Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Guilty as well. I was also guilty of thinking that this would be no worse than MERS, SARS or even a particularly bad flu season. But the last 8 months of data has convinced me otherwise. That's how the scientific process is supposed to work. Adapt as the evidence becomes more detailed and refined.

But that’s the thing...there is a huge gap between “skeptic” (I am one...big shock)...and fighting science and data.

You are the former...the latter are also known as “wrong”

 

[DisneyDebRob]

there are two primary assumptions on herd immunity: 1) it's a straight 70% threshold in the population that need to be "immune" (more resistant than immune) either through infection or vaccination. 2) COVID has no existing human immunity.

the latter is what accounts for those herd immunity predictions of mass death. but it has already been proven to be untrue through multiple peer-reviewed papers. and like various experts, including dr. gupta, have said many times publicly, HIT (herd immunity threshold) is not a straight 70% calculation; it varies based on existing underlying population immunity. additionally, we also know that the vast majority of COVID cases are asymptomatic, making a true infection number virtually impossible to calculate. so any article that says, "X many people would DIE with a herd immunity strategy" is straight up whiffing on and/or ignoring the most basic pieces of this science.

herd immunity has become a polarizing term only because politicians have beaten that belief into you.

I appreciate your opinion and your posts are well written and I take time to read them. Your very science based it seems and I appreciate that. Think we can toss this up to agree to disagree.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well I can’t really convince you guys of anything so believe what you want. I think mods can look at IP’s and see if someone has multiple accounts. But I’m really just here because, like I’ve said before, I work(ed) at Disney and am following along with the pandemic’s effects on it. I doubt I would keep posting on here after things become more certain

Many people on these boards have worked for Disney....they also present themselves as a type and fall into a “basket” in short order.

 

[disneycp]

Many people on these boards have worked for Disney....they also present themselves as a type and fall into a “basket” in short order.

Well I’m definitely not going to pretend like I’m Bob Iger and have any sort of insider information! If I did I wouldn’t be here.

 

[hopemax]

The statement I see a bunch is that Herd Immunity is an outcome, not a strategy.

The strategy comes in with the locking up the vulnerable, but no one ever explains how to actually do this. Who organizes it, who enforces it, who pays for it, how long, etc. In China, at least, we saw it in action. Weld people into buildings, government arranges delivery of food & supplies. If people really wanted to convince others that locking people away works, they would spend more time explaining the how. Professor Gupta uses the phrase "aggressively shield the vulnerable." EXPLAIN! I think when it really comes down to it, if this is the strategy, there is WAY more government and social safety net involvement than the US freedom fighters would be remotely comfortable with. Advocating both for and against lockdown at the same time. Oh that's right, "lockdown for thee, not me."

I don't know who half the people are who are posting in this thread the last 3 days.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Guilty as well. I was also guilty of thinking that this would be no worse than MERS, SARS or even a particularly bad flu season. But the last 8 months of data has convinced me otherwise. That's how the scientific process is supposed to work. Adapt as the evidence becomes more detailed and refined.

True. If only that had been so obvious in May.

 

[baymenxpac]

I appreciate your opinion and your posts are well written and I take time to read them. Your very science based it seems and I appreciate that. Think we can toss this up to agree to disagree.

i appreciate that, thank you! and sounds fair!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The statement I see a bunch is that Herd Immunity is an outcome, not a strategy.

The strategy comes in with the locking up the vulnerable, but no one ever explains how to actually do this. Who organizes it, who enforces it, who pays for it, how long, etc. In China, at least, we saw it in action. Weld people into buildings, government arranges delivery of food & supplies. If people really wanted to convince others that locking people away works, they would spend more time explaining the how. Professor Gupta uses the phrase "aggressively shield the vulnerable." EXPLAIN! I think when it really comes down to it, if this is the strategy, there is WAY more government and social safety net involvement than the US freedom fighters would be remotely comfortable with. Advocating both for and against lockdown at the same time. Oh that's right, "lockdown for thee, not me."

I don't know who half the people are who are posting in this thread the last 3 days.

I’m gonna get Scotland Yard on this mystery

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Nope, I don’t. Not that that’s relevant or a requirement for me to care about people who do. I have empathy for business owners during these times

Depending on the state, most businesses didn’t have to completely close at all.

Many businesses around me like Starbucks, chik-fil-a etc. continue to operate the same way (no indoor dining) despite no current requirement in my area to do so.

 

[MisterPenguin]

what...are you talking about? the subject was covid deaths, which -- in case you've been living under a rock for the past eight months -- have a HUGE age gradient to them, not to mention a disproportional effect on sicker, frailer patients.

you don't think a country's age and underlying health should be considerations, thus making comparison difficult? you don't think how patients were treated makes a difference in mortality, especially when you considering some of the most densely populated US area were hit first widely used ill-advised treatment protocols from the WHO? you don't think the time from receiving a positive test to death (new jersey just counted a death this week where the positive test occurred six months ago) is relevant?

or you just had that american exceptionalism line cued up, thought it was clever, and just *had* to use it?

People: The U.S. is doing horrible with COVID compared to other nations.

You: The U.S. is too different from other countries to make that kind of comparison!

People: We make comparisons to other countries all the time. If the U.S. had it handled well but other nations didn't, no one would be saying, "Wait, we really can't congratulate ourselves because we're so different from other countries." Stop trying to assuage your nationalistic ego.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think this is a great approach and one I would take too!

It is a great approach, but there is still restrictions in place. The hotspots had restaurants, bars and gyms closed for 28 days to try to get cases under control. Again as has been from the beginning its up to us the people to follow the rules in place. Through the summer it was working but now as shown in the article attached people are tired and I believe just given up. It really isn't hard to wear a mask, social distance and stay home if you are sick. Its the last part that seems hard for people for some reason.


Things will get better but with what happened today it justs delays that. Seeing things like this happen is @Tink242424 is why my faith is not as high as yours.

At least 44 COVID-19 cases linked to wedding in Vaughan, Ont.

York Region Public Health says at least 44 confirmed cases of COVID-19 have been linked to a wedding in Vaughan, becoming the second largest cluster of cases connected to such an event in the region.

beta.ctvnews.ca

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

People: The U.S. is doing horrible with COVID compared to other nations.

You: The U.S. is too different from other countries to make that kind of comparison!

People: We make comparisons to other countries all the time. If the U.S. had it handled well but other nations didn't, no one would be saying, "Wait, we really can't congratulate ourselves because we're so different from other countries." Stop trying to assuage your nationalistic ego.

The US has a LARGE percentage of its land mass that is sparsely populated...boondocks - basically.

Controlling those areas should not have been that hard. Look at the flash map today...it’s not Manhattan and LA County getting crushed.

I know...amazon...blame amazon

And the attitude that the US “isn’t really part of this planet” has been a major hindrance here.

The 20th century is over...we need to wise up and move beyond some of those tropes.

 

[Heppenheimer]

People: The U.S. is doing horrible with COVID compared to other nations.

You: The U.S. is too different from other countries to make that kind of comparison!

People: We make comparisons to other countries all the time. If the U.S. had it handled well but other nations didn't, no one would be saying, "Wait, we really can't congratulate ourselves because we're so different from other countries." Stop trying to assuage your nationalistic ego.

The Economist wouldn't have much to write about on a weekly basis if it wasn't possible to compare countries on various metrics.

Newsflash: In the US, we actually do some things quite well. Others, we do not so well as many of our peers. The COVID-19 response definitely falls in the latter category.

 

[disneycp]

Depending on the state, most businesses didn’t have to completely close at all.

Many businesses around me like Starbucks, chik-fil-a etc. continue to operate the same way (no indoor dining) despite no current requirement in my area to do so.

Im honestly not too concerned about giant companies like Starbucks and Chik fil a.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Anti-restrictions because the prospect of the government being able to shut down your business without your input is terrifying to me. Now that that precedent has been established, they may not have such a good reason to do it next time.

The precedent has existed for decades. The fire department can shut down your business because you have too much clutter near your exit door or because you kept a material in the wrong place.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

People: The U.S. is doing horrible with COVID compared to other nations.

You: The U.S. is too different from other countries to make that kind of comparison!

People: We make comparisons to other countries all the time. If the U.S. had it handled well but other nations didn't, no one would be saying, "Wait, we really can't congratulate ourselves because we're so different from other countries." Stop trying to assuage your nationalistic ego.

I’m so sick of hearing “it’s like comparing apples to oranges” - the USA is not some magical place that is beyond compare.

 

[disneycp]

The precedent has existed for decades. The fire department can shut down your business because you have too much clutter near your exit door or because you kept a material in the wrong place.

that’s...a pretty terrible comparison. You’re comparing being able to shutdown businesses on an individual basis based on regulations they know about beforehand to being able to shutdown businesses across the board with no notice. Just...no.

 

[easyrowrdw]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how a few of you feel. I have never seen a country so divided like the US is right now. I'm trying to understand that side of things but I struggle to. On one hand the few are against any form of restrictions also seem to be against any form of government aid. I posted an article showing how the Canadian government gave people money to those affected by Covid and businesses got the money to help them too. All I got was laughter from @rowrbazzle and @mousefan1972.

What are you even talking about? The article you posted was completely faulty. The US doled out $1,200 per adult + $500 per kid. They offered numerous small business loans and other similar measures. They increased unemployment payments for months and states and municipalities set eviction moratoriums. The feds spent $2,000,000,000,000 (that's $2 trillion) on the relief package. Almost every Canadian example cited has a comparable example in the US. The premise of the article was flawed and laughably so.

 

[lazyboy97o]

that’s...a pretty terrible comparison. You’re comparing being able to shutdown businesses on an individual basis based on regulations they know about beforehand to being able to shutdown businesses across the board with no notice. Just...no.

Your issue was it being without the owner's input. These issues happen because the owners do not know it is a problem or do not care. Even then building and fire codes give officials incredibly wide latitude to make decisions. There are also other precedents like hurricanes and the imposition of curfews. There are also cases where activities become outlawed.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Im honestly not too concerned about giant companies like Starbucks and Chik fil a.

that’s...a pretty terrible comparison.

So if you don’t want to discuss it, it’s a bad comparison or doesn’t apply.