Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mmascari]

See this right here is then problem. On one hand it’s “get you vaccine so we can go back to normal”. That is immediately followed up by “you have to keep wearing your mask because we don’t know how effective the vaccine is against all variants, we don’t know how long the vaccine lasts, and we don’t know if you still spread the virus once vaccinated”. The mask police are actively creating millions of more people not taking the vaccine. If your life doesn’t change for getting the vaccine, there is no reason to get it.

Until that changes, a lot of people won’t get it. As of now, it doesn’t change your day to day life at all.

If we want to get people to take the vaccine they need a reason to. That can be rewarding them by removing mask and social distancing requirements or punishing them by requiring vaccine passports. But rewarding them will work faster than punitive measures which would undoubtedly end up in court.

This is a great example of only looking at short term impacts over long term advancement. It's like chasing quarterly profits even if investing in longer term projects that reduce quarterly profits would generate larger long term profits. Never realizing the larger long term gains because only the next quarter matters.

1. As soon as we get community spread reduced enough, all mitigations will go away.
2. Once enough people are vaccinated, community spread will dramatically decrease.
3. People getting vaccinated faster will accelerate number 2 which will lead to number 1.

It's that simple. That's the reason to get vaccinated.

Let's pretend that we vaccinate people as fast as possible and everyone gets the vaccine, in this simulation, assume we reach enough people that by July 1, community spread plummets and all mitigations can be removed. Someone who finished the vaccine in April had to wait through May and June still using mitigation efforts. While someone who didn't complete vaccination until the end of June only had to wait through two weeks still using mitigation efforts. Was the person who waited really better off?

Now, let's change the scenario. Because those people in April were not able to immediately stop mitigation efforts, they didn't bother with the vaccine. The roll out slowed. Come July 1, not enough people are vaccinated and community spread is still to high to eliminate mitigations. A massive marketing push is done to get more people vaccinated but it takes until September 1 before enough are vaccinated, community spread plummets and all mitigations can be removed. Those people that couldn't be bothered to get vaccinated earlier had to go an extra two months of mitigation restrictions. Were they better off now by waiting? Do they just like extending the time while mitigations are required?

Let's change it again. Even after the marketing push, people still don't bother because they see no immediate point. Community spread never plummets, mitigations continue being required into 2022. Are they better off yet?

 

[boufa]

And I cite examples of family friends who have died in vehicle accidents who were tagged as "covid deaths" and get laughed at and called a liar.

Falsifying a death certificate is a felony in every state in the US. Period... full stop. No doctor is going to knowingly falsify a death certificate for any reason that does not benefit him directly. (hopefully never, but definitely not for the hospital's financial gain). The doctor would lose their license and likely their freedom (jail), as well as waste all of the money that they spent going to medical school.

There may be a few incidents where mistakes have been made, maybe even a singular doctor who falsified... but as others have said, they are a very rare exception. You don't need to show me an example... you need to show me a large pile of examples.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I've been seeing a lot of stupid behavior here in NJ over the past few weeks, for both old and young people.

The past few weeks? I’ve been vacationing and visiting my neighbor state for 50 years and I’ve seen it the whole time.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How many of the 574,000 deaths were actually motorcyle accidents? And were every other country also fudging their death certificates?

View attachment 543686

Shhhhh!

you’ll blow his mind if you use the “deaths above average” stats...which we learned about this time last year

 

[Disney Experience]

Here is an interesting tidbit. Lack of sleep after being vaccinated seems to lower the antibody response to the vaccine (Which is not what you want). So after getting vaccinated avoid sleep deprivation for a time.

Could a good night's sleep improve COVID-19 vaccine efficacy?

More than 2 million people have died from COVID-19, caused by SARS-CoV-2.1 In an unprecedented effort to develop vaccines to control the COVID-19 pandemic, mRNA, protein subunit, and viral vector-based vaccines have been developed within an extraordinarily swift timeframe. However, the efficacy...

www.thelancet.com

One caveat from the studies (and is stated in the article):

Whether reduced antibody production due to sleep loss can impact vaccine efficacy remains largely undetermined.

 

[Tom P.]

There are now three large scale, reputable studies -- the CDC, the Mayo Clinic, and the Israeli study -- that all validate that people who are vaccinated do not carry the virus. The vaccine does not just prevent symptoms, it prevents transmission. Every single piece of data that has been collected supports that. And the CDC director has now confirmed that publicly.

There is no reason for a fully vaccinated person to be wearing a mask, socially distancing, or practicing any other mitigation measures. None. There is zero benefit. This is not anti-science, it is not Covid denial, it is not some Trump MAGA conspiracy garbage, it is what the scientific evidence has shown us -- not once, but in repeated studies.

If you want people to get vaccinated, and get vaccinated quickly, the single most effective messaging you could implement would be a wide scale campaign of "get vaccinated and go back to normal." That's it. That will get shots in arms more effectively than any other message you could send, bar none. This is what the government needs to be saying at all levels immediately.

 

[trainplane3]

Agreed. There are many studies coming out that show lingering effects and damage to the lungs and brain of people who've had covid. Even if they were asymptomatic. We have no idea what the long-term impact to people's lives may be.

This.
As someone that really got back into running last year, I don't want to risk my lungs getting all screwed up.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

correct...so until further study or findings...

“everyone SHUT UP and arms out”

CDC 3:16

Vax skeptics and mask skeptics are generally the same people. If you said "get your vaccine and you can burn all of your masks," vax hesitancy would disappear overnight.

 

[Stupido]

This is huge news. Further confirmation that vaccinated people not carrying the virus is really incredible for getting the world back in orfer.

 

[Disney Experience]

There are now three large scale, reputable studies -- the CDC, the Mayo Clinic, and the Israeli study -- that all validate that people who are vaccinated do not carry the virus. The vaccine does not just prevent symptoms, it prevents transmission. Every single piece of data that has been collected supports that. And the CDC director has now confirmed that publicly.

There is no reason for a fully vaccinated person to be wearing a mask, socially distancing, or practicing any other mitigation measures. None. There is zero benefit. This is not anti-science, it is not Covid denial, it is not some Trump MAGA conspiracy garbage, it is what the scientific evidence has shown us -- not once, but in repeated studies.

If you want people to get vaccinated, and get vaccinated quickly, the single most effective messaging you could implement would be a wide scale campaign of "get vaccinated and go back to normal." That's it. That will get shots in arms more effectively than any other message you could send, bar none. This is what the government needs to be saying at all levels immediately.

I would agree that the vaccines greatly reduce the chances of asymptomatic and symptomatic covid. It also reduces greatly the probability of transmission, as well as viral load.

But nothing is absolute. The MRNA have about 1/20th the number of covid cases compared to the placebo group. Note that means some vaccinated carry the virus.(The study only measured symptomatic cases). (Israel results showed asymptomatic greatly reduced [but not eliminated] too.,)

The vaccinated do have a much lower (as a group (R factor)). So other mitigations that lower the R factor may be "partially" redundant (as an aggregate).

There is a society limit on how long people who have vaccinated themselves are willing to do other mitigations. That is why we all should desire to get as many people vaccinated to decrease the need for those other mitigations.

But the vaccinated may carry the virus. They are just much less likely to than the unvaccinated.

The other benefit of other mitigations is the slight reduction in the chance of a vaccine resistant mutation from getting into a vaccinated person.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There are now three large scale, reputable studies -- the CDC, the Mayo Clinic, and the Israeli study -- that all validate that people who are vaccinated do not carry the virus. The vaccine does not just prevent symptoms, it prevents transmission. Every single piece of data that has been collected supports that. And the CDC director has now confirmed that publicly.

There is no reason for a fully vaccinated person to be wearing a mask, socially distancing, or practicing any other mitigation measures. None. There is zero benefit. This is not anti-science, it is not Covid denial, it is not some Trump MAGA conspiracy garbage, it is what the scientific evidence has shown us -- not once, but in repeated studies.

If you want people to get vaccinated, and get vaccinated quickly, the single most effective messaging you could implement would be a wide scale campaign of "get vaccinated and go back to normal." That's it. That will get shots in arms more effectively than any other message you could send, bar none. This is what the government needs to be saying at all levels immediately.

If people who are vaccinated (me and near everyone I know in this tree hugging, enlightened state) drop the masks...then the fools who are not get more lax and hurt themselves and grandma and the kids.

this is very simple...the public is not collectively “bright”

if we were storming Omaha beach...we all wear the helmets. Even if the Wehrmacht is ONLY shooting in your direction.

not forever...but until stupidity is over.

why is Disney hard A about masks when Florida is saying “you ain’t telling me what to do!!!”??

...liability for one...but also the longterm play that they don’t want “gambling” with public Health on their resume.

they are judging the best course for longterm gain. And I’d believe them...cause nobody is better with data and manipulation.

 

[JoeCamel]

Are CDC Guidelines for Reporting COVID-19 Deaths Inflating Numbers?

An opinion issued by a doctor serving in Minnesota's Legislature gained traction with right-wing news outlets.

www.snopes.com

Was a Fatal Motorcycle Crash Listed Among COVID-19 Deaths in Florida?

A case that was initially tallied among coronavirus deaths in 2020 caused some confusion.

www.snopes.com

The total number is materially accurate. Obviously there's some dirty data but not enough to alter the general fact pattern.

That said, politicians and the media have definitely been guilty of deliberately manipulating *specific, individual cases* into convenient anecdotes that were not entirely accurate. They're not doing it to seize power or instill communism or anything nefarious but they're still doing it. This was especially true early in the crisis when they were trying to emphasize that the virus can infect or kill young people without comorbidities.

And today there is this. We may never know the true number but I hope we can agree that whatever it is it is too high a cost.

New Report Suggests Florida Undercounted COVID-19 Deaths by Thousands

New research suggests that Florida experienced 4,924 excess deaths that possibly should have been counted as resulting from COVID-19 but ultimately were not.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Vax skeptics and mask skeptics are generally the same people. If you said "get your vaccine and you can burn all of your masks," vax hesitancy would disappear overnight.

you’re not gonna punch through the romulans shields with just the phasers, Mr. Worf...gonna need the photons.

 

[danlb_2000]

Does anyone know what data he is referring to?

 

[Heppenheimer]

Here is an interesting tidbit. Lack of sleep after being vaccinated seems to lower the antibody response to the vaccine (Which is not what you want). So after getting vaccinated avoid sleep deprivation for a time.

Could a good night's sleep improve COVID-19 vaccine efficacy?

More than 2 million people have died from COVID-19, caused by SARS-CoV-2.1 In an unprecedented effort to develop vaccines to control the COVID-19 pandemic, mRNA, protein subunit, and viral vector-based vaccines have been developed within an extraordinarily swift timeframe. However, the efficacy...

www.thelancet.com

One caveat from the studies (and is stated in the article):

Luckily, I wanted to do nothing but sleep the day after I received my second dose!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And today there is this. We may never know the true number but I hope we can agree that whatever it is it is too high a cost.

New Report Suggests Florida Undercounted COVID-19 Deaths by Thousands

New research suggests that Florida experienced 4,924 excess deaths that possibly should have been counted as resulting from COVID-19 but ultimately were not.

www.yahoo.com

Florida has been audited twice, by both the Trump administration and the Biden administration.

 

[Disney Experience]

Does anyone know what data he is referring to?

Maybe he is over simplifying the data that shows that the vaccinated have very little chance of even getting asymptomatic covid.

From old animal studies in the lab the Pfizer vaccinated primates showed no detectable virus in nose or lungs three days after being challenged (i.e. infected with covid)

But people have a hard time dealing with non-absolutes. So perhaps he(Ryan) was just rounding up to the nearest absolute.

Edit: I clicked on the twitter link and most responders to his comment also said he was wrong in stating it as an absolute. That his paraphrase was not what the CDC director said.

 

[danlb_2000]

There are now three large scale, reputable studies -- the CDC, the Mayo Clinic, and the Israeli study -- that all validate that people who are vaccinated do not carry the virus. The vaccine does not just prevent symptoms, it prevents transmission. Every single piece of data that has been collected supports that. And the CDC director has now confirmed that publicly.

There is no reason for a fully vaccinated person to be wearing a mask, socially distancing, or practicing any other mitigation measures. None. There is zero benefit. This is not anti-science, it is not Covid denial, it is not some Trump MAGA conspiracy garbage, it is what the scientific evidence has shown us -- not once, but in repeated studies.

If you want people to get vaccinated, and get vaccinated quickly, the single most effective messaging you could implement would be a wide scale campaign of "get vaccinated and go back to normal." That's it. That will get shots in arms more effectively than any other message you could send, bar none. This is what the government needs to be saying at all levels immediately.

In general I would agree with this, but the idea breaks down when vaccinated and unvaccinated people have to mix, because it would make enforcement of masking to difficult.

 

[ABQ]

Does anyone know what data he is referring to?

She, would be Rochelle Walensky, the director of the Centers for Disease Control. Hard to juxtapose that line of hers with the same one of doom and gloom though. So it's CDC data.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Hard to juxtapose that line of hers with the same one of doom and gloom though.

She cited them both in the same Maddow interview. Last night I believe.

We have three studies showing that asymptomatic transmission is extremely rare in vaccinated individuals. CDC data, Mayo Clinic data, and Israeli data all say the same thing.