Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Patcheslee]

Of all the mitigation measures, what is the order that WDW may roll them back? Not which order do you prefer them to be rolled back. Predicting which measure will be rolled back first, and then which one will fall next, will be very interesting to watch. Capacity limits may be bumped up and seemingly argue in favor of loosening the measures.

One prediction is that social distancing will be dropped first. The temp check may be next. Mask may be third on the list. Hand washing has always been suggested but very sporadically followed and is probably unenforceable. Temp checks and masks may decrease some spread. Social distancing (6ft vs 3ft) is already under revision and directly affects their capacity throughput numbers. What people should do is not always what they want to do nor what they actually do.

Opening up more TS & character dining seems to be a logical choice. Meals usually last an hour or more, so that can increase capacity in a passive way while also increasing revenue.
Meet & Greets seem to be another if CMs are able to get vaccinated and feel comfortable with meeting.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

In an ideal world, we would all love to stay home and get paid until this was over but unfortunately that is not reality for us over here in the states.

I know people who are still getting unemployment. So it is the way it works for some people in USA.

 

[The Mom]

Just a reminder - this thread no longer has a "politics" tag - no political remarks/discussion is allowed unless it just discusses Covid but not individual elected officials/parties. Thank you. So, discussing what each state is doing is OK. Discussing individual governors, etc is not. I know it's a fine line but try not to cross it.

Thank you.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Opening up more TS & character dining seems to be a logical choice. Meals usually last an hour or more, so that can increase capacity in a passive way while also increasing revenue.
Meet & Greets seem to be another if CMs are able to get vaccinated and feel comfortable with meeting.

No one has answered why full costume characters can not do meet and greets? I understand the face characters but full enclosed costumes?

 

[correcaminos]

No one has answered why full costume characters can not do meet and greets? I understand the face characters but full enclosed costumes?

Probably a fear of transmission through touch since soft goods are harder to wipe down/sanitize.

 

[giantgolfer]

If you want me to pick on Northern NJ only and not the Southern portion of the state, so be it, but it is still one state.

Yes please.

 

[ABQ]

Probably a fear of transmission through touch since soft goods are harder to wipe down/sanitize.

That and it's just tough to allow a child, or many adults, to break the 6 foot distance regulation for one thing and expect them not to just continue doing it.

 

[DisneyCane]

It's interesting that it specifies "COVID-19 vaccination", so it is ok for business to require proof of other vaccinations. This would probably be a good angle to go after if someone wanted to fight this.

It specifies COVID-19 vaccination because the authority (if it actually exists) stems from the State of Emergency declared due to COVID-19. That's the rationale for why a law doesn't need to be passed.

Wouldn't the option to show vaccination for additional rights i.e. no mask, sit with a large number of people in your group if all vaccinated, be allowed under this? It's only preventing admission or service all together.
That would deny anyone service.

Yes, but the EO specifies that no State Government entity will provide certification of vaccination status. How is the business going to verify it other than the easily forgeable paper cards?

It also doesn't say much about penalties. If I am reading it right it does sound like the state could revoke a companies business license, but if Disney decided to violate this, does anyone really think the state would shut them down?

No, but if a person is denied entry to WDW for not having proof of vaccination they could then sue Disney.

Also means book your flights ASAP, air fare about to start really climbing...

They already have climbed. They actually started climbing significantly in early February.

That is my “plan” that I think actually works. The EO says you can’t require a vaccine passport for entry. Disney can simply allow anyone with a paid ticket in and require them to follow certain Covid safety rules like masks and distancing while in the parks, then you setup a system where anyone who wants to waive out of some of those protocols can show proof of vaccination or a negative test result. Those people are flagged by the my Disney experience app and they get a wrist band when arriving at the parks and or hotels so any CM can easily see they are exempt. For anyone not exempt CMs require them to wear a mask and distance in certain circumstances. Nobody is being banned from entry.

Edit: since we all need to book park reservations anyway now they could link your vaccination status to that system and allow it to flow through the app so now you can just show your status at the gate and get your wristband.

The only issue with your plan is that, as stated above, the EO specifies that the State will not provide certification of vaccination Status to a third party. To implement your plan (which I think is a great idea BTW), Disney would have to rely on people emailing pictures or scans of the CDC card and just accepting some level of forgeries.

 

[danlb_2000]

It specifies COVID-19 vaccination because the authority (if it actually exists) stems from the State of Emergency declared due to COVID-19. That's the rationale for why a law doesn't need to be passed.

Yes, but the EO specifies that no State Government entity will provide certification of vaccination status. How is the business going to verify it other than the easily forgeable paper cards?

No, but if a person is denied entry to WDW for not having proof of vaccination they could then sue Disney.

They already have climbed. They actually started climbing significantly in early February.

The only issue with your plan is that, as stated above, the EO specifies that the State will not provide certification of vaccination Status to a third party. To implement your plan (which I think is a great idea BTW), Disney would have to rely on people emailing pictures or scans of the CDC card and just accepting some level of forgeries.

For these sort of additional benefits, forgeries would probably not be a big deal. They could also get around this problem if there was a national app and a way for people to voluntarily put their status into that.

 

[DisneyCane]

For these sort of additional benefits, forgeries would probably not be a big deal. They could also get around this problem if there was a national app and a way for people to voluntarily put their status into that.

Absolutely but people could just lie.

 

[DisneyCane]

Probably a fear of transmission through touch since soft goods are harder to wipe down/sanitize.

I almost laughed a few times playing poker in Vegas at how they would wipe down the felt on the table whenever a player would leave a seat. Passing an alcohol wipe over fabric isn't going to accomplish anything.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

GET READY FOR VACCINE PASSPORTS!!!!

 

[CJR]

Probably a fear of transmission through touch since soft goods are harder to wipe down/sanitize.

They should just do them Arrested Development style, permit people to get close enough for a good picture, but call out "No touching!" when it happens.

I believe Disney actually owns that show now, btw. Crazy times.

 

[mmascari]

Oh.

The actual article is much less than the headline would suggest. Super click bait misleading.

Absolutely but people could just lie.

People would lie. Great perk, no or low risk to themselves, easy to lie. It’s easier than bike theft.

Just like mail in voters

If mail in voting worked like a random Internet poll, sure. Good thing it’s got more validation steps than that. Otherwise Boaty McBoatface would win every election.

 

[Chi84]

It's a largely toothless order which lays no punishment other than not being eligible for grants or contacts funded through state revenue --- which wouldn't affect Disney or Universal or any other large theme park in Central Florida.

Now does Disney want to start a fight with DeSantis or Florida Republicans over this? Probably not, unless it sees enough potential financial reward from requiring proof of vaccination (like increasing capacity more rapidly). On the flip side, it doesn't benefit DeSantis to start battling it out with Disney or other private businesses. Those companies will still be around long after DeSantis' time in office comes to an end.

I think the expectation that the terms "passport" and "intrastate commerce" can peacefully coexist is unrealistic. This doesn't seem like an area where you can have individual states each making their own decision without impacting commerce between the states, which is broadly defined. Interesting order, to say the least.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

If there was a presidential order for a vaccine passport would it over ride a governor’s order?

If not, what would?

 

[mmascari]

if you want more to get the shot, say those who are fully vaccinated can remove masks and don’t need to social distance

For the 100th time, it doesn’t work that way. Unless you’re trying to create a variant the vaccines are less effective against.

Prior post showing how not getting vaccinated extends the time mitigations are necessary.

This is a great example of only looking at short term impacts over long term advancement. It's like chasing quarterly profits even if investing in longer term projects that reduce quarterly profits would generate larger long term profits. Never realizing the larger long term gains because only the next quarter matters.

1. As soon as we get community spread reduced enough, all mitigations will go away.
2. Once enough people are vaccinated, community spread will dramatically decrease.
3. People getting vaccinated faster will accelerate number 2 which will lead to number 1.

It's that simple. That's the reason to get vaccinated.

Let's pretend that we vaccinate people as fast as possible and everyone gets the vaccine, in this simulation, assume we reach enough people that by July 1, community spread plummets and all mitigations can be removed. Someone who finished the vaccine in April had to wait through May and June still using mitigation efforts. While someone who didn't complete vaccination until the end of June only had to wait through two weeks still using mitigation efforts. Was the person who waited really better off?

Now, let's change the scenario. Because those people in April were not able to immediately stop mitigation efforts, they didn't bother with the vaccine. The roll out slowed. Come July 1, not enough people are vaccinated and community spread is still to high to eliminate mitigations. A massive marketing push is done to get more people vaccinated but it takes until September 1 before enough are vaccinated, community spread plummets and all mitigations can be removed. Those people that couldn't be bothered to get vaccinated earlier had to go an extra two months of mitigation restrictions. Were they better off now by waiting? Do they just like extending the time while mitigations are required?

Let's change it again. Even after the marketing push, people still don't bother because they see no immediate point. Community spread never plummets, mitigations continue being required into 2022. Are they better off yet?

I’m starting to think the people who don’t want to get vaccinated want to continue mitigations forever. That’s the direct consequence of not enough people being vaccinated. The message isn’t “get vaccinated, stop masking immediately”. The message is “don’t get vaccinated, wear a mask forever”. Imposed on themselves and in any gathering unsure if everyone is vaccinated.

In a prior post, I said nobody was in favor of mitigations forever. I was wrong. Clearly all the people who don’t want to get vaccinated are in favor of mitigation forever.

 

[LittleBuford]

I’m not sure where I stand on the issue, but it should be noted that there are legitimate civil-rights concerns surrounding the question of vaccination passports. These concerns cross political lines and have made some unlikely bedfellows over in the UK:

Coronavirus: Dozens of MPs criticise 'divisive' Covid passports - BBC News

They say demanding proof of a jab or test would be "dangerous" amid reports that trials are planned.

www.bbc.com

Something worth considering before we rush forward with such passports.

 

[Disney Experience]

Something ironic about a video relating the process of making a vaccine and music, made in collaboration/money from Emergent Biosolutions. If one player in a symphony messes up...well that is what happened at emergent, they messed up the process in making J&J vaccine. (Johnson and Johnson is going to put more oversight on Emergent [Who is not yet FDA approved]. (See prior post by people describing the Emergent mistake)

But they did have time to make the cute video:
Direct video link:
Emergent page with link: https://www.emergentbiosolutions.com/covid-19

Johnson & Johnson Says Contractor Botched Part Of Vaccine Production

The drug company says the problem involved one batch of a substance that goes into its coronavirus vaccine. But the contractor, Emergent BioSolutions, has a history of problems.

www.npr.org

Emergent is hiring Quality Control specialists:

Emergent Biosolutions Seeks New Talent to Support Global COVID-19 Vaccination Push, Expanding Project Portfolio | BioBuzz

Maryland’s leading vaccine manufacturer, Emergent Biosolutions (Emergent), is a critical cog in the vaccine manufacturing and distribution engine as it has multiple COVID-19 vaccine manufacturing partnerships, including partnerships with J&J and AstraZeneca, among others. Emergent also partners...

biobuzz.io

To give one positive spin. Someone or some entity caught the mistake (That is good, and it was not buried, also good). It never got into anyone's arms(Really good). (Because no J&J vaccine components from this site have ever gotten into people arms [Not yet FDA approved])

 

[JoeCamel]

For the 100th time, it doesn’t work that way. Unless you’re trying to create a variant the vaccines are less effective against.

Prior post showing how not getting vaccinated extends the time mitigations are necessary.


I’m starting to think the people who don’t want to get vaccinated want to continue mitigations forever. That’s the direct consequence of not enough people being vaccinated. The message isn’t “get vaccinated, stop masking immediately”. The message is “don’t get vaccinated, wear a mask forever”. Imposed on themselves and in any gathering unsure if everyone is vaccinated.

In a prior post, I said nobody was in favor of mitigations forever. I was wrong. Clearly all the people who don’t want to get vaccinated are in favor of mitigation forever.

People would have done their part last year we could have been New Zealand, well we have this so negative tests and vac cards it is....