Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

[iLikeMountains]

That study seems askew. Why would you compare any western country to South Korea. You'll find people in South Korea following recommended guidelines, wearing masks at a very high rate and social distancing.

South Korea has a Covid death rate of 1 of every 42,147. Is there any state better than 1 in 2000?

I agree with a comparison to South Korea skewing the study. There's the cultural implications you mention as well as the mass testing they were performing very early on in the pandemic. They were able to pinpoint and quarantine areas with outbreaks quickly before the numbers got out of control without shutting down the entire country.

 

[el_super]

I agree with a comparison to South Korea skewing the study. There's the cultural implications you mention as well as the mass testing they were performing very early on in the pandemic. They were able to pinpoint and quarantine areas with outbreaks quickly before the numbers got out of control without shutting down the entire country.

That makes the most sense to me. South Korea seemed to be absolutely militant about controlling the spread of the virus early on. In the implementation of an actual medically advised pandemic response, economic lockdowns would not have been needed.

 

[Figgy1]

@TP2000 today's new video. Looks good and I have what I need to make it. Maybe this weekend seeing it may snow tomorrow. Now I'll leave you to your bickering and talk of convertible shops

 

[TP2000]

@TP2000 today's new video. Looks good and I have what I need to make it. Maybe this weekend seeing it may snow tomorrow. Now I'll leave you to your bickering and talk of convertible shops

I love it! Sadly, we are having a mid-winter heat wave here in SoCal. It's gloriously sunny and 90 degrees on the dot right now at 2pm. (The Real Feel temp is only 85 though, because it's extremely dry desert heat with only 7% humidity. Yes, seven percent!)

I had a cold salad for lunch on the patio, and my evening palate is leading me to a local sushi place for cold fish and a cold Japanese beer for dinner.

That hearty and warming Risotto will have to wait for winter to return. But I bet the convertible top place on Ball Road is doing gangbuster business with this perfect convertible weather!

Now back to bickering with my friends...

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

It was hot as heck today in the OC. I was working up in the Anaheim Hills and I felt it!

 

[Mac Tonight]

It was hot as heck today in the OC. I was working up in the Anaheim Hills and I felt it!

I shouldn’t have to even consider turning on the AC in mid-January, but got really close today.

Thankfully next week’s forecast has some cooler temps and rain coming through. *fingers crossed*

 

[TP2000]

That study seems askew. Why would you compare any western country to South Korea. You'll find people in South Korea following recommended guidelines, wearing masks at a very high rate and social distancing.

Everyone is wearing masks in public in SoCal. EVERYONE. You can't get into any store or restaurant or anything without a mask on. It's impossible to conduct any business without a mask.

The only time people are not wearing masks is when they are alone, or at home. Or hosting dinner parties and social events at their homes because the highly regulated/sanitized restaurant patios were forced to close by Sacramento back in November.

Seriously, there is no ability to exist out in public in SoCal without wearing a mask. And everyone is standing on their little squares taped to the ground, following the rules everywhere you go. What else can you expect from people???

 

[castleparker]

What else can you expect from people???

Social distancing....I don't know where you are where people are both wearing masks and social distancing. Where I live in Socal people are wearing masks but are still right on top of each other in places like stores and while waiting to take out food from inside restaurants. Masks are great but social distancing really seals the deal, which is why turncoat specified masks and social distancing. I also don't understand thinking that people would stop gathering in homes if Applebee's was open for dining. If transmission of the virus is occurring from mixed households gathering it makes no difference where they eat if they are mingling without masks.

 

[flutas]

Or hosting dinner parties and social events at their homes because the highly regulated/sanitized restaurant patios were forced to close by Sacramento back in November.

Shocking news flash here, COVID doesn't care if you have a "dinner party" (mixed household social gathering as Newsom calls them) at a restaurant or at your house. It will still spread if you aren't wearing a mask while eating...and since physics dictate you won't be wearing one while eating...maybe dinner parties are part of the problem?

 

[unmitigated disaster]

Shocking news flash here, COVID doesn't care if you have a "dinner party" (mixed household social gathering as Newsom calls them) at a restaurant or at your house. It will still spread if you aren't wearing a mask while eating...and since physics dictate you won't be wearing one while eating...maybe dinner parties are part of the problem?

But Covid doesn't affect or infect anyone under 65 and/or POC. Everyone knows this, so why not have a dinner party? Especially if you're white. Totally safe.

 

[TP2000]

Shocking news flash here, COVID doesn't care if you have a "dinner party" (mixed household social gathering as Newsom calls them) at a restaurant or at your house. It will still spread if you aren't wearing a mask while eating...and since physics dictate you won't be wearing one while eating...maybe dinner parties are part of the problem?

The problem is that there is no real Science & Data that proves that.

Los Angeles County was specifically taken to court about that. And they lost. Not only did they lose because they had no Science & Data to show outdoor restaurant dining spread Covid, the Contact Tracing data they did provide to the court showed that restaurants (indoor and outdoor) were responsible for only 3% of Covid transmission in the county of 10 million people. And the majority of that transmission was among the back of house staff working shoulder to shoulder in cramped and busy kitchens. Oops!

Los Angeles County lost that court case with a particularly saucy rebuke from the judge for the county's complete inability to provide any data or evidence to support their case.

In LA County, which is a good example of the nation as a whole as a very diverse county of 10 million people, 70% of Covid transmissions take place in the home, most often when the home is a crowded one with "more people living there than rooms" as the current bureaucrats call it (which is the latest nice way to say "poor folks!"). 3% of Covid transmission takes place at restaurants, and most of that is back in the kitchen.

So.... We closed outdoor dining at restaurants in November and pushed all the young folks into house parties and private homes for the holiday entertaining season. And I had more dinner and cocktail party invitations at private homes than I normally do at Christmastime, because no one could host anything at Capital Grille or Bluewater. Meanwhile, all the restaurants remained open for takeout and Doordash meaning the kitchen staff was still transmitting Covid to each other, albeit at a much smaller rate than private home transmission.

Science & Data! And Downtown Disney restaurants are all still closed, and it's going to be sunny and 88 degrees in Anaheim tomorrow and perfect weather for outdoor Socially Distanced patio dining.

 

[TP2000]

But Covid doesn't affect or infect anyone under 65 and/or POC. Everyone knows this, so why not have a dinner party? Especially if you're white. Totally safe.

What on God's green earth are you even talking about?

Covid certainly can, and does, infect those demographics. But Covid's impact on those demographics is far less impactful than it is on an 84 year old diabetic woman living her last few months of life in a Nursing Home.

We all make personal risk analysis on things. I think all of us have looked at the actual Science & Data on Covid and realized that if you have no co-morbidities that Covid is not going to kill you.

This type of personal risk analysis on Covid is exactly what Governor Newsom and First Partner did at The French Laundry back in November. They are both very smart people, who have all the latest data on Covid at their fingertips, and they knew that as very healthy people in their early 50's there was very little risk of Covid if they were to catch it at a dinner party. So they went. And even sat right next to the President of the California Medical Association at the same table for that long indoor maskless dinner party for 12. They did the risk analysis and they knew the risk to them personally was acceptable; if they got Covid they would probably get cold or flu symptoms, but not die. They might not even get symptoms, as many folks infected with Covid don't.

This type of dinner party shown below, not unlike ones I went to this past holiday season (but without those fabulous blue velvet chairs), should be up to each individual to make their own decision on whether or not to attend, based on their own health and risk analysis.

 

[TP2000]

I will say, I just saw the title of this thread and I laughed out loud. "Stay-At-Home Order", which is what it is still called and we are still technically under.

Except on this sunny weekend, Downtown Disney and Buena Vista Street will be open for your shopping pleasure. Selling nothing but wasteful luxuries and mindless fripperies and absolutely nothing any human needs to survive.

And the third-party restaurants will be selling take-out food, cooked in the cramped, busy kitchens in the back where most of the Covid transmission at restaurants take place. And Disney will be selling pre-made candy and cutesy snacks at Marcelines and Trolley Treats, made in Disneyland kitchens by CM's in the same workplace situation as the third-party kitchens.

Because... it's a Stay-At-Home Order! So don't stay home, get out and go to Downtown Disney this weekend!

 

[unmitigated disaster]

What on God's green earth are you even talking about?

Covid certainly can, and does, infect those demographics. But Covid's impact on those demographics is far less impactful than it is on an 84 year old diabetic woman living her last few months of life in a Nursing Home.

We all make personal risk analysis on things. I think all of us have looked at the actual Science & Data on Covid and realized that if you have no co-morbidities that Covid is not going to kill you.

This type of personal risk analysis on Covid is exactly what Governor Newsom and First Partner did at The French Laundry back in November. They are both very smart people, who have all the latest data on Covid at their fingertips, and they knew that as very healthy people in their early 50's there was very little risk of Covid if they were to catch it at a dinner party. So they went. And even sat right next to the President of the California Medical Association at the same table for that long indoor maskless dinner party for 12. They did the risk analysis and they knew the risk to them personally was acceptable; if they got Covid they would probably get cold or flu symptoms, but not die. They might not even get symptoms, as many folks infected with Covid don't.

This type of dinner party shown below, not unlike ones I went to this past holiday season (but without those fabulous blue velvet chairs), should be up to each individual to make their own decision on whether or not to attend, based on their own health and risk analysis.

And, of course, no one who isn't vulnerable is ever in contact with those who are. And **yes** people have died who have no co-morbidities. Or they can end up with long-term health issues.

I'm not going to defend Newsome or Pelosi for doing stupid things. But I sure as hell am going to side-eye everyone who decides THEY don't have to think about anyone's health but their own. I side-eye every hotel guest who stays with us who is clearly on vacation.

 

[flutas]

The problem is that there is no real Science & Data that proves that.

Los Angeles County was specifically taken to court about that. And they lost. Not only did they lose because they had no Science & Data to show outdoor restaurant dining spread Covid, the Contact Tracing data they did provide to the court showed that restaurants (indoor and outdoor) were responsible for only 3% of Covid transmission in the county of 10 million people. And the majority of that transmission was among the back of house staff working shoulder to shoulder in cramped and busy kitchens. Oops!

Los Angeles County lost that court case with a particularly saucy rebuke from the judge for the county's complete inability to provide any data or evidence to support their case.

In LA County, which is a good example of the nation as a whole as a very diverse county of 10 million people, 70% of Covid transmissions take place in the home, most often when the home is a crowded one with "more people living there than rooms" as the current bureaucrats call it (which is the latest nice way to say "poor folks!"). 3% of Covid transmission takes place at restaurants, and most of that is back in the kitchen.

So.... We closed outdoor dining at restaurants in November and pushed all the young folks into house parties and private homes for the holiday entertaining season. And I had more dinner and cocktail party invitations at private homes than I normally do at Christmastime, because no one could host anything at Capital Grille or Bluewater. Meanwhile, all the restaurants remained open for takeout and Doordash meaning the kitchen staff was still transmitting Covid to each other, albeit at a much smaller rate than private home transmission.

Science & Data! And Downtown Disney restaurants are all still closed, and it's going to be sunny and 88 degrees in Anaheim tomorrow and perfect weather for outdoor Socially Distanced patio dining.

I'll quickly quote myself here since all the arguments you present go in a circular direction. Including the comment about the lovely photo.

The virus doesn't just poof into existence at random homes at night like some sort of chinese caused boogyman.

Let's take a hypothetical scenario.

If someone gets it at DTD while dining with a friend, then gives it to 5 people in their household...didn't DTD just give it to 6 people? Yet as you would claim in this scenario "over 80% got it from their household, only 1 person got it from DTD."

The point of closing restaurants (as well as what should be more stores, like WOD, as well as government offices that can close) is to stop the 1 person from getting it, that would then spread it to their entire family. In my scenario presented, stopping 1 person from getting it would have actually stopped 6.

All in all, I give your dance around my question a 5.5/10 for it's artistic merits since you included that lovely photo.

 

[drizgirl]

The point of closing restaurants (as well as what should be more stores, like WOD, as well as government offices that can close) is to stop the 1 person from getting it, that would then spread it to their entire family. In my scenario presented, stopping 1 person from getting it would have actually stopped 6.

Time to go all Dr. Phil on this one. "How's that working for them?"

The problem is that the more you tighten things down, the more you drive people into their private homes where they gather in maskless groups for longer periods of time.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any limits. But I am saying that when you tighten things down too much, it can backfire (and likely has in CA). So I would say the correct degree of limitations is somewhere between none and what CA is doing.

 

[flutas]

Time to go all Dr. Phil on this one. "How's that working for them?"

The problem is that the more you tighten things down, the more you drive people into their private homes where they gather in maskless groups for longer periods of time.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any limits. But I am saying that when you tighten things down too much, it can backfire (and likely has in CA). So I would say the correct degree of limitations is somewhere between none and what CA is doing.

I’d side towards agreeing with you that you push people into homes. But people who are going to invite friends over we’re most likely going to go out and eat anyways.

So it’s kinda 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. It may stop some from going out and eating, but it would be very few.

I do want to clarify, I’m not saying the right thing to do is close restaurants down, I’m just saying there’s a reason for it. It’s a very nuanced distinction I feel like. Almost playing devils advocate.

 

[Sailor310]

I had to run an errand in El Segundo yesterday, so I came home along the beach (for the first time in a year, stupidly). The were lots of folks hanging out in the street areas blocked off for tables in front of restaurants in Manhattan Beach and Hermosa.

 

[TP2000]

I'm not going to defend Newsome or Pelosi for doing stupid things. But I sure as hell am going to side-eye everyone who decides THEY don't have to think about anyone's health but their own. I side-eye every hotel guest who stays with us who is clearly on vacation.

Do you say anything to them? Report them to the authorities?

Reconsider your career choice? Call out your employer publicly, or notify the authorities of your employer's malfeasance?

Or just "side-eye" them while collecting a paycheck paid by those customers?

 

[TP2000]

I had to run an errand in El Segundo yesterday, so I came home along the beach (for the first time in a year, stupidly). The were lots of folks hanging out in the street areas blocked off for tables in front of restaurants in Manhattan Beach and Hermosa.

Same is true in OC. The small mom 'n pop and strip mall type restaurants have all set up outdoor patio dining in front of their restaurants. Especially because the last two weeks have been sunny and warm.

A few independently owned restaurants in OC have also resumed indoor Socially Distanced dining rooms.

And every dive bar in OC is open, that's no secret.

The big chain restaurants mostly don't try that stunt, although I've noticed the local Chipotle and Panda Express and Yogurtland now have tables and chairs outside and they don't say anything if a customer just happens to sit there and eat their food after they get it "To Go".