Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

....Like using an executive order to prevent private companies from conducting their business as they see fit? What happened to freedoms?

There has been no executive order yet.

You can't have it both ways. It can't be OK to restrict businesses by executive order but not OK to prevent them from forcing customers to reveal medical information.

Personally, I don't agree with either. To date, Desantis has done the former and has said he will do the latter.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I am getting tired of bad news. The cases nationally are up again today. NJ shouldbe happy. they are up to 50 today but Michigan is at 51 and NY at 52. There is no excuse for those increases. Florida is at 24 again today. There is a tiny amount of good news as there are now 13 states in single digits.

Now, my biggest complaint from yesterday goes to Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention who said she is fearful of the consequences of the new upturn. There is no excuse for creating a situation of doom and gloom when we are vaccinating approximately 3 million people a day and it is NY, Michigan, NJ, Pennsylvania, Delaware and New England that is driving the increase. Afterall, California has 7 cases per 100,000 and Texas has 13. Combined Texas, California and Florida have a daily average of 11,674 while NY alone has a daily average of 10,033. Think about that, the top 3 populated states have only 16.35% more cases combined than the 4th most populated state. That is just insane! There may be a reason to be fearful about the Northeast and their stupid population but the rest of the country is doing well. What do they have on common? What is it about their stupidity, and since I own and live in both NY and NJ, I have a right to yell ar my neighbors. They are the ones keeping this pandemic going.

A case today does not equal a case four months ago. Obviously we don't want cases to be increasing, but the elderly are vaccinated for the most part and the average age of infection is plummeting. Even if we end up in a full-on wave of cases, it's not going to be the leading indicator of deaths that it has been up to this point.

 

[ABQ]

A case today does not equal a case four months ago. Obviously we don't want cases to be increasing, but the elderly are vaccinated for the most part and the average age of infection is plummeting. Even if we end up in a full-on wave of cases, it's not going to be the leading indicator of deaths that it has been up to this point.

It's Masterpiece Cakeshop in reverse and the entire Right has completely forgotten that they used to at least pretend to believe in freedom of association.

Careful, this thread is no longer tagged as political.

 

[seascape]

It's the same here in Canada. Our numbers are rising and its coming the under 40 crowd that don't care. Which is concerning as they are now the ones filling up our hospitals.

It's getting so bad BC has gone back to no indoor dining til mid April.

It isn't due to age in the US. The 10 states I mentioned above have an average of 28,040 case per day or 42.89% of all the cases in the US. NJ, NY, PA, DE, CT, MS, RI, NH, VT and MI are to blame for the US increase and since California haslots of young people too and they are down to 7 cases per 100,000 age does not alone explain the increase. On the otherhand, the fact that those 10 states had very hard lockdowns and people are suffering from being under the lockdown maybe it is the result of Covid19 fatigue. Maybe it would have been better to keep things open.

 

[GhostHost1000]

It's the same here in Canada. Our numbers are rising and its coming the under 40 crowd that don't care. Which is concerning as they are now the ones filling up our hospitals.

It's getting so bad BC has gone back to no indoor dining til mid April.

Just playing devils advocate here but are those that are under 40 who are getting it have a concerning mortality or severe complication rate or is it mostly a bad flu for them?

 

[havoc315]

I think we are saying the same thing here. Your post is saying if you don’t get the vaccine then you aren’t allowed to do things in other countries. That’s not how it is here.

The post was specifically about how they are doing it in Israel and how it SHOULD be done elsewhere.
As to here: Depends where here. There are places in the US behaving closer to the Israel model, and other places less so.

You’ve been able to do mass gathering events like Disney for 9 months now without a vaccine.

In Orlando and Florida. Not in many other places.

Until that changes, a lot of people won’t get it. As of now, it doesn’t change your day to day life at all.

So you agree--- more needs to be shut down to non-vaccinated individuals.

And your ancetodal experience with covid is unfortunately irrelevant. The data doesn’t support it. Less than 5% of COVID deaths in the US are people under 50 despite people under 50 making up about 65% of the population. That number shrinks to 1.5% for people under 40 and 0.4% for people under 30. If you are in one of these younger adult groups and don’t have a serious medical condition, your risk of death is microscopic.

Your numbers are only true if you count being 10 pounds overweight as a "serious medical condition" -- or mild asthma as a "serious medical condition".
The risk of death is quite real. Far more than "microscopic" which I would define as about 1 in a million.

That’s the scientific fact born out in the data.

If we want to get people to take the vaccine they need a reason to. That can be rewarding them

Agreed.. There should be a "reward"... like your own safety and health. Being able to go on airplanes, being able to go to gatherings.
New York, for example, is already limiting gatherings over 50 people to people who are vaccinated or who get negative test within 3 days of the gathering.

by removing mask and social distancing requirements or punishing them by requiring vaccine passports.

I'm all on board for vaccine passports. But they are unlike to happen on a national level except maybe for airline and cruise travel.

 

[WillWrambles]

Careful, this thread is no longer tagged as political.

this probably means the thread is about to be locked. It was fun while it lasted.

 

[wdwmagic]

this probably means the thread is about to be locked. It was fun while it lasted.

This thread will not be locked, but will not be political in nature.

 

[havoc315]

Just playing devils advocate here but are those that are under 40 who are getting it have a concerning mortality or severe complication rate or is it mostly a bad flu for them?

No..... The mortality rate for 40 with Covid is worse than the mortality rate of 40 with flu. The mortality rate for 40 with Covid may indeed be similar to the mortality rate of a 80-year-old with flu (for illustration only, I don't have the exact numbers before me).

In other words -- when correcting for age, co-morbidities, etc, Covid is always more dangerous than the flu. But mortality from flu is lower in a healthy 40 year-old than in a 80 year-old with COPD, just like mortality from Covid is lower in a healthy 40 year-old than a COPD 80-year-old.

But at no point, for no adult, is "Covid just like the flu."

Edited to add supporting data:

Flu deaths by age (pre-Covid, 2018-2019):

Influenza deaths by age group U.S.| Statista

In the 2023-2024 flu season, there were a total of almost 28,000 influenza deaths. Flu deaths are much more common among the elderly than other age groups.

www.statista.com

COVID-19 deaths by age U.S. 2023| Statista

Between the beginning of January 2020 and June 14, 2023, of the 1,134,641 deaths caused by COVID-19 in the United States, around 307,169 had occurred among those aged 85 years and older.

www.statista.com

So in 2018-2019, 2450 flu deaths among 18-49 year olds.
From 2020-2021, Covid deaths among 18-49: 22,143 deaths.

So for adults 18-49, in the United States, Covid has proven 9 times more deadly. (that's not 9 times more deadly per infection, but 9times more deadly to the entire 18-49 population than a typical year of the flu).

In the 65+ age group, flu deaths in 2018-2019 - 25,555
Covid deaths: 417,991:
So 16x

So for adults 18-49, Covid is about 9 times more dangerous than the flu
For adults 65+, Covid is about 16 times more dangerous than the flu
For 50-64 year olds: Covid is about 14 times more dangerous than the flu

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'd have to do research which I don't have time for but there may be a legal difference between public schools and private businesses.

Isn’t a private school a private business?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Just playing devils advocate here but are those that are under 40 who are getting it have a concerning mortality or severe complication rate or is it mostly a bad flu for them?

We don’t know how long some complications will last. There are 10’s of thousands right now with severe or just lingering effects. That’s a question for down the road how it ruins someone’s insides.
As for the many under 40 not caring about getting it, well they do pass it so that’s not good. Reckless behavior at any age could hurt many in the population.

 

[GoofGoof]

Careful, this thread is no longer tagged as political.

I hadn’t noticed the tag was removed....good call out

This thread will not be locked, but will not be political in nature.

A wise move. It seems like things are only going to get more contentious as time goes on....didn’t think that was possible after the last year, yet here we are.

 

[DisneyCane]

551,000 and rising there, “ma freedom”...

we need serious people...not fools.

another great tidbit: in the states where cases and hospitalizations are rising...the highest percentage are people UNDER 30....

why is that? The variants. You and the sons of Liberty don’t want to hear that...I bet.

Or maybe it's because under 30 is the least vaccinated group? Is there a source that shows the percentage of people under 30 recently hospitalized and which variant they have tested positive for?

 

[danlb_2000]

Your right that we don't know for certain yet... but the absolute latest a side effect shows up that can be conclusively linked to any vaccines we know of from over a century of research is about 3 months. This is approximately the limit for the latency period of Guillan-Barre syndrome. None of the trials saw a single case of Guillan-Barre syndrome, and of the millions of people who have received the vaccines so far worldwide, I have not read any reports of a case of this condition following vaccination.

So, the vaccines are extremely safe. They've more than passed the same safety thresholds that we have applied to every other vaccine in history.

The way I like to look at it, the vaccine may not be 100% safe, but virus definitely isn't 100% safe. The vaccines are design and tested to protect us and be safe. The virus is "designed" to make us sick and kill us.

Disclaimer: I am in no way implying that the virus was made in a lab.

 

[Jrb1979]

Just playing devils advocate here but are those that are under 40 who are getting it have a concerning mortality or severe complication rate or is it mostly a bad flu for them?

IMO it doesn't matter what it is. Its obviously bad enough for them to hospitalized. There have been reports of people having bad after effects from it.

 

[Incomudro]

I am getting tired of bad news. The cases nationally are up again today. NJ shouldbe happy. they are up to 50 today but Michigan is at 51 and NY at 52. There is no excuse for those increases. Florida is at 24 again today. There is a tiny amount of good news as there are now 13 states in single digits.

Now, my biggest complaint from yesterday goes to Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention who said she is fearful of the consequences of the new upturn. There is no excuse for creating a situation of doom and gloom when we are vaccinating approximately 3 million people a day and it is NY, Michigan, NJ, Pennsylvania, Delaware and New England that is driving the increase. Afterall, California has 7 cases per 100,000 and Texas has 13. Combined Texas, California and Florida have a daily average of 11,674 while NY alone has a daily average of 10,033. Think about that, the top 3 populated states have only 16.35% more cases combined than the 4th most populated state. That is just insane! There may be a reason to be fearful about the Northeast and their stupid population but the rest of the country is doing well. What do they have on common? What is it about their stupidity, and since I own and live in both NY and NJ, I have a right to yell ar my neighbors. They are the ones keeping this pandemic going.

There are other factors besides population that have to do with transmission, such as population density.
Let's not forget that as states go, NY has New York City which has the subway system.
Most of the transportation needs of NYC are carried out by that subway system.
Thousands of people sharing subway cars every day.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

There are other factors besides population that have to do with transmission, such as population density.
Let's not forget that as states go, NY has New York City which has the subway system.
Most of the transportation needs of NYC are carried out by that subway system.
Thousands of people sharing subway cars every day.

Kind of like visiting a resort where you have to take a monorail, boat, or bus to get anywhere! (Skyliner being the one exception of course).

 

[HarperRose]

You're missing the perspective of scientists and or many countries including Israel -- Your life absolutely does improve with a vaccine.
You go from NO GATHERINGS to gatherings with mask and social distancing. That's a HUGE life improvement.

So no vaccine = no sports events, no theaters, no concerts, no museums, no non-essential shopping, no theme parks, no office working, no gyms, etc..
With vaccine == Yes, you can go to sports arenas, museums, theme parks, shopping, offices, etc... but with a mask and varying levels of social distancing.
And for places that utilize a vaccine passport -- where it's exclusively vaccinated individuals present, you can take off your mask in restaurants and gatherings that are 100% vaccinated.

And this is the direction most public health officials and scientists believe we need to go until/unless we reach herd immunity (or the virus is weakened in other ways).




Tell that to the 3 people I know under 50 who died without any significant pre-existing conditions. (over 50% of Americans under 50 have 1 or more "pre-existing" conditions.)



How's this -- Get a vaccine and you can go to theaters, museums, sports events, shopping malls.. etc. But wear your mask. If you don't get your vaccine, you can't go to any of those places. That's how it's working in Israel.
That's sadly not going to be how it works here as we are already far more "open" than we should be at this stage of the pandemic.

It sounds like those who choose not to be vaccinated will be hiding out in their houses. Huh. Who says irony is dead?

 

[Dan Deesnee]

Your right that we don't know for certain yet... but the absolute latest a side effect shows up that can be conclusively linked to any vaccines we know of from over a century of research is about 3 months. This is approximately the limit for the latency period of Guillan-Barre syndrome. None of the trials saw a single case of Guillan-Barre syndrome, and of the millions of people who have received the vaccines so far worldwide, I have not read any reports of a case of this condition following vaccination.

So, the vaccines are extremely safe. They've more than passed the same safety thresholds that we have applied to every other vaccine in history.

Can you cite where you are getting that bolded part? I am not certain but I am pretty sure that is factually wrong. I believe the basic understanding is that NORMALLY they occur within 3 months.

However, we have never developed a vaccine so fast so their is nothing normal about the situation we're in. We are in uncharted territory, basically, with the covid vaccine, like it or not. I don't blame people for being cautious with it.

 

[aliceismad]

IMO it doesn't matter what it is. Its obviously bad enough for them to hospitalized. There have been reports of people having bad after effects from it.

Agreed. There are many studies coming out that show lingering effects and damage to the lungs and brain of people who've had covid. Even if they were asymptomatic. We have no idea what the long-term impact to people's lives may be.