On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[Thelazer]

WOW..... things are bad

All parks are tbh

I said as much in another thread.. but no one took it seriously.

 

[PhotoDave219]

If they don't want people coming why open at all?

Without getting political? Because of governmental and economic pressures.

..... That and approximately $2.5M a day from the NBA. (Thats the figure i was told - could be higher, could be lower)

IMHO, nothing should be open until this public health emergency is under control.

Its nowhere close to being under control.

 

[PhotoDave219]

First, obligitory "OMG it's @PhotoDave219 ! @mkt ! @ParentsOf4 !" - it kind of feels like Old Home Week. Or, more accurately, it feels like one of those milestone times when you only see certain people - the whole "we only see each other at weddings and funerals these days," and let's face it...this ain't a wedding.



There were probably 30+ posts in this thread that I wanted to reply while reading the entire thing, but this one above speaks as close to anything to the reality of this situation, and this is the first chance I have had. When I read some of these posts thinking that pretty much anything is going back to normal any time even remotely soon is in the "denial" mode of acceptance.

The thought that "oh, Disney is just slow because people don't want to wear masks" idea is...preposterous. Those masks are the only reason they are even allowed to open.

There seems to be some, er, regional differences in what folks are reporting here. So for the record, I'm in the north east (New England) - which, unless something has changed, is pretty much Disney's top market (and I believe someone else verified this a few pages ago).

What I can tell you, we are still taking this very seriously here. Sure, there is the odd crazy "oh this is all overblown!" bracket, but masks are still a fact of life. Just grocery shopping is still a major event - and we still are having hit and miss days in what is stocked (lately, you can find toilet paper OR paper towels, but for some reason, almost no matter where you rarely find both, and if they do, it's just one or two brands). An exceptional trip out would be to actually sit down at an outdoor restaurant, where everyone including staff is masked unless you are sitting at a table.

With all this going on - if you looked at most people and said, "You know what, I'm going to Disney World!" they would look at you like you were insane. Florida is in the running for hot spot of the world, and going to such a notoriously public place as a theme park, Walt Disney World, of all places. I mean, they utterly wouldn't believe you and would think you were joking.

Even best case scenario, even if some miracle vaccine gets released, sure, more people would come - but there are a lot of people who still wouldn't even consider coming for years, even then. There is also so much we still do not know, as well - sure, you might not die if you get it, but we are just finding out that even those that recover have lasting effects and we have no idea which of them may turn out to be long-term. Many people are not willing to risk this, particularly for something as frivolous as Disney.

Now, that part aside - I also don't think everyone understands economically what is going on right now (back to the post I quoted above). The trickle-up, side-ways, every-ways, economic losses are just beginning. The economy is like a giant set of dominoes, going off in all directions. It happened very quickly to certain industries (travel, entertainment, restaurants) but the true economic loss (and job loss) is just really beginning, especially because it looks like this is all (lockdowns, etc.) are going to be happening all over again in many places as we turn to fall.

Many of the small and even medium businesses that depend on foot traffic that have managed to survive to this point have been able to do so because of things like the PPP which allowed them to keep employees during the initial shutdown. That is over now, and business for many has not come back. They just squeaked through a few months with help, because everyone thought it was going to be over and done with and we'd be "back to normal" by now. What is happening is close to what people are describing is happening even at WDW - they blew through a lot of cash keeping people employed, admirably, but inadvertently those employees would have done a lot better and would be better off now if they had just been laid off to begin with as government benefits are (as of now) expired.

There is going to be a lot more job loss, a lot more businesses closing, and a lot more unemployed people, especially in any industry related to travel in any way, even tangentially. Business/convention travel is DEAD. DEAD as a doornail. And, *not* just because as COVID - it will not recover in any where near real form, most likely. Like many things, COVID has greatly accelerated what was already happening.

After the '08 economic crisis, people thought the same thing - that virtual meetings would take over, etc. It didn't happen, mostly because even then, technology wasn't that great. Devices weren't as ubiquitous (the iPhone had just been released, for reference). But the lockdowns FORCED people to quickly adapt, and a dozen years later - we are so much more connected and the technology is a lot better. Corporations around the world are realizing they don't need to spend millions of dollars a year shuttling people around on business trips when most of them were just for "face time". The days of being sent to a week-long conference in Vegas or Orlando for...pretty much anything, are over.

Of course, this all ties in to the tourist industry - everywhere - because most places (even Orlando) who have a large tourist industry also depend on business travel/conventions as part of their backbone due to the infrastructure/etc. Even if the tourist industry came back full-swing, the losses are enormous. Sure, Disney will somehow cope - but the rest of Orlando? Everyone from the off-site hotels, car services, restaurants, stores - the economic impact is just beginning. And this is happening in so many places in so many ways right now, to any town/city that is travel/tourism based (and that's a lot more than you think).

I've read here people talking about Vegas, and back to New England where I am the story is similar- all the coastal resort towns are being decimated. As I described above, many were able to make it into July because of various assistance or simply being able to weather the storm, holding out that they could rescue the summer. It isn't happening. The ultra-wealthy (the 1%) who own expensive property are here (most flying privately), but they are holed up in their estates and aren't out spending money locally except perhaps grocery delivery.

The other people who are here...aren't spending money. In one of the Vegas posts it was described best as the type of people who rent a cheap hotel, buy a bottle of booze from Walgreens, and then just hang around not spending money. It's just that the ones up here are from New York, and not California. The "normal" middle and upper class visitors who do spend money, who stay at nice places, who eat at nice restaurants every day, who use local services like taxis and such - the ones the majority of the money comes from - simply are not here. And given that most businesses in towns like these up and down the coast depends on these 12 - 16 weeks a year to be able to stay open through the winter...yeah, the economic impact is going to continue, and much of this business is not coming back, for at least a very long time.

Good post. Nice to see you too.

You're right, conferences and conventions are over. Companies just saved a boatload of travel money by realizing they can just use zoom.

We can't start heading back to normal or figuring out what a sense of normal is until this fire is out. This fire is still out of control. Faster it ends, faster we can figure out "what next."

 

[Matthew]

The people that say the food is bad at Disney all have the same thing in common - they ate at Cosmic Ray's

loved the pulled pork they used to do there!

 

[marni1971]

I said as much in another thread.. but no one took it seriously.

Maybe they’ll take this seriously. A few screencaps from a project I’m working on. Shot by someone not a million miles from here, around two weeks ago, late morning on a nice dry day, in Disney’s new billion dollar flagship land.

 

[The_Jobu]

Maybe they’ll take this seriously. A few screencaps from a project I’m working on. Shot by someone not a million miles from here, around two weeks ago, late morning on a nice dry day, in Disney’s new billion dollar flagship land.

View attachment 488388View attachment 488389View attachment 488390

Finally, enough space for scooters without all those stupid ankles in the way.

 

[mkt]

The violent ones have a never ending pot

If by a never ending pot you mean little left to lose, then yes.

 

[mkt]

I'm not done with the preposterous claim.......

Atlantis in Bahamas is doing just fine right now and its Cove has sold out the random days I checked.

No guest mask requirement there.

But US citizens are not welcome.

 

[tirian]

Without getting political? Because of governmental and economic pressures.

..... That and approximately $2.5M a day from the NBA. (Thats the figure i was told - could be higher, could be lower)

IMHO, nothing should be open until this public health emergency is under control.

Its nowhere close to being under control.

I’m not sure how politics play into it this late in the year. At this point, that narrative seems to be media-driven based on events from four months ago. Many states including NY contradict that story.

Across America, the pressure to maintain an economy is real. Florida’s economy just so happens to be predominantly based on tourism.

 

[mkt]

Some would complain about the FL heat.

Why? Most protesters are local to their communities. And if you live in Florida, you get used to the heat. You don't have to like it, but you're used to it.

I understand it's easy to believe the story that protesters are being bussed in. But they're not. At least not from far away. They don't have the money to bus people in. At most you'll get caravans of 3-4 cars from other parts of the state, but the vast majority of the people are from the county the protest is happening in, plus surrounding counties.

 

[natatomic]

This isn’t a matter of “I don’t want to wear a mask”. It’s a matter of “I don’t want to spend thousands on a vacation to WDW if I have to wear a mask in the uncomfortable heat for 15 hours.”

As a Florida resident, this reasoning doesn’t apply to you. It also explains why you don’t get it. WDW as it stands is a luxury to those who aren’t locals. If you aren’t getting an experience worth the money, why go?

Totally anecdotal, but I don’t think my view is terribly uncommon either. I live 2 miles away as the crow flies from animal kingdom, so I am very much a local. However, I have no plans to step foot on Disney property while there are mask requirements, unless it’s one of our rare 40° days in January or February.
Not to say that I’m against mask wearing! Not wanting to wear a mask in 90° weather with 100% humidity is not the same thing as being anti-mask. However, wearing one outside is not my idea of fun (more power to those who can handle it! You’re stronger than me!), so I will just sadly wait until the requirement is lifted, as much as that bums me out. Or at the very least, wait until in the winter.
And it is for this very reason that I, for the first time ever, bought annual passes to Legoland. My kids and I need something fun to do to get out of the house, and we used to go to Disney at least once or twice a week. So choosing to not go to Disney because of mask requirements means we have to look at other alternatives. And Legoland now has, in my opinion, reasonable rules regarding mask wearing. Only indoors, on rides, or while in line. Or, of course, where social distancing is not possible. Everyone is still kept safe while indoors or when in close proximity to others, but when you are just walking around on the midway away from everyone, you are not required to wear a hot mask.
so for my family, it is the mask acquirements that kept me away from one business and sent me to another. this, despite the fact that I do, in general, support mask wearing during the pandemic.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I’m not sure how politics play into it this late in the year. At this point, that narrative seems to be media-driven based on events from four months ago. Many states including NY contradict that story.

Across America, the pressure to maintain an economy is real. Florida’s economy just so happens to be predominantly based on tourism.

Thats basically what i meant. I meant STATE political pressures, not national.

My bad on not being clear as I'm tryin to toe the line here.....

Florida gets all its income from Sales Tax and tourism revenue. No tourists = no money.

 

[mkt]

“I don’t want to spend thousands on a vacation to WDW if I have to wear a mask in the uncomfortable heat for 15 hours.”

So save the thousands. With the direction the economy is going, you'll need that money later.

And wear a mask.

 

[Lilofan]

I'm not done with the preposterous claim.......

Atlantis in Bahamas is doing just fine right now and its Cove has sold out the random days I checked.

No guest mask requirement there.

Who is packing the hotel in the Bahamas?. Not U S Citizens. Last time we had drinks and ate at Atlantis there was a standing policy that locals were not allowed into the casino and grounds. Did Atlantis change their policy and admit locals?

 

[mkt]

All parks are tbh

Pretty much. But they aren't acting like it.

There's still 3 hour hold times for the monthly annual passholder phone line.

I wonder if I file a chargeback on next month's charge if they'll call me instead.

 

[tirian]

Thats basically what i meant. I meant STATE political pressures, not national.

My bad on not being clear as I'm tryin to toe the line here.....

Florida gets all its income from Sales Tax and tourism revenue. No tourists = no money.

I understand.

 

[Lilofan]

Why? Most protesters are local to their communities. And if you live in Florida, you get used to the heat. You don't have to like it, but you're used to it.

I understand it's easy to believe the story that protesters are being bussed in. But they're not. At least not from far away. They don't have the money to bus people in. At most you'll get caravans of 3-4 cars from other parts of the state, but the vast majority of the people are from the county the protest is happening in, plus surrounding counties.

Don't see it happening. Can see it happening in front of Crossroads McDonalds near Disney Springs.

 

[Castmbr]

Without getting political? Because of governmental and economic pressures.

..... That and approximately $2.5M a day from the NBA. (Thats the figure i was told - could be higher, could be lower)

IMHO, nothing should be open until this public health emergency is under control.

Its nowhere close to being under control.

The Furloughed Disney employees I imagine feel differently. It is amazing how people that still have income coming into their bank accounts are making such decisions. Just food for thought....

 

[mkt]

Mayan Riviera/Cancun is seeing a lot of bookings and travel.......no guest mask requirement at resorts.

It's also the largest country to still let Americans in... so yeah.

Volcano Bay is doing OK...way, way better than the 2 other parks which are ghost towns.

It's a water park in the Florida summer. The virus could cause skin to melt off in seconds and could be contagious within a mile, and people would still go to the waterpark.

 

[larryz]

WOW..... things are bad

That's a page out of Sea World Inc's playbook -- buy two days, get the rest of the year free.