Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Heppenheimer]

Once we are at the point where anybody that wants to has had the opportunity to get vaccinated, all restrictions and measures should immediately cease. Assuming the vaccine(s) is 90% effective at preventing somebody from getting sick and everybody who wants to has been vaccinated, there will be no justification at all for continuing to harm businesses and inconvenience everybody to protect people who voluntarily don't want protection and 10% or less of the people that do.

Vaccination is only a means to a goal, not the goal. We need to see sustained reductions in cases. We are all hoping this is what widespread vaccination achieves, but we need to follow caseloads, not vaccination numbers.

 

[hopemax]

Of course, assuming their estimate is accurate, it means the infection fatality rate is 1/8 of what has been reported. It would make it around 0.25%. Let's even say 0.3% to account for death and reporting lag. How many news reports focus on that aspect?

This is why people don’t trust your math. You just conflated CFR (denominator = confirmed cases) with IFR (denominator = estimated infected). Since March they’ve been using an estimate of 8x or 10x confirmed cases, it’s already been factored into that calculation. You don’t get to divide a second time.

 

[DisneyCane]

Vaccination is only a means to a goal, not the goal. We need to see sustained reductions in cases. We are all hoping this is what widespread vaccination achieves, but we need to follow caseloads, not vaccination numbers.

Nope. A highly effective vaccine available to all who want it is the goal. Once that point is reached it is unreasonable to ask the population to take steps to reduce spread which will be 90% or more among people who voluntarily didn't get vaccinated.

The original goal of all the measures was simply to "flatten the curve" not have a sustained reduction in the number of cases.

 

[DisneyCane]

This is why people don’t trust your math. You just conflated CFR (denominator = confirmed cases) with IFR (denominator = estimated infected). Since March they’ve been using an estimate of 8x or 10x confirmed cases, it’s already been factored into that calculation. You don’t get to divide a second time.

I didn't confuse it. I made an error when I typed the post. What I meant to say was if there are 8 times as many infections as reported cases then the IFR is 1/8 the reported CFR. The math is correct and gets to the 99.7% survival rate when looked at in the opposite way.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Nope. A highly effective vaccine available to all who want it is the goal. Once that point is reached it is unreasonable to ask the population to take steps to reduce spread which will be 90% or more among people who voluntarily didn't get vaccinated.

The original goal of all the measures was simply to "flatten the curve" not have a sustained reduction in the number of cases.

To me, it’s COVID hospitalizations and deaths. Once those are controlled (however we get there), remove all restrictions, put everything back to normal.

 

[Seanual757]

C’mon America pull yourselves together

Coronavirus: US hits record Covid cases and hospitalisations https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55170329

Our President checked out 11 months ago on the Corona Virus he could care less about the virus or the american people at this time we are fending for ourselves until the new administration comes in and pieces us back together. Some folks could care less and thinks it's all fake until they get hit and end up on a vent or 6 feet under.

 

[Patcheslee]

The issue in many areas are the undocumented. The government needs to make sure everyone gets vaccinated and that means ID and tracking and that is going to be difficult. Just look at the amnesty bill on the undocumented that President Reagan signed, most of the eligible never took advantage of it. Do you really think this group will get vaccinated if they need an ID? That is going to cause problems and why I hate to say it we need to pay everyone to get the shot. Give $1200 for those with proof of American citizenship and $750 for everyone else. No other stimulus should be given.

Indiana can't even keep their statewide immunization records up to date. Every year new vaccines are required I get notified by DD12s school she can't attend because the statewide system doesn't show her as current. Then I have to take off work, go to doc to get updated records again and take them to the school again because they don't keep the hard copies. The last update they showed for her in the system was in 1st grade, she's now in 6th and had multiple rounds of required shots and multiple times of me having to take hard copies in and tell doc it wasn't updated in system.
I highly doubt expecting a government to keep track of this particular one will be any better.

 

[DisneyCane]

Our President checked out 11 months ago on the Corona Virus he could care less about the virus or the american people at this time we are fending for ourselves until the new administration comes in and pieces us back together. Some folks could care less and thinks it's all fake until they get hit and end up on a vent or 6 feet under.

Stop with this talking point nonsense. The only thing the new administration will do is handle distribution of the vaccine that was developed during the current administration by some evil big pharma companies. Maybe they'll also try to tie a mask mandate to aid to states. Other than that, there won't be any difference.

Not many people think COVID is "fake." We just disagree with the tradeoffs being made and think that it is not as serious (when looked at in percentages and who it predominantly impacts) as it is made out to be. Obviously, many people on here disagree with me on that which is fine but if you (or anybody) really thinks the current situation would be dramatically better if Hillary had won in 2016 or will be dramatically different in 2021 because Joe Biden is in office then you are fooling yourself.

 

[matt9112]

Yeah, no. Please let’s not go down the route of celebrating colonialism and disparaging Africa. It’s irrelevant and offensive.

Facts are facts....whether you like them or nor is your own prerogative. Im sure somalia is alot better off now your right. Eye roll.

 

[jmp85]

That won’t happen in this country. Not agreeing or disagreeing but this is Amurica after all.

Reminds me of the girl who sits next to me at work. First to rant and complain about someone coming in sick, but she comes in a few times a year sick as a dog "because muh sick time."

 

[oceanbreeze77]

I'm curious, when the vaccine is widely available, do you think Disney would require proof of vaccination in order to let people reserve park tickets and hotel rooms?

No. There'd be an outcry of totalitarianism.

I actually think they will require it. It looks like airlines are heading that direction, and I imagine plenty of other venues will too. Remember that anti-vaxxers are super outnumbered.

 

[Disney Experience]

I haven't looked into it but I'll ask now. In these current trials, how are they determining if trial participants get infected? Are they tested regularly or not unless they get symptoms?

Also, even if all the vaccine does is prevent people from getting sick and they are over 90% effective at doing that, does it really matter if vaccinated people can still transmit it? You reduce the potential negative impact by over 90%.

I can only answer in respect to Pfizer and Moderna. Only on symptoms or our scheduled visits. My next visit (Pfizer) is scheduled in April, as is my wife’s (Moderna)

 

[danlb_2000]

Once we are at the point where anybody that wants to has had the opportunity to get vaccinated, all restrictions and measures should immediately cease. Assuming the vaccine(s) is 90% effective at preventing somebody from getting sick and everybody who wants to has been vaccinated, there will be no justification at all for continuing to harm businesses and inconvenience everybody to protect people who voluntarily don't want protection and 10% or less of the people that do.

Restrictions should be lifted once hospitalization and death rates have dropped to an "acceptable level". A vaccine should get us there, but if it doesn't restrictions may have to continue.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Stop with this talking point nonsense. The only thing the new administration will do is handle distribution of the vaccine that was developed during the current administration by some evil big pharma companies. Maybe they'll also try to tie a mask mandate to aid to states. Other than that, there won't be any difference.

Not many people think COVID is "fake." We just disagree with the tradeoffs being made and think that it is not as serious (when looked at in percentages and who it predominantly impacts) as it is made out to be. Obviously, many people on here disagree with me on that which is fine but if you (or anybody) really thinks the current situation would be dramatically better if Hillary had won in 2016 or will be dramatically different in 2021 because Joe Biden is in office then you are fooling yourself.

You are fooling yourself if you think the guy in charge did everything he could with Covid. Just ask him and he will tell you like he’s told others he downplayed it and still does. Slow to act with no plan. To this day this administration is still showing no regard for the virus with leader calling our top scientists idiots and not that smart and nothing said with the maskless rallies and parties.
I think a rock in office would have done better. But keep not hearing what he actually says and believe that no one could and would have done better.
Sorry about the political rant but this stuff gets under my skin. Even if you like the guy fine but just don’t say you know things won’t be different if anyone else was in charge.

 

[danlb_2000]

Nope. A highly effective vaccine available to all who want it is the goal. Once that point is reached it is unreasonable to ask the population to take steps to reduce spread which will be 90% or more among people who voluntarily didn't get vaccinated.

The original goal of all the measures was simply to "flatten the curve" not have a sustained reduction in the number of cases.

No, a vaccine is not the goal, the vaccine is just a tool. If hospitals are getting overwhelmed with people who are sick with a virus, then it makes sense to put precautions in place to prevent that from happening. Having a vaccine available doesn't magically make it ok for hospitals to be overwhelmed.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Just like there was when they started entering people's rooms without their permission to do security checks. Totalitarianism is a government thing - limits must be placed to prevent overreach because government holds power over its citizens. It has the authority to fine or even imprison people unless they obey.

Disney has no authority whatsoever over anyone unless that person voluntarily submits to it by entering their property. I don't know whether or not they will require proof of vaccination but I hope they do. If people really are staying away from Disney because they don't feel safe, that would help bring them back.

This makes me feel much better about the situation. I personally would be all for vaccine certification for entry. I just get worried about the libertarians and conservatives masquerading as libertarians here who -- up until the last few weeks -- were completely against any of this. The typical argument is to use judgment before traveling because you could just as soon go down in a crash (for example) or catch terminal influenza at or on the way to the parks. I should go and run a search but who can keep track of the many, many threads.

 

[FigmentFan82]

This makes me feel much better about the situation. I personally would be all for vaccine certification for entry. I just get worried about the libertarians and conservatives masquerading as libertarians here who -- up until the last few weeks -- were completely against any of this. The typical argument is to use judgment before traveling because you could just as soon go down in a crash (for example) or catch terminal influenza at or on the way to the parks. I should go and run a search but who can keep track of the many, many threads.

My guess is that WDW and airlines will do what Tickemaster plans to do - proof of vaccincation or a within 24hr neg test

 

[Parker in NYC]

My guess is that WDW and airlines will do what Tickemaster plans to do - proof of vaccincation or a within 24hr neg test

The within a 24-hour neg teset feels so useless. You could just as well catch the thing in the meanwhile.

 

[FigmentFan82]

The within a 24-hour neg teset feels so useless. You could just as well catch the thing in the meanwhile.

 

[DisneyCane]

You are fooling yourself if you think the guy in charge did everything he could with Covid. Just ask him and he will tell you like he’s told others he downplayed it and still does. Slow to act with no plan. To this day this administration is still showing no regard for the virus with leader calling our top scientists idiots and not that smart and nothing said with the maskless rallies and parties.
I think a rock in office would have done better. But keep not hearing what he actually says and believe that no one could and would have done better.
Sorry about the political rant but this stuff gets under my skin. Even if you like the guy fine but just don’t say you know things won’t be different if anyone else was in charge.

Yes, he has downplayed it in statements. However, the White House Coronavirus Task Force was formed on 1/29/20, with Fauci the great on it from Day 1. The President followed the recommendations of the task force, especially in the beginning and supported the shutdown (aka "15 days to slow the spread" and then "47 days to slow the spread.")

Doing better depends upon the definition of better. If you believe that getting the States on board with a nationwide mask mandate is "doing better" then somebody else could have done better. If you define better as strong arming for stricter and longer term restrictions then somebody else could have done better. Since doing the latter would have necessarily led to a worse economy (at least in the short term) I don't believe that Hillary Clinton would have done it. Do you really think she would have won reelection if the economy was even worse than it is now, people would have been restricted for months on end and she could only point to a hypothetical number of lives saved?

The only thing that would have led to a drastically different situation now would have been to lock down the country in early February, before there were any known cases in the US and not reopen until high quality tests were developed and deployed in high quantity. Then, maybe a test and contact trace strategy would have worked to keep it under control after the reopening. Not a single politician would have supported such an action given the information available at the time, even knowing that it was contagious and deadly. Fauci certainly knew at least as much, if not more than President Trump in January and he was also downplaying it back then.