Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[disneycp]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how a few of you feel. I have never seen a country so divided like the US is right now. I'm trying to understand that side of things but I struggle to. On one hand the few are against any form of restrictions also seem to be against any form of government aid. I posted an article showing how the Canadian government gave people money to those affected by Covid and businesses got the money to help them too. All I got was laughter from @rowrbazzle and @mousefan1972.

I’m a mix of both. Anti-restrictions because the prospect of the government being able to shut down your business without your input is terrifying to me. Now that that precedent has been established, they may not have such a good reason to do it next time.

But I’m very pro-government aid for anyone who needs it. The government shouldn’t be able to restrict you from working (IMO), BUT, if they do, they need to be giving you money to stay home. My thoughts

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I really take heart in hearing that I’m not the only person who has called you out before. But serious question - what would be the point of me making a second account on an already anonymous forum just to poke fun at you?

Well since you’re “new”...you wouldn’t have been around as it’s happened literally dozens of times on these covid threads since the failures became pronounced in the summer surge...but since you’re new...and yet have canned sarcasm/gripe...you wouldn’t know that.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

herd immunity isn't a theory. herd immunity is a scientific fact, just like gravity. any vaccination strategy ALSO relies on herd immunity. it is not a "fringe theory." this article you posted is not only bias garbage, it's fundamentally wrong. it cites tom friedman (google him and see how upstanding a citizen he is, by the way) and his completely ridiculous calculations that assume that there is ZERO pre-existing immunity in the population: the exact same modeling assumption that lead the IHME, imperial college, and other alarmist models to be SO WRONG. it also cites mask modeling studies that assume masks are useful to say...masks are useful. GEE, I CAN'T BELIEVE THE FINDINGS!!! (by the way, IHME predicted at the end of september over 400,000 deaths by the end of the year, then revised it down to 360k by the end of the year just two weeks later. their current prediction is 385k by february 1. they literally do nothing but get predicitons wrong.

the scientists behind the great barrington declaration are three supremely credentialed scientists, two of which have politics that are left-of-center. sunetra gupta is literally one of the premiere voices in virology and immunology.

Fine.. don’t like who wrote it? Try these..from Healthline

What Herd Immunity Means for COVID-19

Herd immunity refers to a buildup of immunity in a population due to natural immunity or the administration of vaccines.

www.healthline.com

from John Hopkins...

Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Protecting Health, Saving Lives—Millions at a Time

www.jhsph.edu

from WHO..

Episode #1 - Herd immunity

WHO’s Chief Scientist, Dr Soumya Swaminathan explains herd immunity.

www.who.int

 

[Heppenheimer]

Just a quick word on "herd immunity". Other than very localized, short-lasting examples with measles and rubella prior to the vaccine (and a now unacceptably high amount of morbidity and mortality), we have never achieved wide-scale and lasting herd immunity for any human disease without an effective vaccine. COVID-19 will be no different.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just a quick word on "herd immunity". Other than very localized, short-lasting examples with measles and rubella prior to the vaccine (and an unacceptably high amount of morbidity and mortality), we have never achieved wide-scale and lasting herd immunity for any human disease without an effective vaccine. COVID-19 will be no different.

...that’s not gonna stop people from now saying we can get herd immunity “like the flu...”

Which of course would be a trick because we don’t have it at all. Wait for it...

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Anti-restrictions because the prospect of the government being able to shut down your business without your input is terrifying to me.

Do you own a business?

 

[MaryJaneP]

Unfortunately, the terms "Herd Immunity" have apparently been co-opted by some to mean "do nothing" and eventually a population may develop the cells needed to fight this virus. If a vaccine-induced herd immunity is what you mean as opposed to a do-nothing or do-as-little-as-possible type of solution, please feel free to state so. Reading previous posts from you and your comrades seemed to lead to the conclusion that you were of the do-nothing group. Do you think a vaccine is one of the ways needed to fight this virus?

And as for aspiring to a hopeful rapid conclusion to this nightmare, guilty as charged.

 

[disneycp]

Well since you’re “new”...you wouldn’t have been around as it’s happened literally dozens of times on these covid threads since the failures became pronounced in the summer surge...but since you’re new...and yet have canned sarcasm/gripe...you wouldn’t know that.

I like that you think it’s one person creating multiple accounts just to argue with you instead of the much more likely alternative that there are multiple people on here who don’t agree with you.

 

[disneycp]

Do you own a business?

Nope, I don’t. Not that that’s relevant or a requirement for me to care about people who do. I have empathy for business owners during these times

 

[Jrb1979]

I’m a mix of both. Anti-restrictions because the prospect of the government being able to shut down your business without your input is terrifying to me. Now that that precedent has been established, they may not have such a good reason to do it next time.

But I’m very pro-government aid for anyone who needs it. The government shouldn’t be able to restrict you from working (IMO), BUT, if they do, they need to be giving you money to stay home. My thoughts

That is what they have been doing here in Canada. Here they are doing their best not to shutdown things again. It all starts from the top. Here the message from day one is that all of us have to work together to get through this. Follow the guidelines put in place and they big one is stay home if you're sick. Since most cases are from family gatherings and private parties it really needs to be drilled into people's heads. Stay home if you are sick.

 

[BrianLo]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how a few of you feel. I have never seen a country so divided like the US is right now. I'm trying to understand that side of things but I struggle to. On one hand the few are against any form of restrictions also seem to be against any form of government aid. I posted an article showing how the Canadian government gave people money to those affected by Covid and businesses got the money to help them too. All I got was laughter from @rowrbazzle and @mousefan1972.

I actually don't think a single American is happy with the response, which tells you all you need to know. Whether it was an overcall or an under call, I really don't see anyone "satisfied" that things have been done correctly start to finish.

We had one case of COVID in my health region of almost a million over the last week. ONE.

North America is definitely capable of being better. But stubbornness gets in the way below the 49th parallel for some reason.

 

[disneycp]

That is what they have been doing here in Canada. Here they are doing their best not to shutdown things again. It all starts from the top. Here the message from day one is that all of us have to work together to get through this. Follow the guidelines put in place and they big one is stay home if you're sick. Since most cases are from family gatherings and private parties it really needs to be drilled into people's heads. Stay home if you are sick.

I think this is a great approach and one I would take too!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I like that you think it’s one person creating multiple accounts just to argue with you instead of the much more likely alternative that there are multiple people on here who don’t agree with you.

Who ever doubted that? You should know I’m not under the impression I’m “winning anyone to my side”

I think you know that. And yet...the hoaxers are pretty much gone. Across the entire board. It’s just the “new” ones...

Nope, I don’t. Not that that’s relevant or a requirement for me to care about people who do. I have empathy for business owners during these times

Do you work for a hospital in florida and have little other life experience?

...this game is fun.

 

[bdearl41]

That is what they have been doing here in Canada. Here they are doing their best not to shutdown things again. It all starts from the top. Here the message from day one is that all of us have to work together to get through this. Follow the guidelines put in place and they big one is stay home if you're sick. Since most cases are from family gatherings and private parties it really needs to be drilled into people's heads. Stay home if you are sick.

Bingo. Stay home if you’re sick. I work at a financial institution. Before this year people with the flu loved to come to check on their finances. Even would say I’m off today because I’m sick. Why did you come here idiot?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I like that you think it’s one person creating multiple accounts just to argue with you instead of the much more likely alternative that there are multiple people on here who don’t agree with you.

Permanent bans can happen. People get to know each other and people's writing/posting styles...one may create a new account in order to not be "known". (Even though it's against the site ToS.)

 

[baymenxpac]

Fine.. don’t like who wrote it? Try these..from Healthline

What Herd Immunity Means for COVID-19

Herd immunity refers to a buildup of immunity in a population due to natural immunity or the administration of vaccines.

www.healthline.com

from John Hopkins...

Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Protecting Health, Saving Lives—Millions at a Time

www.jhsph.edu

from WHO..

Episode #1 - Herd immunity

WHO’s Chief Scientist, Dr Soumya Swaminathan explains herd immunity.

www.who.int

there are two primary assumptions on herd immunity: 1) it's a straight 70% threshold in the population that need to be "immune" (more resistant than immune) either through infection or vaccination. 2) COVID has no existing human immunity.

the latter is what accounts for those herd immunity predictions of mass death. but it has already been proven to be untrue through multiple peer-reviewed papers. and like various experts, including dr. gupta, have said many times publicly, HIT (herd immunity threshold) is not a straight 70% calculation; it varies based on existing underlying population immunity. additionally, we also know that the vast majority of COVID cases are asymptomatic, making a true infection number virtually impossible to calculate. so any article that says, "X many people would DIE with a herd immunity strategy" is straight up whiffing on and/or ignoring the most basic pieces of this science.

herd immunity has become a polarizing term only because politicians have beaten that belief into you.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Unfortunately, the terms "Herd Immunity" have apparently been co-opted by some to mean "do nothing" and eventually a population may develop the cells needed to fight this virus. If a vaccine-induced herd immunity is what you mean as opposed to a do-nothing or do-as-little-as-possible type of solution, please feel free to state so. Reading previous posts from you and your comrades seemed to lead to the conclusion that you were of the do-nothing group. Do you think a vaccine is one of the ways needed to fight this virus?

And as for aspiring to a hopeful rapid conclusion to this nightmare, guilty as charged.

Guilty as well. I was also guilty of thinking that this would be no worse than MERS, SARS or even a particularly bad flu season. But the last 8 months of data has convinced me otherwise. That's how the scientific process is supposed to work. Adapt as the evidence becomes more detailed and refined.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Permanent bans can happen. People get to know each other and people's writing/posting styles...one may create a new account in order to not be "known". (Even though it's against the site ToS.)

I’ve often been accused of being multiple people...but I stick out like a sore subcutaneous lesion so I never get an example of a post from my “ghost” account. And never will. It’s pointless.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Just a quick word on "herd immunity". Other than very localized, short-lasting examples with measles and rubella prior to the vaccine (and a now unacceptably high amount of morbidity and mortality), we have never achieved wide-scale and lasting herd immunity for any human disease without an effective vaccine. COVID-19 will be no different.

Exactly right and well put. It won’t work for this virus right now and the reasons are numerous.

There are several reasons why herd immunity isn’t the answer to stopping the spread of the new coronavirus:

1. There isn’t yet a vaccine for SARS-CoV-2. Vaccinations are the safest way to practice herd immunity in a population.
2. The research for antivirals and other medications to treat COVID-19 is ongoing.
3. Scientists don’t know if you can contract SARS-CoV-2 and develop COVID-19 more than once.
4. People who contract SARS-CoV-2 and develop COVID-19 can experience serious side effects. Severe cases can lead to death.
5. Doctors don’t yet know exactly why some people who contract SARS-CoV-2 develop severe COVID-19, while others do not.
6. Vulnerable members of society, such as older adults and people with some chronic health conditions, could get very sick if they’re exposed to this virus.
7. Otherwise healthy and younger people may become very ill with COVID-19.
8. Hospitals and healthcare systems may be overburdened if many people develop COVID-19 at the same time.

 

[disneycp]

Permanent bans can happen. People get to know each other and people's writing/posting styles...one may create a new account in order to not be "known". (Even though it's against the site ToS.)

Well I can’t really convince you guys of anything so believe what you want. I think mods can look at IP’s and see if someone has multiple accounts. But I’m really just here because, like I’ve said before, I work(ed) at Disney and am following along with the pandemic’s effects on it. I doubt I would keep posting on here after things become more certain