Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
From day one of the shutdown the message from the top down has been that they would return to operations with a priority to profitability. Clearly, this decision was always going to be at a sacrifice to agility in being able to respond to rapidly changing and unpredictable market conditions. And here we are... and everyone is shocked that Disney can’t turn it all back on again with 30 days notice. Slow and steady was always the plan.

Is Disney now hiring part time / casual staff? Have there been any hints about college program or international program ramping back up? You can’t solve a WDW labor problem (and by extension a capacity problem) without relying heavily on those three labor segments.

100% 👍🏻

in a rare show of support: I fully agree with Disney. I was there...it’s not the same operation but not terrible under the circumstances either.

here’s the other thing: the customers can’t be this spoiled. Pay or don’t pay...go or don’t go...but don’t complain about EVERYTHING and then give in and pay more for what you get.

it’s such a vicious, frequent cycle there.

business is a relationship between the customer and the vendor. The customer has more power. Use it.
 

correcaminos

Well-Known Member
Which begs the question why we haven't heard a peep from the FDA in ~4 weeks since Pfizer submitted for 12-15 year-olds.

Edit to add, Yahoo says possibly this week. So here's holding out hope.
3 weeks as of Friday... I'm hoping for this week too. I assume J&J issues likely slowed things down.
I don't mind a sore arm; just don't want the fever/chills/aches my dad got.
I only had sore arm. Same with my spouse and siblings. Wishing the same for you!

ou that many people under the age of 40 these days have an exaggerated sense of their own relative health. Their undiagnosed hypertension, pre- (or even overt) diabetes, smoking and/or drinking habits haven't caused any severe symptoms yet, so they think
Even some of those in their 50s here don't understand. I have two cousins, one mid 40s and one mid 50s. Both think they are nearly zero risk. One thinks being O+ will save them as well. Both are overweight by a decent margin with one being clinically obese. Not to mention a slew of other health issues for both. Both happen to think this whole thing is nothing to worry about. Both are the type I could easily see hospitalized or worse, but media has helped guide them into not wanting a vaccine.
There are some who are just plan Anti-Vax-holes,
Love this! Right with the mask-holes!
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Ok, then, I'm here!

Michigan has had a recent spike, just like NJ, NY, and PA did. Those three states were heading to what Michigan looks like, but, by having a high vaccination rate, were able to bend the curve before it got as bad as Michigan.

As I've posted recently, it seems that when you get to 40% of adults vaccinated, the spike stops growing; and at 50%, it definitively goes down.

Now that Michigan has hit the magical 50% of adults (16+) vaccinated its cases are plummeting, just like for the tristate area.

Michigan...
View attachment 554252

That 43% of first dose for all residents is equivalent to 53.5% of adults (16+).

good info...

but I meant the “attitude”...not very Michigander in the traditional sense.

could it be...perhaps...the long bottled up rage when the standard path to employment and a decent life was shut down decades ago and no concern for the fallout was made?

economic rage?

nah...I have no clue...growing up in Pennsylvanian coal, aluminum and steel country.
Can’t relate. 🤓
 

Kevin_W

Well-Known Member
Regardless of your political ideals, the trust in government and media are way down. I do wish we all could come together like we did for 911 and fight this. However we must be truly honest with ourselves and how we as a society are much more divided than I've personally ever seen and lack trust in their opposing political governments. So to say well they are just anti-vaxxers and all sorts of other names in my opinion doesn't help. At the place I work at where we have covid patients(although drastically going down thank God), I would say probably half has taken the shot. We work in direct contact, have seen the effects of this virus, yet probably only half got it. Why? Probably cause there are to many questions unanswered.

9/11 had a clear enemy to unite against. An unseeable virus is a much harder foe.

And it's much easier to "unite" against the facist/incompetent/pick-your-adjective politician instead.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
This is an interesting map on vaccine willingness by county from The NY Times article that's been posted. I don't read the article as doom and gloom, just realistic, and gets into why even the concept of herd immunity isn't all that helpful for a geographically diverse country and a globalized world.

View attachment 554238
It would be interesting to compare this map to actual vaccine uptake. I know Vermont data the best, and despite the dark purple state-wide for vaccine acceptance, there's about a 20 point percentage gap currently between the counties with the highest and lowest vaccine numbers. Although part of that may be due to access.

Missouri also seems to be darker than most of its neighbors. Wonder what's happening there and if the actual vaccine percentages mirror this?

And Mississippi... sigh, once again being Mississippi. I believe the saying in those parts is "Bless your heart".
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
9/11 had a clear enemy to unite against. An unseeable virus is a much harder foe.

And it's much easier to "unite" against the facist/incompetent/pick-your-adjective politician instead.

we should be mature enough to not need a “bad guy” to build a better society.

But your point is taken. Most of the “longing” for the 1980’s is because we had someone to hate and that is sick and twisted “comforting”
a vast majority of people were left behind in their personal lives to some degree...but miss it.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to compare this map to actual vaccine uptake. I know Vermont data the best, and despite the dark purple state-wide for vaccine acceptance, there's about a 20 point percentage gap currently between the counties with the highest and lowest vaccine numbers. Although part of that may be due to access.

Missouri also seems to be darker than most of its neighbors. Wonder what's happening there and if the actual vaccine percentages mirror this?

And Mississippi... sigh, once again being Mississippi. I believe the saying in those parts is "Bless your heart".
In actual people vaccinated, NH is about 4% higher than VT even though based on the acceptance poll map, you'd expect the opposite.
 

Flugell

Well-Known Member
This is part of the problem though. It’s further politicizing an issue that should not be political at all. That’s why I’m hesitant to support vaccine passports as the primary plan. People on both sides are more worried about the political fight and “punishing” people on the other side than getting out of the pandemic. I believe that a lot of the people who support vaccine passports want them as a punishment to the “stupid and defiant“ people but unfortunately we are still trying to convince those same “stupid and defiant” people to get vaccinated and calling them names probably isn’t helping. I’m guilty of this too because the shoe really fits, but I still think we have to try to get people to take the vaccine without resorting to punishing them for not doing it. I don’t have all the answers, but there has to be a better way.
May I suggest that they are “advised “ to watch a news report from India for 10 minutes. Maybe that would help explain the need for everyone (who is able) to get the vaccine as soon as possible. It may also go some way to increasing understanding of why some people, me included, favour vaccine passports- not as a means of excluding the non vaccinated- but as a means of remaining within a safer community. I realise that the last sentence is perhaps splitting hairs but I view it as a positive idea rather than as a punitive measure.
 

carolina_yankee

Well-Known Member
good info...

but I meant the “attitude”...not very Michigander in the traditional sense.

could it be...perhaps...the long bottled up rage when the standard path to employment and a decent life was shut down decades ago and no concern for the fallout was made?

economic rage?

nah...I have no clue...growing up in Pennsylvanian coal, aluminum and steel country.
Can’t relate. 🤓

I also wonder about vaccine skepticism (probably more correctly institutional skepticism) in communities of color as well as delivery to inner cities.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
What they're missing, however, is that the variants in circulation now are not last spring's COVID. We've seen a large upswing in hospitalized patients under the age of 50, both in percentages and absolute numbers.
So, in a general population where all the "easier" infections are disappearing, the variants that are better at infecting and spreading through younger people than the original strain are out competing the original strain?

Thus, changing everything we know about how the virus and younger people interact. Is this a surprise to anyone?

As long as there large community spread, this will continue to happen. The variants that are able to out compete the prior strains in whatever population is left to infect are in a race to replicate vs how fast that remaining population shrinks.
 

carolina_yankee

Well-Known Member
If there is one lesson I learned over the past year its that I have no idea where to get credible news from anymore.
I've given up on television news. When we cut the cord, I kept subscription to streaming TV providers for news and then just gave up.

I use NY Times, NPR, and BBC plus Apple News as an aggregator. They may not always be 100% impartial, but they are generally thorough. Not being TV, they also don't have people screaming at each other and "anchors" trying to score woke points or anti-woke points. NPR is downright respectful. No wonder they are niche programming.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
The governor of Florida has just ended the state of emergency in Florida.

All COVID 19 restrictions have been suspended

and here we go...........................

Local businesses can still require COVID protocols... except for a vaccine passport.

WDW has to negotiate with the unions with regard to what they'll do with the current protocols, and to their lawyers about whether or not to continue to follow the CDC recommendations.
 

nyrebel3

Active Member
And Mississippi... sigh, once again being Mississippi. I believe the saying in those parts is "Bless your heart".

Being a Mississippian and a self proclaimed Neanderthal, I have to respond. Yes we probably negatively lead the nation in vaccination acceptance. But we have the 3rd lowest Covid case rate. And we have been living mask free for a month. My youngest son has been in school the entire school year. My oldest son's small liberal arts college continually tests their students - and they have 0 positive cases in April and 5 in March. Maybe there are more variables in this equation than just vaccinations?

For the record, next week my youngest son will be the last in the family to be fully vaccinated.

Since VT's case rate is 2X MS's, I guess I should say back to you "Bless your heart".
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
So, in a general population where all the "easier" infections are disappearing, the variants that are better at infecting and spreading through younger people than the original strain are out competing the original strain?

Thus, changing everything we know about how the virus and younger people interact. Is this a surprise to anyone?

As long as there large community spread, this will continue to happen. The variants that are able to out compete the prior strains in whatever population is left to infect are in a race to replicate vs how fast that remaining population shrinks.
If I'm understanding this correctly, that is generally what is happening. First link is a summary, second is the actual study.

And I think this is the underlying rationale for benchmarking at 50%, because it drives down transmission, decreasing the risk of variants. (The caveat will always be there unless elimination is achieved, is my understanding).
 

HarperRose

Well-Known Member
Here is yet another front page article from a mainstream news outlet questioning President Biden's continued wearing of masks in situations where it is not supported by science.

As before when I posted the last such article (from Yahoo News), I'm sure there will be a rush to defend needless mask wearing. But please note that even some of President Biden's most ardent supporters are recognizing that Biden might be sending the wrong message. Despite the article's initial emphasis on this being a political debate, it later recognizes that this debate is going on amongst medical experts as well.

I encourage you to be open-minded and consider what strategies the President can employ to encourage the unvaccinated to get vaccinated.


Confusion over masks sparks new political showdown

https://www.cnn.com/profiles/stephen-collinson
Analysis by Stephen Collinson, CNN
Updated 1:02 AM ET, Mon May 3, 2021

(CNN) America's emerging limbo between a full-blown pandemic and a return to normal is throwing up new public health dilemmas that spark instant political fires -- like a fresh round of grandstanding over mask wearing.

Top White House adviser Anita Dunn Sunday defended President Joe Biden over his continued use of a mask outdoors -- even though the practice appears to conflict with new and relaxed administration guidelines for fully vaccinated citizens.

In comments that didn't necessarily clarify the situation, Dunn told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union" that "extra precautions" were being taken for the President and that mask wearing was "a matter of habit."

Republicans, seeking to dent strong public approval ratings for Biden's handling of the pandemic, have already accused him of whipping up stigma against people who refuse to wear masks, who include many conservatives. The Republican National Committee, for instance, blasted Biden for "breaking" US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidance, and the issue has become one of the latest culture war flashpoints for right-wing talk show hosts.

Republicans are seizing on the controversy over masks to bolster their wider narrative that Biden and Democrats are too politically correct and using the power of government to infringe on the freedoms of Americans -- a conceit that works for them on taxes to guns and public health to climate change.

The exchanges suggest that safely dismantling the web of Covid-19 precautions will prove as contentious as implementing them was, proving that little is immune from politicization in a nation internally estranged over ideology.

Debates among political rivals and in the medical community and conversations among citizens about how to emerge from a year of isolation are almost certainly only the first of a series of arguments about how vaccinated and unvaccinated people can behave. The coming months will likely see a flurry of controversies including in the hospitality industry, cruising, education, aviation and those triggered by the mass return to work.

It's not just political factions using the issue for partisan advantage -- though that is happening as Covid-19 restrictions continue to straddle the quintessentially American tension between individual freedom and the reach of government. Medical experts are engaging in an intense debate over whether the CDC is being too cautious in the way it's loosening mask guidance or is offering the public conflicting, confusing advice.

That medical debate is giving way to an escalating political debate as families struggle to assess their risks, look to leaders for advice and try to decide whether and how to travel, vacation and socialize in the surprisingly daunting process of resuming their pre-pandemic activities.

'A patriotic responsibility'​

The complications of exiting the pandemic -- a process that no one currently in positions of power has ever experienced -- explain why Biden's success in getting more than 100 million Americans fully immunized doesn't mean Covid-19 is no longer perilous or is any less politically treacherous for the White House.

The latest debate over mask wearing -- a practice that ex-President Donald Trump did much to unnecessarily politicize during his neglectful handling of the pandemic -- was triggered by the President himself. He wore a mask while walking to a microphone at an outside announcement at the White House last week announcing new practices on masks. Then he told NBC News in an interview that it was a "patriotic responsibility" for vaccinated people to continue to do so. His comment came despite evidence that vaccines are highly effective and that Covid-19 is far less transmissible outdoors than in crowded and poorly ventilated indoor settings.

The President's remarks followed new CDC guidance last week that mean fully vaccinated people can now unmask at small outdoor gatherings or when dining outside with friends from multiple households. Unvaccinated people should still cover their faces.

The advice encapsulated the conundrum that may be impossible to solve in a nation where many people are now fully vaccinated -- but millions more decline to do so at a time when the virus is still widely circulating.

Scientists and administration officials have to balance giving incentives to reluctant Americans to get vaccinated -- by talking up the restored freedoms that it might bring -- while avoiding giving the impression that everyone should rip off their masks. Many Americans, meanwhile, in the first blush of summer, appear to be taking matters into their own hands with mask wearing anecdotally down in some cities and towns on the east coast this weekend.

After months of stressing caution and sticking to restrictions -- after a failure to do so cost thousands of lives under Trump -- Biden now appears at risk of paying a political price for being too circumspect even though his initial caution proved successful.

Scientists are not united over masks either​

The political debate over masks is mirrored in the medical community.

Dr. Jonathan Reiner, a renowned cardiac surgeon and professor at George Washington University, said the CDC had been "too cautious."

"They've been both very competent since the new administration took over and very cautious," Reiner said on CNN's "Inside Politics" on Sunday.

Reiner said that while he had been adamant on mask wearing for the first 12 months of the pandemic, he was certain that someone who has been fully vaccinated is immune from Covid-19, no longer needs to mask in public and can do the same inside.

"It's time for the CDC to start embracing this kind of bifurcated strategy and perhaps giving the unvaccinated a hint of what life can be like if they become vaccinated," he said.

Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, said that with average daily new cases of Covid-19 still above 50,000 and with many adults declining to be vaccinated, government experts will continue to be cautious.

"The CDC will be hesitant on pulling back indoor mask mandates and I think that's right," Jha said on CBS's "Face the Nation."
"This is a pretty dangerous time to be unvaccinated, but what (the) CDC is signaling is if you are fully vaccinated, freedoms are just becoming safer and safer for people."

GOP senator warns against 'shaming' vaccine holdouts​

While public health experts warn that maximizing vaccinations is vital to creating the herd immunity in the population necessary to stop Covid-19 spreading, some 44% of Republicans said in a CNN poll last week that they wouldn't try to get an inoculation.

And one Republican, Sen. Roger Marshall of Kansas, warned the administration over the weekend against trying to pressure or stigmatize that group.

"It is America. Everybody has an individual right. I think that one of the things we have to be careful about is not shaming people or talking down to them or objecting to their way of life," Marshall told CNN's Pamela Brown on "Newsroom" on Saturday.

Marshall, who is also a physician, has been working to persuade people that vaccines are the best way to ensure a swift return of normal life. But he argued that many Americans were being alienated by confusion over masks.

"They've been told they don't need a mask. They need a mask. They've been told that even if you have a vaccine, you have to keep wearing the mask," Marshall said.

But Dunn told Tapper that the best way to ease such concerns and to get rid of masks for good is to get vaccinated.

"People should follow the CDC guidelines, and they should take advantage of getting the vaccine, getting fully vaccinated, and taking that mask off, particularly as the weather grows so beautiful and we all want to be outside," Dunn said.

"It's a lot more fun to take that outside walk without a mask," she said.
Please stop copying and pasting entire articles. A short explanation with a link to the article is all that's needed.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
Regardless of your political ideals, the trust in government and media are way down. I do wish we all could come together like we did for 911 and fight this. However we must be truly honest with ourselves and how we as a society are much more divided than I've personally ever seen and lack trust in their opposing political governments. So to say well they are just anti-vaxxers and all sorts of other names in my opinion doesn't help. At the place I work at where we have covid patients(although drastically going down thank God), I would say probably half has taken the shot. We work in direct contact, have seen the effects of this virus, yet probably only half got it. Why? Probably cause there are to many questions unanswered.
I've heard people saying that "the government told us the air around the 9/11 site was safe too" in regards to the covid vaccines being safe.
 
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