Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Dutch Inn '76]

We're about to cancel a WDW trip for the third time this year. The first two were done for us (spring break and early July), and now we're about to cancel December on our own.

It's not up to speed down there, and might not be by Christmas either. We've gone to WDW or Disneyland, on average, once a year for the last 20 years. Frankly, I think we've gone too much. We should have taken half of those trips and gone somewhere (anywhere!) else. We replaced the July trip with a FABULOUS trip to Yellowstone and the Black Hills. The weather was perfect. Everything was beautiful, and the crowds were light. We're about to replace the December trip with skiing in Colorado.

Between the 'Rona and their politics, Disney is giving me other options...

 

[Heppenheimer]

Our children should simply take a gap year. They can travel through Europe since it's safe over there now.

Unfortunately, we in the US are barred from traveling to Europe right now.

Wouldn't be a bad idea, though. If more young people from the US spent time in some of the more well-run European countries, perhaps they might return with ideas on how we can improve things here. And actually put some pressure on our politicians to endorse those improvements.

 

[Kevin_W]

It's not just spacing...it's also still reducing the number of people the children come into contact with because only half of them are in the building. (It's still not enough, IMO)

That was my point - I don't think it significantly reduces the contact between kids. And the teacher comes into contact with both halves anyway. So while there is certainly some reduction in contact/risk, in my opinion it is not enough to warrant all the disruption and extra challenges posed by a split schedule. (I realize that reasonable minds can disagree on this.)

 

[ImperfectPixie]

That was my point - I don't think it significantly reduces the contact between kids. And the teacher comes into contact with both halves anyway. So while there is certainly some reduction in contact/risk, in my opinion it is not enough to warrant all the disruption and extra challenges posed by a split schedule. (I realize that reasonable minds can disagree on this.)

I actually do agree with you. Aside from groups of teachers/students forming "micro-schools" that aren't on school property, I really don't see a realistic way for students to maintain the same level of education at the same time they're able to reduce their circle of contacts to small enough numbers for it to be safe. The problem with "micro-schools" is you're going to have wealthy parents want to jump on the opportunity because they can afford it...but what about families who can't?

 

[xdan0920]

but what about families who can't?

Keeping schools closed because adults are scared is the most selfish act I can think of. I’ve given up on it though. The people out here acting like they are so virtuous, acting like they are saving lives by keeping schools closed, they are committing the most selfish, damaging act of modern times.

FWIW, my son will be fine. But man do I feel for the kids who won’t be.

 

[chrisvee]

Welp, our December Disney trip is cancelled and pushed back to February. I guess that extra week of vacation time I bought at work will be refunded for sure now.

Sucks but there's more important things going on.

I’m sorry.

I am about to cancel my October trip, I think.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Keeping schools closed because adults are scared is the most selfish act I can think of. I’ve given up on it though. The people out here acting like they are so virtuous, acting like they are saving lives by keeping schools closed, they are committing the most selfish, damaging act of modern times.

FWIW, my son will be fine. But man do I feel for the kids who won’t be.

This seems entirely misplaced. The truly selfish folks were the ones who didn’t take this seriously, didn’t mask, went to bars or other recreational places, had parties, and otherwise ensured that teachers have to risk their lives to do their jobs because the pandemic isn’t controlled. Also guilty are groups who didn’t spend months planning for safe reopenings, who felt simply demanding that schools reopen right now was enough.

Again, despite some self-serving folks arguing the opposite, it was a choice to be where we are.

 

[mmascari]

Around me there’s a school district that’s thinking of 2 days in school, 2 days home. So your child would go Monday’s and Thursday, others tuesdays and Fridays with Wednesday being the clean the school day. The days your not in school would be virtual.

There's things hiding in those details you need to look at. With that partial model, how are the 3 days of virtual really working? If it's like us, those are self directed online with no teacher interaction. Which becomes obvious when you realize the same teachers are teaching the other half and not available on the virtual days.

Our middle schools were looking at that plan. With 2 days in school, extended classes half the first day and half the second, then self directed the other 3 days. So, a split 2 days in building is really a 1 extended time in person class for each subject a week and the rest self directed. The high school was worse, 4 days over 3 weeks in school, because it was 3 groups instead of 2. Same extended classes, it's 2 extended time in person class for each subject every 3 weeks, the rest self directed.

The full virtual option for both middle and high school uses the same extended classes, but it's 2 of each subject every week. Half on Monday/Thursday, half on Tuesday/Friday and only Wednesday is self directed.

So, one way could be as little as 2 directed classes every 3 weeks, while the other would be 6 directed classes every 3 weeks. It's not clear the partial in person is really better.

It doesn't matter for us now though, they've gone all virtual for the first semester, until January.

MA is basically telling them to pound sand.

How fast is the testing in MA? And is the tracing robust and working?

If you're getting test results back in 24 hours or less from the time a test need is identified, and have robust tracing to identify exposures and test. Mix in some scheduled random sampling to catch school population testing and kick off missed tracing cycles. Then, opening could be just fine. A positive test in a classroom would be able to quarantine and test everyone in a day to see if there was a transmission and contain them.

On the other hand, if it's taking a week+ from the time a test need is identified, there's no way quarantine and test everyone on this kind of schedule. Nobody would be in the classroom anyway as they're always quarantine between "test need is identified" and "test result".

 

[ImperfectPixie]

There's things hiding in those details you need to look at. With that partial model, how are the 3 days of virtual really working? If it's like us, those are self directed online with no teacher interaction. Which becomes obvious when you realize the same teachers are teaching the other half and not available on the virtual days.

Our middle schools were looking at that plan. With 2 days in school, extended classes half the first day and half the second, then self directed the other 3 days. So, a split 2 days in building is really a 1 extended time in person class for each subject a week and the rest self directed. The high school was worse, 4 days over 3 weeks in school, because it was 3 groups instead of 2. Same extended classes, it's 2 extended time in person class for each subject every 3 weeks, the rest self directed.

The full virtual option for both middle and high school uses the same extended classes, but it's 2 of each subject every week. Half on Monday/Thursday, half on Tuesday/Friday and only Wednesday is self directed.

So, one way could be as little as 2 directed classes every 3 weeks, while the other would be 6 directed classes every 3 weeks. It's not clear the partial in person is really better.

It doesn't matter for us now though, they've gone all virtual for the first semester, until January.


How fast is the testing in MA? And is the tracing robust and working?

If you're getting test results back in 24 hours or less from the time a test need is identified, and have robust tracing to identify exposures and test. Mix in some scheduled random sampling to catch school population testing and kick off missed tracing cycles. Then, opening could be just fine. A positive test in a classroom would be able to quarantine and test everyone in a day to see if there was a transmission and contain them.

On the other hand, if it's taking a week+ from the time a test need is identified, there's no way quarantine and test everyone on this kind of schedule. Nobody would be in the classroom anyway as they're always quarantine between "test need is identified" and "test result".

I don't know that information. I'm going off what I've read that came from the Commissioner of Education, the superintendent, and talking to teachers. Those teachers who fall under high-risk categories are basically out of luck and will likely be forced to retire, choose to leave their jobs, or choose to accept the risk. The Commissioner is no longer working with the larger teachers union at all, and his #1 priority is putting as many students back into school buildings as possible. Our superintendent actually told us in a letter that he's not allowed to share any information until a meeting on August 3rd. We have no real idea what re-opening plans look like, other than the 3' minimum spacing put forth by the AAP is what is being used as a "social distancing" guideline...and that's 3' from seat-edge to seat-edge.

 

[GoofGoof]

On the school topic, I want my kids to go back to physical school...IF the district has a fully baked plan and the conditions are right to do it. I know it’s a political talking point right now, but what I see is a lot of people screaming “schools must open” and then sticking their fingers in their ears and refusing to listen to valid concerns. I believe schools can open under the right circumstance but there has to be a solid backup plan for if/when conditions deteriorate and we need to revert back to virtual learning. Even if physical schools stay open all year there are going to be kids (and teachers) who test positive. When a kid in a class tests positive they will be forced to quarantine. If they had physical contact with classmates the classmates will also be forced to quarantine at least until tested. There has to be a solid plan for what to do with these kids during those periods otherwise there’s no continuity of learning. Going for days or weeks physically to school then switching to virtual then back to physical, then back to virtual can potentially be more disruptive than full time virtual school if there’s not a good plan. The answer isn’t wishes and hopes or politically driven catch phrases about not being afraid of a virus. We need real solutions (and the money and resources to back them up) and I fear that the areas with the least resources will be the most impacted.

The biggest problem right now is a lot of the places where school goes back first are experience severe spikes in cases. We have a few weeks to go, but it may be prudent to consider delaying opening schools a few more weeks or a month to when the spikes may subside. Everyone needs to stay flexible and get learning in while we can, even if that means flexing the schedules. I know a few months back CA was considering starting school earlier than normal in anticipation of a rough start to winter flu season bjt I assume that plan is out now.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

This seems entirely misplaced. The truly selfish folks were the ones who didn’t take this seriously, didn’t mask, went to bars or other recreational places, had parties, and otherwise ensured that teachers have to risk their lives to do their jobs because the pandemic isn’t controlled. Also guilty are groups who didn’t spend months planning for safe reopenings, who felt simply demanding that schools reopen right now was enough.

Again, despite some self-serving folks arguing the opposite, it was a choice to be where we are.

Now after all our non action, then our “ well I’m going out because I’ve been stuck inside” action we are where we are today. And we have people calling teachers selfish because they may be afraid because of actions and non actions from people in this country. Not fair at all.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out -

 

[lazyboy97o]

Keeping schools closed because adults are scared is the most selfish act I can think of. I’ve given up on it though. The people out here acting like they are so virtuous, acting like they are saving lives by keeping schools closed, they are committing the most selfish, damaging act of modern times.

FWIW, my son will be fine. But man do I feel for the kids who won’t be.

Again, what do you do if/when multiple teachers are out sick for a few weeks?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Numbers are out -

View attachment 486019View attachment 486020View attachment 486021View attachment 486022

Just brutal numbers.

 

[xdan0920]

This seems entirely misplaced. The truly selfish folks were the ones who didn’t take this seriously, didn’t mask, went to bars or other recreational places, had parties, and otherwise ensured that teachers have to risk their lives to do their jobs because the pandemic isn’t controlled. Also guilty are groups who didn’t spend months planning for safe reopenings, who felt simply demanding that schools reopen right now was enough.

Again, despite some self-serving folks arguing the opposite, it was a choice to be where we are.

Nonsense. Pure and simple nonsense. I won’t be moved on this subject. My wife is a teacher. I have a son going into 1st grade. The science says schools are safe. Instead of following the science. We are following irrational fears and panic. New Jersey has the virus under control. And schools still aren’t opening fully. It’s not about control of the virus. It’s about panic, fear, and politics. It’s a local tragedy, a statewide tragedy, and a national tragedy. And people like you. Selfish people, with no kids, no skin in the game, are going to cause an achievement gap the likes of which this country has never seen. I weep for the youth of this country.

 

[xdan0920]

Again, what do you do if/when multiple teachers are out sick for a few weeks?

Figure it out. That’s what you do. Or we can simply make the achievement gap even wider, and more insurmountable. I know you’re too scared, these kids might infect someone who might infect someone else who might infect someone else who might infect you and then you’ll die, but that’s selfish and irrational of you.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

And actually put some pressure on our politicians to endorse those improvements

Isn’t that exactly what many young people are doing right now?

 

[Touchdown]

Nonsense. Pure and simple nonsense. I won’t be moved on this subject. My wife is a teacher. I have a son going into 1st grade. The science says schools are safe. Instead of following the science. We are following irrational fears and panic. New Jersey has the virus under control. And schools still aren’t opening fully. It’s not about control of the virus. It’s about panic, fear, and politics. It’s a local tragedy, a statewide tragedy, and a national tragedy. And people like you. Selfish people, with no kids, no skin in the game, are going to cause an achievement gap the likes of which this country has never seen. I weep for the youth of this country.

I think New Jersey could open schools with physical distancing and masks, their active cases are very low. However, New Jersey is one of the least active states right now, and likely has one of the highest levels of immune individuals (not enough for herd immunity but hopefully enough to slow the rate and properly contact trace and isolate.)

Florida, Utah, California, etc are very different stories

 

[easyrowrdw]

That was my point - I don't think it significantly reduces the contact between kids. And the teacher comes into contact with both halves anyway. So while there is certainly some reduction in contact/risk, in my opinion it is not enough to warrant all the disruption and extra challenges posed by a split schedule. (I realize that reasonable minds can disagree on this.)

A kid would come into prolonged contact with half the number of kids they would normally. It also allows for more distance between the kids in the classroom (in an indoor environment). I'm not sure what it does for the teachers, but I think that's a big reduction for kids.

This seems entirely misplaced. The truly selfish folks were the ones who didn’t take this seriously, didn’t mask, went to bars or other recreational places, had parties, and otherwise ensured that teachers have to risk their lives to do their jobs because the pandemic isn’t controlled. Also guilty are groups who didn’t spend months planning for safe reopenings, who felt simply demanding that schools reopen right now was enough.

Again, despite some self-serving folks arguing the opposite, it was a choice to be where we are.

It's very frustrating. Until about six weeks ago we were on track for schools to reopen mostly regularly. We were seeing mid double-digit cases and most days had zero or one deaths. But people got too comfortable, started getting together, and didn't wear masks. Now we're looking at days with over 1,000 cases and double-digit deaths. We're also seeing more hospitalizations among kids. So kids are starting online and universities are totally online.

 

[MissingDisney]

Around me there’s a school district that’s thinking of 2 days in school, 2 days home. So your child would go Monday’s and Thursday, others tuesdays and Fridays with Wednesday being the clean the school day. The days your not in school would be virtual. Just glad to see people putting their heads together to come up with something that would work. Of course this is all being decided now and they don’t go back to school until after Labor Day. Everything could change by then.

Ours is similar but the schedule is group 1-Monday/Tuesday in school, Wednesday disinfect day while all student attend virtual, group 2-Thursday/Friday in school. Students virtual on non-in-person days. The teachers are also divided into two groups so there are always teachers for the virtual days and in person days. Teachers who are high risk or not comfortable with returning are able to do the virtual teaching while the others who agree will provide the in person instruction teaching. Teachers are being tested on the disinfectant today and share virtual instructions on Wednesday.