News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[ToTBellHop]

The person who initially broke the news of this project weeks before it was announced (WDW Pro) said the budget is about $50 million. There was an even lower number floating around ($30-$35 million) but it was shared privately and I can't provide the source. So feel free to take with a grain of salt. Even if it's $50 mil, prepare for the worst. MansionButler84 mentioned last year that it would need $200 mil to do any sort of justice to the quality of Splash Mtn.

For example, I believe Frozen at EPCOT cost around $50 million (not including the new bathrooms and meet and greet but just the ride, everything together was around $75 mil). All of the sets were gutted, and the new Frozen sets had considerably less detail for the most part. Maelstrom already had a few stretches where the scenery was somewhat sparse, but still managed to lose a lot of detail. Splash Mtn is a far larger, more complex and richly detailed ride than Maelstrom was. There's far more to lose, especially if it has an anemic budget.

Absolutely. $50m won’t cut it. And what an awful statement if they say, “we are going to build a ride for our Black princess!” but it’s terrible.

Why couldn’t they have built a new E-ticket water ride based upon PatF at DHS, where we’d all be universally celebrating the decision (and which desperately needs a water ride to cool us off after getting sun poisoning in Toy Story Land)?It would fit in perfectly in lieu of Launch Bay and a couple updates to the two shows in the area could give them a brand new Animation Courtyard for maybe $300 million (a bargain price for Disney).

 

[EagleScout610]

Absolutely. $50m won’t cut it. And what an awful statement if they say, “we are going to build a ride for our Black princess!” but it’s terrible

Thats the thing that bugs me. I'm all for Tiana getting a ride, but don't say "Its her own brand new attraction" Uh...no. A. Its a reskin of a beloved attraction. B. Its about Louie looking for a Trumpet (idk if that's actually the plot) and C. Those are the exact sets from Splash Mountain.

 

[Brer Panther]

Reminder that Frederick Chambers was the guy who initially came up with the idea of retheming Splash Mountain to The Princess and the Frog, causing that idea to gain traction and starting this big, crazy mess in the first place (unless Disney orchestrated everything to avoid backlash).

 

[trainplane3]

Absolutely. $50m won’t cut it. And what an awful statement if they say, “we are going to build a ride for our Black princess!” but it’s terrible.

Why couldn’t they have built a new E-ticket water ride based upon PatF at DHS, where we’d all be universally celebrating the decision (and which desperately needs a water ride to cool us off after getting sun poisoning in Toy Story Land)?It would fit in perfectly in lieu of Launch Bay and a couple updates to the two shows in the area could give them a brand new Animation Courtyard for maybe $300 million (a bargain price for Disney).

I have a feeling this what'll happen:

 

[matt9112]

Absolutely. $50m won’t cut it. And what an awful statement if they say, “we are going to build a ride for our Black princess!” but it’s terrible.

Why couldn’t they have built a new E-ticket water ride based upon PatF at DHS, where we’d all be universally celebrating the decision (and which desperately needs a water ride to cool us off after getting sun poisoning in Toy Story Land)?It would fit in perfectly in lieu of Launch Bay and a couple updates to the two shows in the area could give them a brand new Animation Courtyard for maybe $300 million (a bargain price for Disney).

Never really thought about it too much but your right Hollywood studios does need a water ride. Disneyfi a classix chutes the chutes? Disney version of jurrasic. Mix of indoor outdoor show scenes than a single drop of some kind and its over.

 

[412]

The person who initially broke the news of this project weeks before it was announced (WDW Pro) said the budget is about $50 million. There was an even lower number floating around ($30-$35 million) but it was shared privately and I can't provide the source. So feel free to take with a grain of salt. Even if it's $50 mil, prepare for the worst. MansionButler84 mentioned last year that it would need $200 mil to do any sort of justice to the quality of Splash Mtn.

For example, I believe Frozen at EPCOT cost around $50 million (not including the new bathrooms and meet and greet but just the ride, everything together was around $75 mil). All of the sets were gutted, and the new Frozen sets had considerably less detail for the most part. Maelstrom already had a few stretches where the scenery was somewhat sparse, but still managed to lose a lot of detail. Splash Mtn is a far larger, more complex and richly detailed ride than Maelstrom was. There's far more to lose, especially if it has an anemic budget.

My hope is that they leave most of the backgrounds intact. If they're just replacing the main characters and cleverly recontextualizing existing sets, I think $50 million might be acceptable.

In other words, if they're replacing all of the animatronics on the finale ferry, $50 million = disaster.

If they're just teaching those animatronics a new song, $50 million might be OK.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I hope they leave everything intact and go spend the money elsewhere.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

In other words, if they're replacing all of the animatronics on the finale ferry, $50 million = disaster.

Agreed. The thing about the animatronics over at Splash, is the fact that they’re all run off of a pneumatic system, or rather pressurized air. Which of course means, there has to be an air compressor, a rather large one onsite for them to run. Disney’s latest animatronic figures are all electrically operated figures using industrial electric motors, the kinds I’m sure they’ll use for the figures in PatF. What this means, is that they’ll have to do some heavy modification work backstage to allow for the new generation figures to run, alongside the original America Sings AAs. Either this, or they’ll find a way to convert the old generation figures to an electric system. We’ll see what they come up with.

 

[Brer Panther]

My hope is that they leave most of the backgrounds intact. If they're just replacing the main characters and cleverly recontextualizing existing sets, I think $50 million might be acceptable.

Leaving the backgrounds intact for the Magic Kingdom version likely won't work. The Magic Kingdom versions' backgrounds are more of a country farm-ish forest, not a swampy bayou.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Agreed. The thing about the animatronics over at Splash, is the fact that they’re all run off of a pneumatic system, or rather pressurized air. Which of course means, there has to be an air compressor, a rather large one onsite for them to run. Disney’s latest animatronic figures are all electrically operated figures using industrial electric motors, the kinds I’m sure they’ll use for the figures in PatF. What this means, is that they’ll have to do some heavy modification work backstage to allow for the new generation figures to run, alongside the original America Sings AAs. Either this, or they’ll find a way to convert the old generation figures to an electric system. We’ll see what they come up with.

Helpful background.

Dumb question: are the original DL AS AAs only on a pneumatic system or are the purpose-built WDW and TDL AAs running on this system as well?

I ask because I wonder if this (in addition to other structural issues) may run into cost overruns unique to CA or all the versions?
While it would appear DL would be the thematically better suited attraction to convert, I’m wondering if the antiquated version could also lead to higher costs there than FL.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Agreed. The thing about the animatronics over at Splash, is the fact that they’re all run off of a pneumatic system, or rather pressurized air. Which of course means, there has to be an air compressor, a rather large one onsite for them to run. Disney’s latest animatronic figures are all electrically operated figures using industrial electric motors, the kinds I’m sure they’ll use for the figures in PatF. What this means, is that they’ll have to do some heavy modification work backstage to allow for the new generation figures to run, alongside the original America Sings AAs. Either this, or they’ll find a way to convert the old generation figures to an electric system. We’ll see what they come up with.

Unless very very very little is done, the facility will have to be brought up to contemporary codes. Moving pneumatic lines and adding power isn’t exactly a huge hurdle.

 

[UNCgolf]

Unless very very very little is done, the facility will have to be brought up to contemporary codes. Moving pneumatic lines and adding power isn’t exactly a huge hurdle.

They could blow through a significant part of their budget just on that.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Dumb question: are the original DL AS AAs only on a pneumatic system or are the purpose-built WDW and TDL AAs running on this system as well?

Yes, they’re all pneumatic over at WDW and TDL as well, though I could be wrong. I know hydraulic systems have also been used in the past for more demanding applications, so there is a chance everything in all three SM attractions is actually run off a hydraulic system rather than a pneumatic system. Either way, they will have to work around older technology when this
re-theme is eventually underway.

 

[JoeCamel]

Yes, they’re all pneumatic over at WDW and TDL as well, though I could be wrong. I know hydraulic systems have also been used in the past for more demanding applications, so there is a chance everything in all three SM attractions is actually run off a hydraulic system rather than a pneumatic system. Either way, they will have to work around older technology when this
re-theme is eventually underway.

Ahem - Buzzy...

 

[lazyboy97o]

They could blow through a significant part of their budget just on that.

The risk associated with approving a renovation without first performing a condition assessment is one I have previously mentioned, but it is also something that would get its own line item. Budgets aren’t just pulled out thin air and I would give no credence to the $50 million due to its provenance and when it was claimed.

 

[UNCgolf]

The risk associated with approving a renovation without first performing a condition assessment is one I have previously mentioned, but it is also something that would get its own line item. Budgets aren’t just pulled out thin air and I would give no credence to the $50 million due to its provenance and when it was claimed.

I wasn't referring to the rumored $50 million number -- just that it could be a significant investment to bring the building up to code (especially since everything seems to cost far more for Disney) which could cascade down to the money spent on the actual redesign.

Of course, since the DL and WDW versions are different anyways, they really can't do a one size fits all design. They will have to make changes to whatever is done at DL to make it fit the WDW version. I'm not sure how they will factor that in to the overall budget.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I wasn't referring to the rumored $50 million number -- just that it could be a significant investment to bring the building up to code (especially since everything seems to cost far more for Disney) which could cascade down to the money spent on the actual redesign.

Of course, since the DL and WDW versions are different anyways, they really can't do a one size fits all design. They will have to make changes to whatever is done at DL to make it fit the WDW version. I'm not sure how they will factor that in to the overall budget.

It very well could be incredibly costly but had they done their due diligence the alternative would have been demolition, not keeping the attraction.

Even if the attractions were near identical in terms of show they could not do a one size fits all design. Show sets can be near identical and that is the case now, but the technical issues would still be different with a clone. There are differences between the climate and codes that would require different solutions for “identical” rides.

 

[UNCgolf]

It very well could be incredibly costly but had they done their due diligence the alternative would have been demolition, not keeping the attraction.

Even if the attractions were near identical in terms of show they could not do a one size fits all design. Show sets can be near identical and that is the case now, but the technical issues would still be different with a clone. There are differences between the climate and codes that would require different solutions for “identical” rides.

My reference to the one size fits all design was for the show sets, not the code issues. I've never been on the DL version but my understanding is there are some relatively significant differences in the size of the rooms etc. that means they can't just come up with the retheme plan for the DL version, produce two of everything, and drop them into the WDW version without any changes.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'm sadly expecting most if not all of the current animatronics to be scrapped due to their basic shapes not fitting with PATF's characters. Most of SOTS/Splash's animals are extremely "anthropomorphic", which is a hybrid of animal AND human characteristics and proportions. The type of designs also used in Robin Hood, Great Mouse Detective and Zootopia. PATF uses more realistically shaped animals such as 101 Dalmations, Bambi and Lion King.

There are a few smaller simpler figures that could possibly be reskinned such as Roadrunner, Mr Bluebird and the squatting toads or turtles. They're proportioned more like real animals. But the larger frogs, rabbits, foxes, chickens, geese and most other characters use anthropomorphic designs and don't remotely fit with the animals in PATF. But nor are their shapes suitable for reskinning as humans either.

Louis might be an exception. He's the only real animal who learned to move and walk like a human. His size and proportions might possibly work as a reskinned Brer Bear figure. The frog versions of Tiana and Naveen also move around like humans, but allegedly they're only appearing as humans in the ride. Even as frogs, none of the ride's figures fit their designs.

I expect the new ride will be very sparse and video-heavy with very few animatronic figures.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I have the overall impression that the more Disney gets into this project's development, they're finding out it will be much more expensive and time consuming than anticipated and that's why we haven't seen or heard much about it since June. At a certain point, you have to really wonder if the economics of it are really worth it, since it won't do anything to increase park capacity and may not generate significantly more interest in the ride long term.

I remember Luigi's Flying Tires at DCA being described as Lasseter's vanity project. That people knew it wasn't going to really work as intended, but he wanted to bring back the Flying Saucers in some form, so it got pushed through at great expense, only to change a few years later. I think this is another vanity project for WDI. A costly PR move that doesn't necessarily make the ride better or more popular.