George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
I guess we should just shut everything down forever then.
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- Thread starter TP2000
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I guess we should just shut everything down forever then.
You joke, but I worry about that sentiment.
Apparently no one is allowed to die ever again, not even an 85 year old diabetic woman in a Nursing Home.
Currently in the middle of winter, the flu season is non-existent this year. Either because everyone is fully masked and slathered in complimentary disinfectant every time they go into Target, or because most flu deaths are being chalked up as a Covid death. Or more likely, a combination of those two things.
Weekly U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report
Learn more about the weekly influenza surveillance report (FluView) prepared by the Influenza Division.
www.cdc.gov
What do we do a year from now when Covid is tamed, but Flu rages and is killing hundreds of darling school children per year like it did for the last 100 years but no one gave a damn about it back in the far-off year of 2019 or 2018? Do we keep the schools closed because Flu kills more young children per year than Covid did? Do we keep all restaurants closed? Does Disneyland close from November to April every year and operate at 25% of its 2019 design capacity in summer until it finally goes out of business?
The yardstick has been moved very high, it seems to me. No one is allowed to die ever again. And if they do, close all restaurants and theme parks immediately. Or something like that. The goalposts seem to move every few months.
Next December as Flu season begins to rage and Flu starts killing 40,000 to 60,000 Americans in one winter as it often does, is Disneyland allowed to operate and look like this just after the Christmas parade ends? This is DEADLY!
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unmitigated disaster
Well-Known Member
You were absolutely crushed when the WHO eradicated smallpox worldwide, weren't you?
I wrote my Congressman a very strongly worded letter!
Quoting you again, because it reminded me of a funny story I heard on KFI AM 640 this week...
Apparently in Norway, 23 old people living in Nursing Homes died in one week from complications of the Covid vaccine after their Nursing Home was vaccinated with the first dose earlier this month. There was media attention from the USA and Europe about this with all the requisite alarm and concern about more deaths.
Until a representative of Norway's Nursing Home bureaucracy came forth and reminded the media that on average 400 old Norwegians die in Norway's Nursing Homes every single week, so 23 of them dying after they got a Covid shot was nothing out of the ordinary.
Typical Scandinavian bluntness and realism on display there! We all die. Especially when we get old.
I'm a Swede, not a Norwegian, and there are key differences. But we share a realistic approach to aging and death.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
You missed the point of the concern. The concern was this due to an adverse reaction to the vaccine or not. That is very important from a vaccine distribution perspective, you don't want to give out a vaccine that is going to kill people. This "old people are going to die anyways" shtick is getting old my friend.Quoting you again, because it reminded me of a funny story I heard on KFI AM 640 this week...
Apparently in Norway, 23 old people living in Nursing Homes died in one week from complications of the Covid vaccine after their Nursing Home was vaccinated with the first dose earlier this month. There was media attention from the USA and Europe about this with all the requisite alarm and concern about more deaths.
Until a representative of Norway's Nursing Home bureaucracy came forth and reminded the media that on average 400 old Norwegians die in Norway's Nursing Homes every single week, so 23 of them dying after they got a Covid shot was nothing out of the ordinary.
Typical Scandinavian bluntness and realism on display there! We all die. Especially when we get old.
I'm a Swede, not a Norwegian, and there are key differences. But we share a realistic approach to aging and death.
el_super
Well-Known Member
I doubt that. I doubt that very much. After volumes have been written on the subject here, with almost unanimous sentiment pointing to Disneyland reopening (except that ONE guy) , you can't honestly believe that anyone here thinks restrictions will remain forever and Disneyland (or any business) will stay closed.
What is far more believable to me, is that you got caught in an indefensible position, making baseless claim after baseless claim, and are still dodging responsibility for it. Maybe next time the neighborlady tells you not to worry about that chinese flu going around, you won't automatically believe everything she says.
The time to argue about the severity of the virus and the methods for combating it has long since past. Disneyland, obviously, needs to reopen. The safest way to do that, is to make sure that the virus infection rate is controlled and hospitals are not overwhelmed.
Wear a mask, wash your hands and limit social gatherings.
castleparker
Well-Known Member
No they are not. Stop spreading disinformation like this, it justifies nothing.
How does one go from arguing that the "elderly should be vaccinated now" to "eh, they're gonna die anyway."
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Everyone’s gonna die anyway, so let’s be selfish and focus on getting ourselves back on RSR before we die—by wearing a mask, staying physically distanced, and getting your vaccine, if advisable, as soon as allowable. Hopefully you’ll be back to not getting a BG for RotR and settling for Smuggler’s Run by Memorial Day.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Everyone is physically distancing and wearing masks where I live in the congested San Fernando Valley which is in the even more congested Greater Los Angeles area. EVERYONE. EVERYWHERE. If this virus keeps spreading its because it’s just what viruses do in heavily populated areas and these stay at home orders may or may not make things worse as people gather more often privately where there are no regulations.
Anyway, I hope everyone who is so understanding of everything being closed is doing well. You know, the folks who haven’t been affected financially and have grown children or no children. In the meantime, my family and I are about to kill each other. There’s only so many times we can go for a drive or get a takeout. Even going to the park isn’t fun as my son inevitably wants to go to the playground and play with all the other (unmasked) kids In which case Disneyland is indeed safer. Ahhhh, homeschooling a 5 year old with a newborn at home and dealing with EDD for not only my unemployment claim (because of the large gap in between jobs right now) but with my wife’s disability claim during a pandemic where there is absolutely nowhere to go or anything to do. This is crazy. My son is kind of losing it. We re all losing it.
Anyway, I hope everyone who is so understanding of everything being closed is doing well. You know, the folks who haven’t been affected financially and have grown children or no children. In the meantime, my family and I are about to kill each other. There’s only so many times we can go for a drive or get a takeout. Even going to the park isn’t fun as my son inevitably wants to go to the playground and play with all the other (unmasked) kids In which case Disneyland is indeed safer. Ahhhh, homeschooling a 5 year old with a newborn at home and dealing with EDD for not only my unemployment claim (because of the large gap in between jobs right now) but with my wife’s disability claim during a pandemic where there is absolutely nowhere to go or anything to do. This is crazy. My son is kind of losing it. We re all losing it.
el_super
Well-Known Member
If the virus keeps spreading, at the rate it has been, it will be due to people violation health recommendations. Wearing masks in public, where it is basically a requirement to obtain goods and services, does not mean people are staying home, limiting unnecessary excursions, not visiting with friends, or getting secret backdoor haircuts twice a week.
People are making a choice, that living with the current situation and visiting with friends and family, is more important than controlling the virus and reopening the economy. It's the wrong decision to make.
This is precisely why Disneyland is still closed. Reopening Disneyland would just give a false sense of security and normalcy, when urgency and action is needed. The degree to which people have tried to downplay, distribute misinformation and scoff at health recommendations, have all played a part in keeping Disneyland closed for almost a year now.
If anyone here wants Disneyland to stay closed forever, it's clearly the ones that are still not taking this seriously, a full twelve months later.
No, people are making the choice that the risk of catching the virus and being sick are far outweighed by wanting to live their lives.
Stevek
Well-Known Member
And they are making the choice of catching the virus and possibly spreading it to others, some which may be more at risk.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
If people were making an honest choice they would not need to rationalize it with misunderstanding, lies and conspiracies.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Look at that, more lies about something you can't distinguish from the cold.You joke, but I worry about that sentiment.
Apparently no one is allowed to die ever again, not even an 85 year old diabetic woman in a Nursing Home.
Currently in the middle of winter, the flu season is non-existent this year. Either because everyone is fully masked and slathered in complimentary disinfectant every time they go into Target, or because most flu deaths are being chalked up as a Covid death. Or more likely, a combination of those two things.
Weekly U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report
Learn more about the weekly influenza surveillance report (FluView) prepared by the Influenza Division.
What do we do a year from now when Covid is tamed, but Flu rages and is killing hundreds of darling school children per year like it did for the last 100 years but no one gave a damn about it back in the far-off year of 2019 or 2018? Do we keep the schools closed because Flu kills more young children per year than Covid did? Do we keep all restaurants closed? Does Disneyland close from November to April every year and operate at 25% of its 2019 design capacity in summer until it finally goes out of business?
The yardstick has been moved very high, it seems to me. No one is allowed to die ever again. And if they do, close all restaurants and theme parks immediately. Or something like that. The goalposts seem to move every few months.
Next December as Flu season begins to rage and Flu starts killing 40,000 to 60,000 Americans in one winter as it often does, is Disneyland allowed to operate and look like this just after the Christmas parade ends? This is DEADLY!
castleparker
Well-Known Member
I think you are on to something, maybe a big reason why they keep parroting all this obvious disinformation is to help acquit themselves of responsibility. Which is ironic, since they are the ones helping the spread the most, and thus are responsible for keeping things closed longer.
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BuzzedPotatoHead89
Well-Known Member
I actually agree here but from a policy perspective this leaves two difficult options:
1) The government needs to make the penalties wholly enforceable (the stick).
2) The government needs to provide safer (relatively speaking) alternatives to private parties and underground gatherings to prevent fatigue and also provide incentives to control for the economic fallout/uncertainty. (The carrot)
Currently neither are of these adequately happening due to lack of will and/or resources. Despite the clear public health dangers there is no perceived “downside risk” to many to visit with family in massless non-social distanced setting and the state government is establishing a perverse incentive for the citizenry to flout its own local/state’s guidelines.
Hence, we are drastically worse off than we were in the summer months of 2020 when most of the state was already in “purple” tier and unlike other states we’re now facing our worst wave of the pandemic in California at the worst time - in the winter - when seasonally ICU capacity are already typically high absent a major pandemic.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree that this is how a lot of people are looking at this. But it is still the wrong decision, a decision made based on a lack of foresight and information. This is a very selfish decision, focused on one's own health, without any regard to the larger implications of the safety of health service workers, front line workers and overall emergency care capacity. As long as they don't think they will need those things today, there's no reason not to go out and accept the risk.
If there was a way to exclude these people from utilizing health services, we would probably be having a very different discussion right now, since Disneyland would probably be open.
Number 1 can't be done without the legislature passing laws to allow for it and probably needs a 3/4 majority. Number 2 should be done, opening restaurants, which even the state admits are not a source of spread, they just shut down outdoor dining to try to encourage people to stay home would help, but further more, allow theme parks to reopen to the reopening standards that Florida used, they were safe.
The policies as they stand are causing people to take longer trips out of state, honestly at this point the restrictions are causing more problems than they are solving. Of course that has been the case all along in California, but that is another story.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
My post wasn’t trying to point out wrong or right. Not really interested in that discussion anymore. It was meant to give some perspective to people that may have had it much easier the last 10 months.
Do you have young kids or have you been impacted financially?