Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[baymenxpac]

Hold on, the goal was to spread out the timing of infections? No, the goal was and is (though many are still hellbent on screwing it up) bringing cases down. If it wasn't, then New York did it wrong and ended up RIGHT.

nnnnnnnope. that's not at all true. the initial "flatten the curve" graphic was about maintaining hospital capacity. the fact that this has been memory holed speaks to just how well the goal posts were moved:

https://www.fastcompany.com/90476143/the-story-behind-flatten-the-curve-the-defining-chart-of-the-coronavirus

 

[GoofGoof]

I put very little faith in polls, especially in this current atmosphere. In my opinion, many of the people who say they wouldn't go if Disney isn't requiring masks wouldn't go in any event. If people are willing to go right now with the mask mandate, I'm all for it. It will help keep Disney in business.

Like I’ve said all along, people are free to believe what they want. The poll was conducted and results were shared. Maybe people weren’t honest when asked the question. Who knows.

I know for sure the number of people who wouldn’t go if masks were not required right now isn’t zero based on people I know who have gone and who are going soon. Many people posting here and in other threads on this forum have gushed about how they thought Disney was doing a great job with their precautions. I can’t say with any level of confidence that removing mask requirements would increase or decrease attendance and I’m not sure how anyone else here can either.

More importantly Disney has internal guest survey data which I’m sure they are relying on. If they wanted to they could make the mask rules less restrictive, they could choose not to enforce them as thoroughly, etc... Instead they have increased signage, they have clarified the rules removing the food and drink loophole while walking around and they continue to advertise the parks as safe including highlighting the use of masks. I believe that if internal survey data showed more people would prefer them not to require masks some of those things may not have happened. At a minimum they certainly wouldn’t be running ads featuring people in masks at the parks.

 

[Parker in NYC]

nnnnnnnope. that's not at all true. the initial "flatten the curve" graphic was about maintaining hospital capacity. the fact that this has been memory holed speaks to just how well the goal posts were moved:

https://www.fastcompany.com/90476143/the-story-behind-flatten-the-curve-the-defining-chart-of-the-coronavirus

The goal posts were to keep people safe. And all the red hotspots in the country were LAUGHING at NY. Outright laughing. They hated us anyway, let's be honest. And we were the test case. The President was laughing at us. Do you remember that environment? You can read about it in this darn thread. Stop with this crap. Truly. Stop. If you weren't here on the ground -- and I don't mean a luxury highrise -- you won't understand what we went through.

 

[Chi84]

Like I’ve said all along, people are free to believe what they want. The poll was conducted and results were shared. Maybe people weren’t honest when asked the question. Who knows.

I know for sure the number of people who wouldn’t go if masks were not required right now isn’t zero based on people I know who have gone and who are going soon. Many people posting here and in other threads on this forum have gushed about how they thought Disney was doing a great job with their precautions. I can’t say with any level of confidence that removing mask requirements would increase or decrease attendance and I’m not sure how anyone else here can either.

More importantly Disney has internal guest survey data which I’m sure they are relying on. If they wanted to they could make the mask rules less restrictive, they could choose not to enforce them as thoroughly, etc... Instead they have increased signage, they have clarified the rules removing the food and drink loophole while walking around and they continue to advertise the parks as safe including highlighting the use of masks. I believe that if internal survey data showed more people would prefer them not to require masks some of those things may not have happened. At a minimum they certainly wouldn’t be running ads featuring people in masks at the parks.

They want to run ads with people in them. Do you think they would have run them showing people not wearing masks?

With the capacity as limited as it is right now, there’s no reason to lessen mask requirements. That will change.

 

[Horizons '83]

The goal posts were to keep people safe. And all the red hotspots in the country were LAUGHING at NY. Outright laughing. They hated us anyway, let's be honest. And we were the test case. The President was laughing at us. Do you remember that environment? You can read about it in this darn thread. Stop with this crap. Truly. Stop. If you weren't here on the ground -- and I don't mean a luxury highrise -- you won't understand what we went through.

The way I always understood it was that the goal posts were to minimize the stress on the hospitals. That was the initial reason for the shutdowns/lockdowns etc. Why weren't masks highly recommended in March/April? Well, again to protect hospitals, to make sure they had enough PPE and so the hoards of Americans wouldn't snatch them up like they did with TP. The side effect of that was it was keeping people safe, sort of.

 

[Tink242424]

Just some facts on the Sweden myth:

• Sweden did not have as many mandatory closures on things like restaurants and bars compared to the US, but they did and still do have restrictions. On the topic of WDW, if the park was in Sweden it would be closed right now. Most of us are a little frustrated with CA for not allowing DLR to open, it wouldn’t be open in Sweden either. Something I think a lot of people maybe don’t realize because in certain circles that info wouldn‘t fit the narrative.
• Sweden’s economy tanked, just like all world economies. Not “locking down“ did little to save their economy...which was the primary reason to do it. Like it or not the world economy is linked and you can’t just undo that on a whim. We will need to wait several years likely to look back and see if there was any real economic benefit to the Sweden plan.
• The primary myth is that life went on business as usual in Sweden, it didn’t. Although the government didn’t mandate lockdowns people still restricted their own actions. Bars and movie theaters and restaurants were allowed to be open but there was a very large decrease in activity overall. This is also ignored in a lot of circles. As it relates to WDW, there’s a similar myth that if all Covid restrictions were removed business would go back to normal. Also unlikely to be true. I know it frustrates people to hear but you can’t force the masses to participate in the economy during a pandemic. In other words Covid killed the economy not government imposed restrictions. The restrictions expedited the process but it’s very unlikely that the economy would be fine or even better off right now. As we see in FL right now there are no government restrictions but tourism hasn’t returned in any meaningful way and many, many people are still unemployed.

The funny thing is that when I read this I think that this is how we should handle the pandemic in the US and probably would have 30-40 years ago. No one needs mandatory quarantines or masking as the large majority would do this already. You are never going to get 100% of people to all do the same thing even when there are laws. So treat people with dignity and respect and give them the truth and the vast majority will do the right thing. I know most will disagree with me but this is how it should have been handled here. Not allowing some dictator governors to hold people hostage when they could implement safe procedures and still go out and function in society.

 

[baymenxpac]

The goal posts were to keep people safe. And all the red hotspots in the country were LAUGHING at NY. Outright laughing. They hated us anyway, let's be honest. And we were the test case. The President was laughing at us. Do you remember that environment? You can read about it in this darn thread. Stop with this crap. Truly. Stop.

so they were moved, but just in the name of safe?ty because it seems like your argument is changing as the facts are being re-presented to you.



i live in new york, just like it seems you do. i watched literally every single one of cuomo's press conferences. but i maintain intellectual honesty. i don't particularly care if red states were laughing. i don't care if the president was laughing. it is my job to stay informed for myself, my family, and my community. sorry if this doesn't comport with your personally held political beliefs. but when you use non-pharmaceutical interventions, your hope is to delay the infection peak so your hospital resources can keep up. it's not about suppressing cases. as you can very easily see as way back as the above tweet from feb 28.

 

[Parker in NYC]

The way I always understood it was that the goal posts were to minimize the stress on the hospitals. That was the initial reason for the shutdowns/lockdowns etc. Why weren't masks highly recommended in March/April? Well, again to protect hospitals, to make sure they had enough PPE and so the hoards of Americans wouldn't snatch them up like they did with TP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is he I understood it. The side effect of that was it was keeping people safe, sort of.

So, we're still doing it to protect hospitals? I thought it was more comprehensive than that. You know, allow businesses and schools to reopen safely. To protect the economy from getting worse. Tight quarters where people don't have the choice to just get in a car and drive somewhere else. Conservatives made and continue to make a big song and dance about the hospitals but what about all of the other dominoes? The domino effect of watching everything else crumble?

I can't sit by and read these continued attacks on my city -- a city that was put through the ringer and continues to be, even though we're the biggest success story in the country. And continue to be, comparatively.

 

[GoofGoof]

The funny thing is that when I read this I think that this is how we should handle the pandemic in the US and probably would have 30-40 years ago. No one needs mandatory quarantines or masking as the large majority would do this already. You are never going to get 100% of people to all do the same thing even when there are laws. So treat people with dignity and respect and give them the truth and the vast majority will do the right thing. I know most will disagree with me but this is how it should have been handled here. Not allowing some dictator governors to hold people hostage when they could implement safe procedures and still go out and function in society.

Who’s not allowed to go out and function today? More things are open today in the US than in Sweden, including theme parks and fans in the stands at sports games.

 

[Tink242424]

The chance to get it down to zero was back in January/February. But the measures needed to achieve it, and maintain it, would have been unacceptable to the people of the US.

It was never possible once the virus made its way out of China to multiple continents. The global effort that would have been needed wouldn't have happened. If China had been upfront about this virus from the beginning, the world would have had a chance.

 

[DisneyCane]

You’re moving your own goalposts. Is the 70%, (or 80%?), based on your thoughts and feelings or do you have a economic basis for that number?

The 80% is my real feeling. The 70% is what I'd bet actual money on.

 

[Parker in NYC]

so they were moved, but just in the name of safe?ty because it seems like your argument is changing as the facts are being re-presented to you.



i live in new york, just like it seems you do. i watched literally every single one of cuomo's press conferences. but i maintain intellectual honesty. i don't particularly care if red states were laughing. i don't care if the president was laughing. it is my job to stay informed for myself, my family, and my community. sorry if this doesn't comport with your personally held political beliefs. but when you use non-pharmaceutical interventions, your hope is to delay the infection peak so your hospital resources can keep up. it's not about suppressing cases. as you can very easily see as way back as the above tweet from feb 28.

It's about ELIMINATING cases thereby preventing others from catching the disease. What part of this doesn't make sense to you "intellectually"? At least intellectuals can capitalize their damn sentences.

 

[Parker in NYC]

It was never possible once the virus made its way out of China to multiple continents. The global effort that would have been needed wouldn't have happened. If China had been upfront about this virus from the beginning, the world would have had a chance.

I see, so let's just claim defeat and let it be. Blame China (Blame Canada... sorry, had to say it... South Park fan) and throw your hands up and say, well, I'm over COVID, let's run free!

 

[GoofGoof]

They want to run ads with people in them. Do you think they would have run them showing people not wearing masks?

With the capacity as limited as it is right now, there’s no reason to lessen mask requirements. That will change.

No they wouldn’t run an ad showing people not wearing masks when you are trying to show it’s safe to come back. That’s the point.

 

[GoofGoof]

Just for reference here’s a clip of the ad I’m referring to. There’s IMHO an obvious attempt to highlight masks.

Disney World Debuts 2020 Holiday Commercial

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com

 

[Horizons '83]

So, we're still doing it to protect hospitals? I thought it was more comprehensive than that. You know, allow businesses and schools to reopen safely. To protect the economy from getting worse. Tight quarters where people don't have the choice to just get in a car and drive somewhere else. Conservatives made and continue to make a big song and dance about the hospitals but what about all of the other dominoes? The domino effect of watching everything else crumble?

I can't sit by and read these continued attacks on my city -- a city that was put through the ringer and continues to be, even though we're the biggest success story in the country. And continue to be, comparatively.

Forgive me if you thought I was attacking anything or your state. I didn't read the last few pages thoroughly. I was just offering you what my understanding was of the initial few weeks of lockdown from what our governor here said. Everything you said is spot on, but I always thought it started with protecting hospitals from overrunning. I don't think the goal posts necessarily moved as some say, and I can appreciate what Cuomo has done there, the data alone proves that he has has done a fantastic job considering what he started with.

 

[techgeek]

The 80% is my real feeling. The 70% is what I'd bet actual money on.

Fair enough. I'd disagree on the 70%, on the basis that excluding international and business travel already knocks 20-30% off the top. Not only would leisure have to deliver its entire normal segment, it would have to pretty quickly make up for those losses that are unlikely to return as quickly.

 

[nokahoma]

About the mask mandate: Next week I am going to WDW for the first time since the first three days of March. I cancelled my AP over the summer because I had most of a year left and knew I wouldn't get much use out of it until a vaccine. Based on the positive reports from the first few weeks of the reopening, I decided in August I'd try it out for myself, and the earliest I could go was next week. I absolutely would not be going if they relaxed the mask mandate. Even with the mandatory masks, almost everybody I know thinks it's ridiculous to go to a theme park during this. If Disney did relax those precautions, I'm positive it would hurt their business--people know there's a risk, but if everybody is wearing masks that risk is significantly reduced. I don't go places where masks are optional, and I definitely wouldn't drop several hundred dollars to go to a theme park that wasn't doing everything it reasonably could to keep its customers safe.

 

[baymenxpac]

So, we're still doing it to protect hospitals? I thought it was more comprehensive than that. You know, allow businesses and schools to reopen safely. To protect the economy from getting worse. Tight quarters where people don't have the choice to just get in a car and drive somewhere else. Conservatives made and continue to make a big song and dance about the hospitals but what about all of the other dominoes? The domino effect of watching everything else crumble?

I can't sit by and read these continued attacks on my city -- a city that was put through the ringer and continues to be, even though we're the biggest success story in the country. And continue to be, comparatively.

It's about ELIMINATING cases thereby stopping others from catching the disease. What part of this doesn't make sense to you "intellectually"? At least intellectuals can capitalize their damn sentences.

intellectually HONEST. it means i don't force myself to think one way because of any predetermined biases (i.e. what my preferred politicians tell me to think). but please, tell e.e. cummings your thoughts of punctuation.

look, you seem fed up. that's good. my opinion is that you direct that anger toward the people that are keeping "your" city and its economy from recovery, even as community transmission has stayed at ~1% positivity for the past five months. as much as we new yorkers love to claim superiority, we're only the biggest success story in the country because the epidemic was so out of control here in the spring that it's very likely there's a population resistance now.

as far as the hospital capacity thing, you're trying to retcon facts, are being shown evidence of those facts, and then just getting mad. you're entitled and everything, but...i don't really think it's doing the good you think it's doing.

i'm not a conservative. i'm pretty sure my multiple financial contributions to bernie sanders would preclude me from being invited to any GOP parties. but i never pass up a good crab cake, so i'm holding out hope!

 

[GoofGoof]

Fair enough. I'd disagree on the 70%, on the basis that excluding international and business travel already knocks 20-30% off the top already. Not only would leisure have to deliver its entire normal segment, it would have to pretty quickly make up for those losses that are unlikely to return as quickly.

Agreed. Don‘t forget the number of people who also visit WDW as part of a convention or related to business travel. Add to that the people going for sporting events or school type trips (pop Warner football, cheerleading stuff, school band trips, etc)That stuff is almost at zero too. Between international travel, business travel and other special interest trips you are likely down at least 1/3 and that doesn’t even consider anyone who wouldn’t want to go even if there wasn’t a travel quarantine.