Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Heppenheimer]

So much of what people told him are their reasons is just garbage.

What I find most disturbing is that technocrats and subject matter experts are now considered "liberal elites".

 

[Incomudro]

Millions Are Saying No to the Vaccines. What Are They Thinking?

Feelings about the vaccine are intertwined with feelings about the pandemic.

www.theatlantic.com

Very good article.
I understand some of the positions, that some of the people in that story hold.
They (most of them) are not irrational, and if you add in the freedom to do what they want with their own bodies - they make a decent argument.
Their body, their choice.
Where I differ from them, and what I think is important to stress is herd immunity.
The more of us that get vaccinated, and the sooner we do it - the quicker mitigation methods will be dropped.
Avoiding the vaccine keeps covid around longer, and that makes things worse for everyone.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I hear ya there. The flu shot knocked me on my butt last year...I'm praying my 2nd dose doesn't do that.

but a day later you were fine...and you could go to the mall and shop without a face diaper and see your mom on Christmas Eve and everythjng

Just got my second dose. Hoping for no side effects

You’ll be fine...at least as much as you usually are

 

[ImperfectPixie]

What I find most disturbing is that technocrats and subject matter experts are now considered "liberal elites".

Yup.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, you are preaching to the choir here. The doom and gloom crowd absolutely loves to point out that we can’t or won’t reach herd immunity now even though nobody anywhere actually knows what level of immunity is really needed. It’s great click bait to say that and then quote an “expert”. The headline is the clickbait but when you read further what’s buried in there is the quote from Fauci that people seem to forget.

“People were getting confused and thinking you’re never going to get the infections down until you reach this mystical level of herd immunity, whatever that number is,” he said. “That’s why we stopped using herd immunity in the classic sense,” he added. “I’m saying: Forget that for a second. You vaccinate enough people, the infections are going to go down.”

So as I keep pointing out, we don’t need to wait for full herd immunity to see cases drop and to roll back mitigation efforts. The 7 day daily average in the US is the lowest it has been since the first week of October. We are still above the levels we hit in early Fall, but the cases are falling now in the majority of states. The curve is turning down and as we get more people vaccinated that should continue.

the “doom and gloom” is a counter to outright stupidity/defiance.

I’m good dropping both and doing puff pieces again...but one side of that equation feeds of straight economic rage and never shuts the hell up.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What I find most disturbing is that technocrats and subject matter experts are now considered "liberal elites".

there’s a straight psychological correlation to that. Perhaps we can discuss it in happier times.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

the “doom and gloom” is a counter to outright stupidity/defiance.

I’m good dropping both and doing puff pieces again...but one side of that equation feeds of straight economic rage and never shuts the hell up.

Or considers the greater good.

 

[SorcererMC]

Yeah, you are preaching to the choir here. The doom and gloom crowd absolutely loves to point out that we can’t or won’t reach herd immunity now even though nobody anywhere actually knows what level of immunity is really needed. It’s great click bait to say that and then quote an “expert”. The headline is the clickbait but when you read further what’s buried in there is the quote from Fauci that people seem to forget.

“People were getting confused and thinking you’re never going to get the infections down until you reach this mystical level of herd immunity, whatever that number is,” he said. “That’s why we stopped using herd immunity in the classic sense,” he added. “I’m saying: Forget that for a second. You vaccinate enough people, the infections are going to go down.”

So as I keep pointing out, we don’t need to wait for full herd immunity to see cases drop and to roll back mitigation efforts. The 7 day daily average in the US is the lowest it has been since the first week of October. We are still above the levels we hit in early Fall, but the cases are falling now in the majority of states. The curve is turning down and as we get more people vaccinated that should continue.

Exactly. There's a difference between saying 'we don't know exactly what the herd immunity threshold is' and 'it's never going to happen'. Dear US media, get politics reporters off of the science beat and write an accurate headline for once.

 

[havoc315]

Israel vaccination rates. This is what’s getting them to herd immunity.
Over 80% for 40+.
Except teens, all adult age brackets are 75%+.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Exactly. There's a difference between saying 'we don't know exactly what the herd immunity threshold is' and 'it's never going to happen'. Dear US media, get politics reporters off of the science beat and write an accurate headline for once.

I'm actually wondering if the Times article was meant to scare the vaccine-hesitant to go out and get their dang shots.

 

[GoofGoof]

Very good article.
I understand some of the positions, that some of the people in that story hold.
They (most of them) are not irrational, and if you add in the freedom to do what they want with their own bodies - they make a decent argument.
Their body, their choice.
Where I differ from them, and what I think is important to stress is herd immunity.
The more of us that get vaccinated, and the sooner we do it - the quicker mitigation methods will be dropped.
Avoiding the vaccine keeps covid around longer, and that makes things worse for everyone.

The bold part is all that should matter. These same people who claimed they weren’t afraid of a virus and said we had to drop all restrictions for the sake of the economy and the poor workers who are “killing themselves” because they are out of work are now afraid of a vaccine and are the primary reason the economy is still on partial pause. So they have been exposed completely as frauds. Any person who uttered the word economy in any context as a reason to drop covid restrictions all along and then refuses to get the vaccine is a complete fraud.

 

[carolina_yankee]

This is an interesting map on vaccine willingness by county from The NY Times article that's been posted. I don't read the article as doom and gloom, just realistic, and gets into why even the concept of herd immunity isn't all that helpful for a geographically diverse country and a globalized world.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Exactly. There's a difference between saying 'we don't know exactly what the herd immunity threshold is' and 'it's never going to happen'. Dear US media, get politics reporters off of the science beat and write an accurate headline for once.

you’re off base here...respectfully.

is this tact good? No.

but we’ve had to idiot proof this since day 1. Evidence piles up every single day. There’s no argument. Too much at stake and the public has not been proven to handle it.

if there’s gonna be a ramp up of “fear” to achieve the goal...it probably is warranted. It has at least as good a chance of succeeding as “trust”.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Very good article.
I understand some of the positions, that some of the people in that story hold.
They (most of them) are not irrational, and if you add in the freedom to do what they want with their own bodies - they make a decent argument.
Their body, their choice.
Where I differ from them, and what I think is important to stress is herd immunity.
The more of us that get vaccinated, and the sooner we do it - the quicker mitigation methods will be dropped.
Avoiding the vaccine keeps covid around longer, and that makes things worse for everyone.

What they're missing, however, is that the variants in circulation now are not last spring's COVID. We've seen a large upswing in hospitalized patients under the age of 50, both in percentages and absolute numbers.

Also, as a physician, I can tell you that many people under the age of 40 these days have an exaggerated sense of their own relative health. Their undiagnosed hypertension, pre- (or even overt) diabetes, smoking and/or drinking habits haven't caused any severe symptoms yet, so they think they don't need any medical care... until they do.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

View attachment 554237
Israel vaccination rates. This is what’s getting them to herd immunity.
Over 80% for 40+.
Except teens, all adult age brackets are 75%+.

i bet they had a “do what you’re told...” approach?

 

[GimpYancIent]

The bold part is all that should matter. These same people who claimed they weren’t afraid of a virus and said we had to drop all restrictions for the sake of the economy and the poor workers who are “killing themselves” because they are out of work are now afraid of a vaccine and are the primary reason the economy is still on partial pause. So they have been exposed completely as frauds. Any person who uttered the word economy in any context as a reason to drop covid restrictions all along and then refuses to get the vaccine is a complete fraud.

None of this is being helpful.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

you’re off base here...respectfully.

is this tact good? No.

but we’ve had to idiot proof this since day 1. Evidence piles up every single day. There’s no argument. Too much at stake and the public has not been proven to handle it.

if there’s gonna be a ramp up of “fear” to achieve the goal...it probably is warranted. It has at least as good a chance of succeeding as “trust”.

We need to ramp up the fear, and make it so those who choose to continue to deny COVID is a threat need to be vaccinated to do the things they want. I'm tired of uneducated bullies winning this thing.

 

[havoc315]

The bold part is all that should matter. These same people who claimed they weren’t afraid of a virus and said we had to drop all restrictions for the sake of the economy and the poor workers who are “killing themselves” because they are out of work are now afraid of a vaccine and are the primary reason the economy is still on partial pause. So they have been exposed completely as frauds. Any person who uttered the word economy in any context as a reason to drop covid restrictions all along and then refuses to get the vaccine is a complete fraud.

Agreed. This segment of the population had constantly changing rationales.
But at the core, it was a conspiracy theory that “Covid is a hoax.” (Or a more mild “Covid is greatly exaggerated by the liberal elites).
Since Covid is a hoax/exaggerated, we never needed the restrictions. Since it is a hoax/exaggerated, we don’t need dang vaccines. Both the restrictions and vaccines are some sort of elitist globalist plot to take away their freedom.
That’s really the logic of a significant segment of the people not getting vaccines.

 

[DisneyCane]

not looking good. People are refusing to take it...because of political stupidity and the ramblings of buffoons.

it’s a fact...not a “debate”

Not necessarily "refusal" but the fact is that the people who aren't taking the vaccine are people under 40 and the younger the fewer taking it.

It doesn't really matter if somebody is "refusing" the vaccine for whatever reason or just not taking it even though they aren't "refusing." The result is the same that there are doses not going into arms.

Honestly the young people are the more frustrating ones. People refusing based on whatever beliefs they hold at least have some level of reasoning. Young people are pretty much not getting vaccinated because they don't feel like doing it right now.

 

[havoc315]

i bet they had a “do what you’re told...” approach?

They are extensively using passports. “Want to go into a theater? Want to keep your job? Only if you get vaccinated.”