Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[havoc315]

In this country if you re a health care worker and you still aren’t vaccinated it’s your own fault at this point, due to dropping demand my systems employee clinic will stop vaccinating first doses to employees at the end of this week. We are thankfully protected now, and the push moves out to convincing the general public to get the shot.

The discussion was about hospital visitor restrictions over the last 12 months.

 

[Touchdown]

The discussion was about hospital visitor restrictions over the last 12 months.

Well I think it’s time for those to be lifted too, it’s been much easier to get people exceptions as of late, and as long as their masked and not symptomatic I think we need to remove restrictions. It’s not right to keep family members from dying or sick relatives unless there is a really good public health reason. At least in my area I would be all for removing those now.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The only thing weird is that some people aren't willing to make small sacrifices so that those doctors and nurses can care for their loved ones with lower risk to themselves.

Soldiers need to risk their lives. Does that mean we shouldn't give soldiers body armor and other means to protect themselves??

"Letting grandma die alone" is not a small sacrifice.

 

[_caleb]

unless there is a really good public health reason

I can think of one

 

[Flugell]

Sorry, can’t work out how to quote!
In reply to Captain America and his statement that 331,000,000 people have lost a year of their lives, I have a lot of sympathy with that perspective but I have more sympathy with the 500,000+ who have lost every year of their lives.
There is no easy answer and each of us have a different perspective based on experience, age and vulnerability etc., each are valid viewpoints but my overwhelming thought is that once dead forever dead.

 

[dreday3]

And I would counter that many millions of people had a year out of their lives where they actually slowed down, spent more time with immediate family, learned to cook better, and wholly improved their lives as a result.

Isn't there a meme out there that touts the fact that someone who read a few articles online on the internet suddenly knows more than world-renowned scientists?

I read this a lot - that many people almost found this experience enjoyable and positive.

I'm not debating if we had to do it, we did, but I don't know anyone (singles, teens, couples, parents, grandparents, families) that would say their lives are better because of this. Everyone I know pretty much hated it.

 

[correcaminos]

In this country if you re a health care worker and you still aren’t vaccinated it’s your own fault at this point, due to dropping demand my systems employee clinic will stop vaccinating first doses to employees at the end of this week. We are thankfully protected now, and the push moves out to convincing the general public to get the shot.

Or waiting because they tested positive before vaccines were available to them. Or had monoclonal treatments so also waiting 90 days, but those are far and few between (though I do know personally of a few).

 

[_caleb]

"Letting grandma die alone" is not a small sacrifice.

I agree that it's not. Most of the sacrifices that most of us have been asked to make would seem to fall into the "minor inconveniences" category. But losing one's livelihood, suffering alone, etc. are indeed significant and should not be taken lightly.

My point still stands that had we really been concerned with these things all along, we'd all be pulling in the same direction with strict personal commitments to following guidelines and recommendations.

 

[correcaminos]

"Letting grandma die alone" is not a small sacrifice.

Have you lost a loved one during the pandemic to know what this really means? Just asking... because while it wasn't grandma I know the feeling. In the early days they did die alone. Later on they allowed visits for end of life

 

[bdearl41]

That comparison is meaningless. It’s about using the mix of the best tools available at any time. Nobody is saying masks are better than vaccines. Nobody is saying use masks instead of vaccines.
But guess what... if a person has 90% protection from a vaccine... AND they wear a 70% effective mask, then the combined effect is 97% protection. (Ahh, statistics 304 paying off).

and when we reach herd immunity, there is almost 100% protection...without a mask.

I was speaking to the duality of those who push the mask but say the vaccine is insufficient. But yes. Your statistics are correct. My biggest point is get the vaccine.

 

[havoc315]

Well I think it’s time for those to be lifted too, it’s been much easier to get people exceptions as of late, and as long as their masked and not symptomatic I think we need to remove restrictions. It’s not right to keep family members from dying or sick relatives unless there is a really good public health reason. At least in my area I would be all for removing those now.

The large NYC hospitals have already been gradually relaxing those rules for a while.
The zero-visitors were really only at the height of overwhelmed hospitals last Spring.

For example, at New York Presbyterian since January:

"At all other NYP locations, visitation hours for adult patients are from 2:00 pm to 6:00 pm daily. During this timeframe, one adult visitor is permitted per day for a maximum stay of four hours. We ask that this visitor remain at the bedside throughout the visit unless directed by the care team, and the visitor not convene in any waiting space or communal area inside the Hospital."

That seems to me to be a pretty decent balance.

 

[ABQ]

Yes, but we learned that unless mitigation was continued we would go right back to the healthcare system being overwhelmed.

I agree entirely, what I'm speaking about is in the post vaccination era. At that time, if the numbers are staying down, I will be more than ready to see smiling faces again, go to a sold out hockey game and shout at the refs when they blow a call, see a concert, in person and scream, all elbow to elbow with others.

 

[JAKECOTCenter]

I mean I would say if supply stops being the primary problem by April the country will be back to normal this year. But that also comes with its own problems like getting more people to administer and get the vaccine hesitancy dealt with

 

[danlb_2000]

Well I think it’s time for those to be lifted too, it’s been much easier to get people exceptions as of late, and as long as their masked and not symptomatic I think we need to remove restrictions. It’s not right to keep family members from dying or sick relatives unless there is a really good public health reason. At least in my area I would be all for removing those now.

I was just talking to a co-worker of mine who went to visit a relative in the hospital in NJ and they now have an extensive set guidelines for visitation that has allowed them to open things up more.

 

[bdearl41]

Depends where in Asia, as well as the interaction. For example,I spent a month pre-pandemic in Hanoi. In crowds, on planes, etc, 20-50% would wear masks.

I too spent time in Hanoi and also right outside. It was for sure the location that I saw the most masks in. This was a while back 12 years ago but I was told that they were worn more prevalently there due to the pollution problems. All those motor scooters.

 

[danlb_2000]

The large NYC hospitals have already been gradually relaxing those rules for a while.
The zero-visitors were really only at the height of overwhelmed hospitals last Spring.

For example, at New York Presbyterian since January:

"At all other NYP locations, visitation hours for adult patients are from 2:00 pm to 6:00 pm daily. During this timeframe, one adult visitor is permitted per day for a maximum stay of four hours. We ask that this visitor remain at the bedside throughout the visit unless directed by the care team, and the visitor not convene in any waiting space or communal area inside the Hospital."

That seems to me to be a pretty decent balance.

Does this also include COVID patients? The local hospital I was just looking at allows most visitation, but still not for COVID patients.

 

[havoc315]

Does this also include COVID patients? The local hospital I was just looking at allows most visitation, but still not for COVID patients.

To my knowledge, it includes Covid patients. There is no visitation allowed in the ER for social distancing. There is more "visitation" allowed in L&D... So there are some ward-specific changes. There is also greater latitude for "end of life" visits.

 

[havoc315]

I too spent time in Hanoi and also right outside. It was for sure the location that I saw the most masks in. This was a while back 12 years ago but I was told that they were worn more prevalently there due to the pollution problems. All those motor scooters.

Yup..... nearly 90% of people on those motor scooters wear them. Definitely more of a pollution issue for them...

Wasn't it fun crossing the street in Hanoi??

 

[bdearl41]

Yup..... nearly 90% of people on those motor scooters wear them. Definitely more of a pollution issue for them...

Wasn't it fun crossing the street in Hanoi??

I like to use the word exhilarating versus fun.

 

[Disney Experience]

That comparison is meaningless. It’s about using the mix of the best tools available at any time. Nobody is saying masks are better than vaccines. Nobody is saying use masks instead of vaccines.
But guess what... if a person has 90% protection from a vaccine... AND they wear a 70% effective mask, then the combined effect is 97% protection. (Ahh, statistics 304 paying off).

and when we reach herd immunity, there is almost 100% protection...without a mask.

I have not caught up to the six pages after this post, so others may have mentioned the following.

You’ll need to marry you statistics class with other classes. The mitigation may or may not be purely additive. So it is not a pure math problem unless you include many other variables. For example the mask may decrease viral load on host and with the vaccine that brings its effectiveness up. Or it could have overlap and some of mitigation is redundant. I could go on with speculation, but it is not black and white. But I totally understand the use of a simplified model of mask and vaccine interaction. But just wanted to point out that it is a model, not a mathematical or clinical certitude.