Politics Theme Park Reopening Guidelines to be released 10/20/20

[el_super]

The lack of concern for those who die because they're old is astounding.

And yet I see us having to suffer though another lengthy post dredging up ancient history and proclaiming Disneyland Management completely responsible for the death of a guest some twenty plus years ago. I guess for some, people dying is only a tragedy when it can be pinned to a management team you have a vendetta against.

 

[Travel Junkie]

It’s cool to hate on your own country now folks. Russia and Chinas plan of having us implode from within is working.

I suppose you hate Disney since you have been vocal about a lot of their decisions lately.

There's a difference between criticism and hate.

 

[mickEblu]

I suppose you hate Disney since you have been vocal about a lot of their decisions lately.

There's a difference between criticism and hate.

No, the difference is I have a lot of good things to say about Disney too, particularly Disneyland, which is why we re all here in the first place. It’s very trendy to hate America right now. For everyone that says “America sucks” or “that’s America for you”, I challenge you to find me one post where they are saying something good about this country.

In addition, it’s one thing to single out a specific leader, politician, political party, specific laws, trends, or whatever else one may not like and another to just make a blanket statement by saying “this country” or “America”

 

[Travel Junkie]

No, the difference is I have a lot of good things to say about Disney too. It’s very trendy to hate America right now. For everyone that says “America sucks” or “that’s America for you”, I challenge you to find me one post where they are saying something good about this country.

In a thread about Splash Mountain I distinctly remember you saying the only thing Disney has done right in the last few years is the Hungry Bear sign. Perhaps you were being over dramatic, but it was said. To be honest IMO you have been pretty hostile towards anyone agreeing with Disney's decision making as of late.

Let's be honest, the threads are overly negative about everything. However, if you spend enough time in the political threads you will see posters say plenty of things they agree with. Depending on how things go next week, you may see plenty of those "America haters" praise a decision the country made.

 

[mickEblu]

In a thread about Splash Mountain I distinctly remember you saying the only thing Disney has done right in the last few years is the Hungry Bear sign. Perhaps you were being over dramatic, but it was said. To be honest IMO you have been pretty hostile towards anyone agreeing with Disney's decision making as of late.

Let's be honest, the threads are overly negative about everything. However, if you spend enough time in the political threads you will see posters say plenty of things they agree with. Depending on how things go next week, you may see plenty of those "America haters" praise a decision the country made.

Lol yes I was being over dramatic for comedic effect and to highlight the cult classic that is the new Hungry Bear sign. My point is that if you go through my posting history you can find 100s of posts of me talking about what I love about the place. The same can’t be said for the “America is the worst” crowd. Granted this isn’t a political forum but if they are going to make it one then be fair and balanced.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Covid Deaths on October 29th
France, 66 Million Citizens, 545 Covid Deaths
USA, 330 Million Citizens, 943 Covid Deaths

If the USA had the same per capita rate of Covid deaths per day that France does, we'd be seeing 2,750 American deaths per day instead of 950ish.

But go anyway, I bet there's great deals on flights. And order the Bearnaise sauce with everything!

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per 1M Population | RealClearPolitics

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per Population | RealClearPolitics

www.realclearpolitics.com

From what I see France is worse off currently but overall the US has been hit harder. However, France has been in the middle of a large spike where the US is just beginning. The US likely catches up.

Covid deaths last 7 days per million:

France: 21.97
US: 14.2

Overall Covid deaths per million

France: 529.74
US: 693.86

Neither country has had much success. Generally speaking the America's and Western Europe have been hit hardest. My friend was of thinking of going to Peru as they are opening up to tourists again. I had to try and convince them not to. Their death rate per million is the highest in the world.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

 

[Travel Junkie]

Lol yes I was being over dramatic for comedic effect and to highlight the cult classic that is the new Hungry Bear sign. My point is that if you go through my posting history you can find 100s of posts of me talking about what I love about the place. The same can’t be said for the “America is the worst” crowd. Granted this isn’t a political forum but if they are going to make it one then be fair and balanced.

Personally I haven't see many positive posts about Disney from you the last couple of years, but to be fair I typically stick to the recent project threads such as Splash, GE, Pixar Pier, and GOTG:MB, which I know you hate.

While they allow politics in some of these threads now, it is still topic specific (Covid 19.) On that topic specifically I would have a tough time finding something America has done right. IMO the criticism is very much justified and they don't deserve praise. It frankly is pretty discouraging that a country that does do so many things right and is such a rich country could get this so wrong. Expand beyond that one issue there is plenty to praise. In the main political forums where you can discuss any topic there is plenty of this was good this was bad back and forth. In this sub forum we are limited to the specific topic at hand that has at least some effect on Disneyland.

 

[mickEblu]

Personally I haven't see many positive posts about Disney from you the last couple of years, but to be fair I typically stick to the recent project threads such as Splash, GE, Pixar Pier, and GOTG:MB, which I know you hate.

While they allow politics in some of these threads now, it is still topic specific (Covid 19.) On that topic specifically I would have a tough time finding something America has done right. IMO the criticism is very much justified and they don't deserve praise. It frankly is pretty discouraging that a country that does do so many things right and is such a rich country could get this so wrong. Expand beyond that one issue there is plenty to praise. In the main political forums where you can discuss any topic there is plenty of this was good this was bad back and forth. In this sub forum we are limited to the specific topic at hand that has at least some effect on Disneyland.

In this comparison Disneyland = America and Disney = the powers that be in America at the present moment. I have plenty of good things to say about Disneyland, the place.

Again, I’m referring to people who make general statements about America being a $hit country or $hit place. Im not referring to people speaking out against a specific issue.

In short, people should be more careful when they communicate. Be specific when calling something out and not blanket statement everything with “that’s America for you.”

I think the heart of the matter for me is that bandwagon mob mentality and knee jerk reaction blanket statements just kind of annoy me. Regardless of the political party or issue at hand. So maybe my problem is with social media because people become reduced to these polarizing, knee jerk reaction blanket statements where no gray area or nuance exists.

 

[SoCalMort]

"If America hasn't broken your heart you don't love her enough." - Cory Booker

Towards a more perfect union, y'all.

 

[TP2000]

The lack of concern for those who die because they're old is astounding.

It's not that there's no lack of concern for old people who die. Death is sad, even when it's a 91 year old lady like my old family friend who died (not of Covid) two months ago. 91! Her time had come, as it will to everyone here.

But some of us can look at the science and data on Covid and realize this is not killing school kids. It's primarily killing old people who are already past the average life expectancy of Americans; 78 years old.

Here in Orange County with 3.2 Million people where an average of 80 people die every day of something, 8 people died of Covid today. 4 were living in nursing homes, 4 were not living in nursing homes. That brings the total number of Covid deaths in OC to 1,438 this year. OC averages about 29,000 deaths per year.

OC's 1,438 Covid Deaths by age range as of 10/30/20

Age 75 to 100 = 805 or 0.03% of OC population (and they're old and supposed to die like humans do)
Age 65 to 74 = 293 or 0.009% of OC population (only a 10 year range there, just to show)
Age 25 to 64 = 379 or 0.01% of OC population (a 40 year range)
Age 0 to 24 = 6 or 0.0001% of OC population (but schools and colleges are still closed?)

If I'm supposed to feel badly for every 80 year old lady in a nursing home that I don't know passing away, I would have to be in mourning 24/7 forever. Death is part of the human experience, especially once you hit 75 years old and/or have a history of health problems.

I'm just surprised at how many young people think death is something that can be stopped for a 75 year old.

ArcGIS Dashboards

ArcGIS Dashboards

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[Deleted member 107043]

TP2000 said:
But some of us can look at the science and data on Covid and realize this is not killing school kids. It's primarily killing old people who are already past the average life expectancy of Americans; 78 years old.

You're making a lot of assumptions about how long people who died from Covid would have lived otherwise. A recent study found that on average those who died from Covid may have lost more than 10 years of their life. By your own metrics almost 400 people between the ages of 25 and 65 have been lost to Covid in OC - ages well below the average US life expectancy rate - in the past 7 months. That is not an acceptable statistic.

Deaths aside, the hospitalization costs for Covid are astronomical, not to mention the strain it puts on medical systems and personnel when cases spike. One report says the average Covid hospitalization costs for a single patient without insurance exceeds $73,000. I'll remind you that an estimated 27 million Americans, or about 9% of the population, does not have health coverage.

On a more personal note... by now it's clear you're fully committed to coming here and characterizing certain responses to the pandemic as overblown, even when the facts disagree. OK, fine, but I know you can do better than occasionally shrugging off the situation with this callus "death is normal part of life" stuff. Not a good look for you sir.

 

[truecoat]

You realize about 7,500 to 8,000 Americans drop dead every day, right? Of cancer. Heart attacks. Strokes. Pneumonia. Car crashes. Backyard pool drownings. Or just being a few years past the age of 75, when you are living on borrowed time.

I never wore a black armband for the 7,500+ Americans dying every day, did you?

When was the last time you heard someone catch a car accident, stroke or heart attack from someone. I really hate the people who don't vaccinate their kids from pool drownings.

 

[DCBaker]

"On Monday, the mayors of California’s largest cities sent a letter to Governor Gavin Newsom imploring him to “modify” his stringent reopening guidelines for large theme parks. The missive said the governor’s requirements “would effectively keep parks closed indefinitely.”

In their letter to Governor Newsom the mayors said:

The guidelines put forth by your Administration were released within the framework of prioritizing public health and safety for guests and employees. This is the right focus. However, economic and public health are not mutually exclusive goals. We are concerned that the state’s guidelines would push re-opening of large theme parks up to a year out, which would have significant negative impacts on hundreds of thousands of jobs, thousands of small businesses, and billions in operating revenue for our cities.

The letter was signed by:

Mayor Harry Sidhu of Anaheim
Mayor Eric Garcetti of Los Angeles
Mayor Kevin Faulconer of San Diego
Mayor Sam Liccardo of San Jose
Mayor Lee Brand of Fresno
Mayor Karen Goh of Bakersfield
Mayor Rusty Bailey of Riverside
Mayor Miguel Pulido of Santa Ana"

"Asked for a response on Monday on a midday Zoom call about the governor’s plan, Los Angeles County Health Director Barbara Ferrer told Deadline she had not read the mayors’ letter. (To be fair, it was released as she spoke.) But Ferrer did voice appreciation for Newsom.

“I do want to thank the governor and the governor’s staff and the local health departments,” said Ferrer, “that are trying to balance the needs of our economy with health concerns.”

Asked specifically about the governor’s plan Ferrer said, “I’m really glad to have a plan that allows us to focus on community spread.”

Rather than criticize Newsom’s actions, “I’d really like everyone to concentrate on getting our rates down,” said Ferrer. “It’s impossible to imagine how we could reopen late theme parks when we have an increasing case rate.”

California Theme Parks May Stay Closed For A Year, Say Mayors Of California’s Largest Cities In Letter To Governor Gavin Newsom Protesting His Coronavirus Restrictions

The leaders of California's largest cities protested Governor Gavin Newsom's coronavirus reopening restrictions on theme parks in a letter.

deadline.com

 

[Bob Harlem]

The California Superior Court ruled in favor of Gallagher/Kiley vs Newsom today in the lawsuit challenging Newsom's abuse of power with some of the executive orders related to the lockdowns, not sure what this means for theme parks yet, but it does prevent any new orders from being issued without legislative action (I.e. actual laws to back it up).

So... The theme parks can technically open, but because the tier system is likely an established “regulation/rule”, it means they face fines if they do. However, it does seem to open the opportunity for theme parks to bring their own cases against Newsom, on the basis of arbitrary regulations and inconsistent application across other business sectors. The precedent is basically that Newsom has no legal case now, so it's likely they'll work something out more reasonable than what's currently there.

edit: Another thread specifically about this ruling here with text from the ruling itself: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/judge-rules-against-newsom.970841/

 

[Disney Irish]

The California Superior Court ruled in favor of Gallagher/Kiley vs Newsom today in the lawsuit challenging Newsom's abuse of power with some of the executive orders related to the lockdowns, not sure what this means for theme parks yet, but it does prevent any new orders from being issued without legislative action (I.e. actual laws to back it up).

So... The theme parks can technically open, but because the tier system is likely an established “regulation/rule”, it means they face fines if they do. However, it does seem to open the opportunity for theme parks to bring their own cases against Newsom, on the basis of arbitrary regulations and inconsistent application across other business sectors. The precedent is basically that Newsom has no legal case now, so it's likely they'll work something out more reasonable than what's currently there.

edit: Another thread specifically about this ruling here with text from the ruling itself: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/judge-rules-against-newsom.970841/

At this point it doesn't change anything with theme parks or with the tier system. So I wouldn't be so quick to just call it a "regulation/rule". Also the legislature can quickly ratify it and turn it into law if need be. This is what they did with the election executive order which is really what the lawsuit was about.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The California Superior Court ruled in favor of Gallagher/Kiley vs Newsom today in the lawsuit challenging Newsom's abuse of power with some of the executive orders related to the lockdowns, not sure what this means for theme parks yet, but it does prevent any new orders from being issued without legislative action (I.e. actual laws to back it up).

So... The theme parks can technically open, but because the tier system is likely an established “regulation/rule”, it means they face fines if they do. However, it does seem to open the opportunity for theme parks to bring their own cases against Newsom, on the basis of arbitrary regulations and inconsistent application across other business sectors. The precedent is basically that Newsom has no legal case now, so it's likely they'll work something out more reasonable than what's currently there.

edit: Another thread specifically about this ruling here with text from the ruling itself: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/judge-rules-against-newsom.970841/

Not really. The ruling only voids a single executive order that has been withdrawn and replaced by legislation and issues a rather nothing of an injunction. It does not void the state of emergency, the lockdowns, the business restrictions or anything really related to the theme parks unless it is tied to a specific statute and not a regulation.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Rather than criticize Newsom’s actions, “I’d really like everyone to concentrate on getting our rates down,” said Ferrer [Los Angeles County Health Director]. “It’s impossible to imagine how we could reopen late theme parks when we have an increasing case rate.”

Well I'll be damned. A government official is pointing at local authorities and community members to get infection rates down instead of blaming the governor for a too strict policy. We need more leaders like Barbara Ferrer in California.

 

[captveg]

"On Monday, the mayors of California’s largest cities sent a letter to Governor Gavin Newsom imploring him to “modify” his stringent reopening guidelines for large theme parks. The missive said the governor’s requirements “would effectively keep parks closed indefinitely.”

In their letter to Governor Newsom the mayors said:

The guidelines put forth by your Administration were released within the framework of prioritizing public health and safety for guests and employees. This is the right focus. However, economic and public health are not mutually exclusive goals. We are concerned that the state’s guidelines would push re-opening of large theme parks up to a year out, which would have significant negative impacts on hundreds of thousands of jobs, thousands of small businesses, and billions in operating revenue for our cities.

The letter was signed by:

Mayor Harry Sidhu of Anaheim
Mayor Eric Garcetti of Los Angeles
Mayor Kevin Faulconer of San Diego
Mayor Sam Liccardo of San Jose
Mayor Lee Brand of Fresno
Mayor Karen Goh of Bakersfield
Mayor Rusty Bailey of Riverside
Mayor Miguel Pulido of Santa Ana"

"Asked for a response on Monday on a midday Zoom call about the governor’s plan, Los Angeles County Health Director Barbara Ferrer told Deadline she had not read the mayors’ letter. (To be fair, it was released as she spoke.) But Ferrer did voice appreciation for Newsom.

“I do want to thank the governor and the governor’s staff and the local health departments,” said Ferrer, “that are trying to balance the needs of our economy with health concerns.”

Asked specifically about the governor’s plan Ferrer said, “I’m really glad to have a plan that allows us to focus on community spread.”

Rather than criticize Newsom’s actions, “I’d really like everyone to concentrate on getting our rates down,” said Ferrer. “It’s impossible to imagine how we could reopen late theme parks when we have an increasing case rate.”

California Theme Parks May Stay Closed For A Year, Say Mayors Of California’s Largest Cities In Letter To Governor Gavin Newsom Protesting His Coronavirus Restrictions

The leaders of California's largest cities protested Governor Gavin Newsom's coronavirus reopening restrictions on theme parks in a letter.

deadline.com

That Garcetti signed this is pretty interesting, as LA has been rather stringent in and of itself.

 

[TP2000]

That Garcetti signed this is pretty interesting, as LA has been rather stringent in and of itself.

Eric Garcetti is also an establishment Democrat, as is Mayor Pulido of Santa Ana.

Mayor Faulconer of San Diego and Mayor Sidhu of Anaheim are Republicans, so that won't help much.

But it's interesting that some top Democrats, especially Mayor Garcetti, signed on to this letter pushing the Governor to reconsider his strategy here on theme parks.

Let's see if that goes anywhere, or if Garcetti just called Newsom beforehand and said "Bro, don't worry about it, I just gotta sign this letter to pacify some low-paid theme park workers and their union bosses. You keep being you! Think of me when it comes time to pick a VP in '24! Or maybe Secretary of Commerce? Transportation? I'll take anything."

 

[MisterPenguin]

Eric Garcetti is also an establishment Democrat, as is Mayor Pulido of Santa Ana.

Mayor Faulconer of San Diego and Mayor Sidhu of Anaheim are Republicans, so that won't help much.

But it's interesting that some top Democrats, especially Mayor Garcetti, signed on to this letter pushing the Governor to reconsider his strategy here on theme parks.

Let's see if that goes anywhere, or if Garcetti just called Newsom beforehand and said "Bro, don't worry about it, I just gotta sign this letter to pacify some low-paid theme park workers and their union bosses. You keep being you! Think of me when it comes time to pick a VP in '24! Or maybe Secretary of Commerce? Transportation? I'll take anything."

So, whether a Democrat is publicly for or against the thing you want, you come up with a conspiratorial motive for their stance.

Cool.