.

 

[Incomudro]

What they're missing, however, is that the variants in circulation now are not last spring's COVID. We've seen a large upswing in hospitalized patients under the age of 50, both in percentages and absolute numbers.

Also, as a physician, I can tell you that many people under the age of 40 these days have an exaggerated sense of their own relative health. Their undiagnosed hypertension, pre- (or even overt) diabetes, smoking and/or drinking habits haven't caused any severe symptoms yet, so they think they don't need any medical care... until they do.

I agree, I certainly agree.
So how do we win them over?
I don't believe that convincing them that they are less healthy than they think the are (particularly if they had covid and didn't fair poorly) is going to sway too many of them.
Herd immunity, and its benefits are the way to go.

 

[carolina_yankee]

We need to ramp up the fear, and make it so those who choose to continue to deny COVID is a threat need to be vaccinated to do the things they want. I'm tired of uneducated bullies winning this thing.

I don't think ramping up fear will do it. People will just dig in more and make everybody miserable. I think a full-court education process, some patience, and positive incentives will help more.

As others have posted, there are some logical reasons some people are waiting. We have to cal us to be our better ourselves, not punish us for being our petulant selves. Government by fear is what tyrants do.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

This is part of the problem though. It’s further politicizing an issue that should not be political at all. That’s why I’m hesitant to support vaccine passports as the primary plan. People on both sides are more worried about the political fight and “punishing” people on the other side than getting out of the pandemic. I believe that a lot of the people who support vaccine passports want them as a punishment to the “stupid and defiant“ people but unfortunately we are still trying to convince those same “stupid and defiant” people to get vaccinated and calling them names probably isn’t helping. I’m guilty of this too because the shoe really fits, but I still think we have to try to get people to take the vaccine without resorting to punishing them for not doing it. I don’t have all the answers, but there has to be a better way.

Getting out of the pandemic needs to be the priority. The "other side" has done nothing but guarantee that it lasts as long as possible. Vaccine passports all the way.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is an interesting map on vaccine willingness by county from The NY Times article that's been posted. I don't too the article as doom and gloom, just realistic, and gets into why even the concept of herd immunity isn't all that helpful for a geographically diverse country and a globalized world.

View attachment 554238

you know what that map lines up 1:1 with...no joke?

 

[DisneyCane]

It's faulty reasoning.

I don't disagree but there are far more young people who aren't bothering to get vaccinated than there are people "refusing" to based upon this reasoning. If the young people willing to be vaccinated would get off the couch and get a shot, the 20% or whatever it turns out to be that refuse to be vaccinated probably won't be an issue.

 

[GoofGoof]

None of this is being helpful.

Probably not, but if anyone sincerely cared about the economy in any way they would already be vaccinated. I get many people don’t care and that’s their choice, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too. You can’t claim to be a crusader for the economy and the out of work people and then refuse a vaccine which is our best chance to return to normal quickly.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I don't think ramping up fear will do it. People will just dig in more and make everybody miserable. I think a full-court education process, some patience, and positive incentives will help more.

As others have posted, there are some logical reasons some people are waiting. We have to cal us to be our better ourselves, not punish us for being our petulant selves. Government by fear is what tyrants do.

Government by fear is what those on a particular side have been doing since day 1. And they continue to do it. They've been getting people riled up about "rights" and "freedoms" and looking out only for their own wallets.

There comes a point when you need to turn the bully's weapon back around on him.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not necessarily "refusal" but the fact is that the people who aren't taking the vaccine are people under 40 and the younger the fewer taking it.

It doesn't really matter if somebody is "refusing" the vaccine for whatever reason or just not taking it even though they aren't "refusing." The result is the same that there are doses not going into arms.

Honestly the young people are the more frustrating ones. People refusing based on whatever beliefs they hold at least have some level of reasoning. Young people are pretty much not getting vaccinated because they don't feel like doing it right now.

in a rare occurrence...I agree with you.

I don't think ramping up fear will do it. People will just dig in more and make everybody miserable. I think a full-court education process, some patience, and positive incentives will help more.

As others have posted, there are some logical reasons some people are waiting. We have to cal us to be our better ourselves, not punish us for being our petulant selves. Government by fear is what tyrants do.

what was going on worked until now...but we need to think of how to adapt.

the problem is brow beating is ineffective...until it becomes the last resort. If people want “no restrictions”...we are heading toward that point.

 

[hopemax]

What I find most disturbing is that technocrats and subject matter experts are now considered "liberal elites".

Well, what’s Stephen Colbert’s line... “Reality has a well-known liberal bias.”

 

[SorcererMC]

It doesn't really matter if somebody is "refusing" the vaccine for whatever reason or just not taking it even though they aren't "refusing." The result is the same that there are doses not going into arms.

It absolutely does matter because of the public health tools available to address it. Some of it is outside of their wheelhouse, like social media de-platforming spreaders of disinformation, or counterintelligence ridding us of malicious foreign hostile influence operations.

 

[DisneyFan32]

This is an interesting map on vaccine willingness by county from The NY Times article that's been posted. I don't read the article as doom and gloom, just realistic, and gets into why even the concept of herd immunity isn't all that helpful for a geographically diverse country and a globalized world.

View attachment 554238

NJ and NYC NEEDs to get herd immunity by July or August or ELSE!

 

[Incomudro]

The bold part is all that should matter. These same people who claimed they weren’t afraid of a virus and said we had to drop all restrictions for the sake of the economy and the poor workers who are “killing themselves” because they are out of work are now afraid of a vaccine and are the primary reason the economy is still on partial pause. So they have been exposed completely as frauds. Any person who uttered the word economy in any context as a reason to drop covid restrictions all along and then refuses to get the vaccine is a complete fraud.

They're not just afraid - some of them are of course.
There is also an active pride of defiance that's going on, and I know some people that are engaging in it.
Resistance.
It's become a podium to stand on by both sides politically for a variety of issues.

 

[havoc315]

On Disney's return to normalcy --
They announced summer discounts, and they are rather weak. There isn't a whole lot of on-site availability. Demand appears very strong.
Which begs the question, if demand is so strong, why not open more hotels? Half the mod and value hotels are still closed, AKL is still closed.
Clearly, summer won't have the same capacity limits that we see today.

Tom Bricker wrote up the discounts here:

Save Up to 25% Off Disney World Hotels in Summer & Fall 2021! - Disney Tourist Blog

Walt Disney World has released new hotel discounts through Fall 2021 with room-only deals. This post shares the details of these special offers, analysis as to how much money you’ll save with each, comparisons to other discounts, and availability info. There is a tiered discount that’s...

www.disneytouristblog.com

In the comments, he reports that it is his understanding that the central Florida labor shortage is really restricting Disney's ability to expand operations. As I've been saying for a while, I expect Disney's "re-opening" is being slowed by decisions and factors that are not directly related to Covid restrictions.

 

[carolina_yankee]

I'm re-posting the Vaccine Willingness map from The NY Times with today's heat map for the virus for comparison. I can honestly see why some people in some areas are waiting. I'm not saying they should, but I don't think they are irrational. For starters, it can still be an effort to get the vaccine if you aren't in an urban area and have major control of your schedule. There are some who are just plan Anti-Vax-holes, but I think the vast majority are persuadable if they can see what it's important for them. Every wall should be plastered with a reason to be vaccinated. Every cultural icon should be harnessed. If you want massive vaccinations, you basically need to go at it like the WW2 "Loose Lips Sink Ships" and "Buy War Bonds" campaigns.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm re-posting the Vaccine Willingness map from The NY Times with today's heat map for the virus for comparison. I can honestly see why some people in some areas are waiting. I'm not saying they should, but I don't think they are irrational. For starters, it can still be an effort to get the vaccine if you aren't in an urban area and have major control of your schedule. There are some who are just plan Anti-Vax-holes, but I think the vast majority are persuadable if they can see what it's important for them. Every wall should be plastered with a reason to be vaccinated. Every cultural icon should be harnessed. If you want massive vaccinations, you basically need to go at it like the WW2 "Loose Lips Sink Ships" and "Buy War Bonds" campaigns.

View attachment 554239

View attachment 554240

There’s something going on in Michigan that we need to get Sherlock on....

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Anti-Vax-holes

Just wanted to give this the love it deserves.

 

[DisneyFan32]

I'm re-posting the Vaccine Willingness map from The NY Times with today's heat map for the virus for comparison. I can honestly see why some people in some areas are waiting. I'm not saying they should, but I don't think they are irrational. For starters, it can still be an effort to get the vaccine if you aren't in an urban area and have major control of your schedule. There are some who are just plan Anti-Vax-holes, but I think the vast majority are persuadable if they can see what it's important for them. Every wall should be plastered with a reason to be vaccinated. Every cultural icon should be harnessed. If you want massive vaccinations, you basically need to go at it like the WW2 "Loose Lips Sink Ships" and "Buy War Bonds" campaigns.

View attachment 554239

View attachment 554240

Is NJ and NYC will get back to normal and start to lose masks and social distancing by late summer or fall as they will reach herd immunity? @ImperfectPixie