Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

You are fooling yourself if you think the guy in charge did everything he could with Covid. Just ask him and he will tell you like he’s told others he downplayed it and still does. Slow to act with no plan. To this day this administration is still showing no regard for the virus with leader calling our top scientists idiots and not that smart and nothing said with the maskless rallies and parties.
I think a rock in office would have done better. But keep not hearing what he actually says and believe that no one could and would have done better.
Sorry about the political rant but this stuff gets under my skin. Even if you like the guy fine but just don’t say you know things won’t be different if anyone else was in charge.

Yes, he has downplayed it in statements. However, the White House Coronavirus Task Force was formed on 1/29/20, with Fauci the great on it from Day 1. The President followed the recommendations of the task force, especially in the beginning and supported the shutdown (aka "15 days to slow the spread" and then "47 days to slow the spread.")

Doing better depends upon the definition of better. If you believe that getting the States on board with a nationwide mask mandate is "doing better" then somebody else could have done better. If you define better as strong arming for stricter and longer term restrictions then somebody else could have done better. Since doing the latter would have necessarily led to a worse economy (at least in the short term) I don't believe that Hillary Clinton would have done it. Do you really think she would have won reelection if the economy was even worse than it is now, people would have been restricted for months on end and she could only point to a hypothetical number of lives saved?

The only thing that would have led to a drastically different situation now would have been to lock down the country in early February, before there were any known cases in the US and not reopen until high quality tests were developed and deployed in high quantity. Then, maybe a test and contact trace strategy would have worked to keep it under control after the reopening. Not a single politician would have supported such an action given the information available at the time, even knowing that it was contagious and deadly. Fauci certainly knew at least as much, if not more than President Trump in January and he was also downplaying it back then.

 

[Parker in NYC]

I wonder when proof of vaccination will be available on the black market.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Yes, he has downplayed it in statements. However, the White House Coronavirus Task Force was formed on 1/29/20, with Fauci the great on it from Day 1. The President followed the recommendations of the task force, especially in the beginning and supported the shutdown (aka "15 days to slow the spread" and then "47 days to slow the spread.")

Doing better depends upon the definition of better. If you believe that getting the States on board with a nationwide mask mandate is "doing better" then somebody else could have done better. If you define better as strong arming for stricter and longer term restrictions then somebody else could have done better. Since doing the latter would have necessarily led to a worse economy (at least in the short term) I don't believe that Hillary Clinton would have done it. Do you really think she would have won reelection if the economy was even worse than it is now, people would have been restricted for months on end and she could only point to a hypothetical number of lives saved?

The only thing that would have led to a drastically different situation now would have been to lock down the country in early February, before there were any known cases in the US and not reopen until high quality tests were developed and deployed in high quantity. Then, maybe a test and contact trace strategy would have worked to keep it under control after the reopening. Not a single politician would have supported such an action given the information available at the time, even knowing that it was contagious and deadly. Fauci certainly knew at least as much, if not more than President Trump in January and he was also downplaying it back then.

Please, you know that Trump is just waiting to report the numbers of deaths and hospitalizations post-January 20, 2021. At least maybe then, he'll finally even make reference to those deaths and hospitalizations -- rich, from a man who has said nearly 40 times that the virus was vanishing.

 

[DisneyCane]

This makes me feel much better about the situation. I personally would be all for vaccine certification for entry. I just get worried about the libertarians and conservatives masquerading as libertarians here who -- up until the last few weeks -- were completely against any of this. The typical argument is to use judgment before traveling because you could just as soon go down in a crash (for example) or catch terminal influenza at or on the way to the parks. I should go and run a search but who can keep track of the many, many threads.

As a libertarian leaning conservative, I would like to clarify that my beliefs are about what should and should not be done by the Government, not what should or should not be done by a private business. Disney is free to require body cavity searches for entry if they want to.

 

[FigmentFan82]

I wonder when proof of vaccination will be available on the black market.

Most likely once vaccinated you get a confirmation on a third party app that would link to MDE to show proof. Doubt they will accept paper forms of proof (again the Ticketmaster method)

 

[oceanbreeze77]

I wonder when proof of vaccination will be available on the black market.

the airlines are planning on a "travel passport" I imagine it would require a unique barcode that you scan. Cant really replicate those.

 

[Parker in NYC]

As a libertarian leaning conservative, I would like to clarify that my beliefs are about what should and should not be done by the Government, not what should or should not be done by a private business. Disney is free to require body cavity searches for entry if they want to.

I must be crazy (duly noted) that people were against the mask requirements, much less full body cavity checks, for months and months and months. And there were many here in the beginning who proudly said they'd wear the masks to gain entry and then take them off. Talk about compliance. And trust me, these folks were pretty loud about who and where they stood on everything else about COVID and the "fear-mongering" that was taking away their rights to be idiots.

 

[hopemax]

Vaccination is only a means to a goal, not the goal. We need to see sustained reductions in cases. We are all hoping this is what widespread vaccination achieves, but we need to follow caseloads, not vaccination numbers.

No, a vaccine is not the goal, the vaccine is just a tool. If hospitals are getting overwhelmed with people who are sick with a virus, then it makes sense to put precautions in place to prevent that from happening. Having a vaccine available doesn't magically make it ok for hospitals to be overwhelmed.

I am quickly losing my patience with those that can't conceptualize that actually solving a health crisis is more involved than some rando's personal vaccination status.

 

[DisneyCane]

Please, you know that Trump is just waiting to report the numbers of deaths and hospitalizations post-January 20, 2021. At least maybe then, he'll finally even make reference to those deaths and hospitalizations.

I'm sure he will and he'll call the vaccine rollout a disaster and say how much better it would have been if he was still in office. I'm saying that it will be roughly the same. He didn't really have anything to do with the vaccine development that he takes credit for either.

That doesn't mean that somebody else in office would have led to a dramatically different situation now. Short of implementing very strict and very long lockdowns, I don't think any world leader can really do anything to significantly change the course of the pandemic until there is wide availability of a vaccine.

I must be crazy (duly noted) that people were against the mask requirements, much less full body cavity checks, for months and months and months. And there were many here in the beginning who proudly said they'd wear the masks to gain entry and then take them off. Talk about compliance. And trust me, these folks were pretty loud about who and where they stood on everything else about COVID and the "fear-mongering" that was taking away their rights to be idiots.

I certainly wasn't one of those people with respect to Disney's requirements. I always said that I don't have to go if I don't want to wear a mask while there and that I'd follow their rules because it was important to me to visit WDW. Throughout this whole thing, I have consistently said that a private business can do whatever they feel necessary to make their customers feel comfortable.

 

[DisneyCane]

I am quickly losing my patience with those that can't conceptualize that actually solving a health crisis is more involved than some rando's personal vaccination status.

I didn't say some "rando's" vaccination status. I said that once everybody has access to a vaccine that is (apparently) 90% effective, there should no longer be any measures taken because, at that point, the overwhelming majority of those effected will have chosen not to protect themselves.

At that point it become analogous to banning intimate activity if somebody hasn't had an HIV test first when protection is available that will protect the vast, vast majority of those who choose to use it.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I must be crazy (duly noted) that people were against the mask requirements, much less full body cavity checks, for months and months and months. And there were many here in the beginning who proudly said they'd wear the masks to gain entry and then take them off. Talk about compliance. And trust me, these folks were pretty loud about who and where they stood on everything else about COVID and the "fear-mongering" that was taking away their rights to be idiots.

Imagine if our leaders came out with masks and wearing them for 8 months and every time they opened their mouth it was about being safe and subscribing to the facts from science where we could be now. Instead of tweeting about the latest celebrity who said something about him.

 

[Parker in NYC]

I'm sure he will and he'll call the vaccine rollout a disaster and say how much better it would have been if he was still in office. I'm saying that it will be roughly the same. He didn't really have anything to do with the vaccine development that he takes credit for either.

That doesn't mean that somebody else in office would have led to a dramatically different situation now. Short of implementing very strict and very long lockdowns, I don't think any world leader can really do anything to significantly change the course of the pandemic until there is wide availability of a vaccine.

But he'll still be supported over this. The media will run with it. And what exactly will it add to the mission to move forward? I'm sure he'll trouble the water, question vaccines, cite fake science articles, and do everything he can to keep his followers misinformed and angry. I'm no Madame Leota but I'm also not far off the mark on this.

Meanwhile, educated people like yourself will stand back and say it's no big deal, and yet his behavior continues and people with little political/economic knowledge are perfectly thrilled with Trump's approach to the pandemic.

 

[danlb_2000]

The within a 24-hour neg teset feels so useless. You could just as well catch the thing in the meanwhile.

Vaccine isn't a 100% guarantee either.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Vaccine isn't a 100% guarantee either.

Agreed, so why don't we just skip them both.

 

[GoofGoof]

Not just deaths. As you mention, phase 2 will bring about vaccination of higher risk GP. When that starts to have an effect (I hope the April/May timeline is correct), hospitalizations will spiral downward even if infections don’t necessarily follow course until younger and less risk people are able to be vaccinated.

Also, the nursing home residents account for a large amount of hospitalizations. So getting them vaccinated will also help with that.
And I think I read there was approval to do some of the Covid treatments in nursing homes now rather than being admitted to hospital.

Some issues in our area hospitals are nursing homes are trying to re-admit patients at the sign of a sniffle, due to fear of Covid. Some of these patients don't need to be admitted, but nursing homes are refusing to take them back. It's a mess.

Knocking out nursing homes and higher risk people by April is a huge deal. The vaccination will significantly reduce demand on hospitals and reduce deaths and it will happen in a matter of months. Great news. One thing that we have to be cautious of is removing restrictions too soon. Remember that spread today is at the level it is even with distancing, masks and certain high risk activities prohibited so if we remove all of that as soon as the high risk are vaccinated the spread will rise in the rest of the population and even though higher risk people are more likely to have severe Covid it’s not exclusive to that group. I have a 31 year old cousin who had no underlying conditions who recently died from Covid. We have to dial back restrictions gradually and see how cases respond. I fear there will be a rush to pull back completely and that’s not a good scenario.

I think it will take longer than when the lines for a vaccine go away, or appointments are widely available. BECAUSE uptake won’t be enough, at that point.

Too many people waiting to see how their friends do with the shot. Especially, in the large group of healthy people who don’t fear the virus as much. So if their healthy friends start getting it in late Spring, then they’ll wait until late Summer. Basically, I’m predicting the healthy people will self-select themselves into waves. We will have to wait for multiple waves in order to reach the threshold, not just the initial batch of healthy people.

I admit my ”prediction” is made with a lot of wishful thinking, but if the distribution is well managed and we get multiple additional vaccines approved in Q1 2021 its doable. I think the issue of people waiting will take care of itself by the Spring. Look at it this way, healthy adults and children will not get the vaccine under emergency use authorization. You don’t vaccinate healthy people that are not at high risk for serious infection under EUA. The FDA will likely give full authorization some time in April when they get 6 months of data on the phase 3 trials and 4 months of millions of EUA patients. By the time that happens there will potentially be up to 150M Americans and maybe half a billion people worldwide who have gotten a Covid vaccine. So what I’m saying is none of the healthy non-essential people will have the option to go prior to full approval and by then there will be more than enough data to make even the biggest skeptic satisfied. Now if there are widespread issues or severe adverse reactions then all bets are off, but so far there is no evidence that is likely.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Our President checked out 11 months ago on the Corona Virus he could care less about the virus or the american people at this time we are fending for ourselves until the new administration comes in and pieces us back together. Some folks could care less and thinks it's all fake until they get hit and end up on a vent or 6 feet under.

The above post is fake.

 

[GoofGoof]

The above post is fake.

Are you saying @Seanual757 is actually a Russian bot? Or is the post itself not real...I’m just imagining it

 

[danlb_2000]

Agreed, so why don't we just skip them both.

Because either one is much better then doing nothing.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Are you saying @Seanual757 is actually a Russian bot? Or is the post itself not real...I’m just imagining it

What post?

 

[Chi84]

Because either one is much better then doing nothing.

A 95% effective vaccine is quite a bit better than doing nothing.