Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[LittleBuford]

Whenever race is a part of discussion, things are going to be problematic...and this is why I think context and intent need to be taken into account. I'd forgotten about the end of the film that was mentioned up-thread...the boy and Uncle Remus holding hands...there is an important message there.

I definitely think the film was well intentioned and ideologically in keeping with the era in which it was made. But I also think it’s worth recognising the fact that the controversy surrounding it isn’t a modern “woke” invention.

 

[celluloid]

But the offence that people took in 1946 (and that most still take now) centres on the film’s romanticisation of plantation life, which was certainly intentional (though obviously not intended to be offensive).

Again, that does not seem to be different from anything that happens today and proves my point that there is no differnet. Since there was art, there were critiques. There are groups who practice pagenism who were against the new Sabrina series on Netflix as well as Christians who were ciritizing it for different and some similar reasons.
With Walt's focus,everything in a children's film is romantacized. Actually, everything in a fictional film is. People take offense to everything. There is always a group of I would even just say individuals who take offense to various aspects of a fictional piece of work.
Should we be so angry at Main Street USA because it romantaizes how walking down the street in an entire small town block would be at the turn of the century? Walt knew he was telling the story for children and never said he was going for gritty realism. Main Street, Poppins and post Walt you have Bedknobs and Broomsticks(I am offended that the musuem artifacts and armor could take down enemy soliders when there were real heroes doing it..etc."...the list goes on and on.
Tell the truth, but tell it slant for works of great fiction when you know your audience. The audience for Song of the South was family with children when a child has trouble at home and wants to run away. You find kindness in a place and in a person that has every reason to be hateful, but are kind and teach morals anyway.

 

[Joel]

I don’t think anyone is denying that Song of the South has also been positively viewed, including by people of colour. But to claim or imply (as some here are doing) that we’re judging the film unfairly by modern standards is to ignore the fact that the film was already controversial back when it was first released.

I did not intend to imply that Song of the South is only objectionable by modern standards, merely that it is laughable by any standard to expect a Disney movie from the '40s (or even 2020, for that matter) to be anywhere close to an accurate and unobjectionable depiction of the tough realities of life.

 

[celluloid]

I did not intend to imply that Song of the South is only objectionable by modern standards, merely that it is laughable by any standard to expect a Disney movie from the '40s (or even 2020, for that matter) to be anywhere close to an accurate and unobjectionable depiction of the tough realities of life.

Exactly
You would have to want to walk down Main Street USA and trip over gravel and avoid stepping in many....things.

Let's put it this way, I am fine with Liberty Square having painted sides of the road rather than actual sewage to get that gritty realism so people do not think that those folks had it wonderfully charming.

 

[21stamps]

Isn't everything though?
That is why I think Baskins' words are so appropriate for this discussion. It talks about the hate that comes from people finding offense far more damaging then the likely unintentional material itself.

Impossible standards. If we want every single thing to be strictly pure and innocent or set a requirement that it must be exactly related to something pure and innocent, no stains at all.. then we’re going to take everything down until nothing is left.

 

[celluloid]

Impossible standards. If we want every single thing to be strictly pure and innocent or set a requirement that it must be exactly related to something pure and innocent, no stains at all.. then we’re going to take everything down until nothing is left.

Exactly my point. I am never understanding why Song of the South is the one thing everyone wants so badly to be erased, but, they got it as much as something can possibly be erased. My point is this has been around since the first shared artwork, and will gon on forever. No acounting for taste, and everyone's critic are phrases for a reason.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Besides the racism charge I can think of a few other reasons they would want to change it: 1) While people know the song, most people only know the film from reputation. It's not like other Disney classic rides based on films that are seen over and over. 2) This retime will cost the least and take up the least time, as much of the sets and animatronics can be repurposed. 3) MERCHANDISE. I'm pretty sure Tiana merchandise will outsell B'rer Rabbit plush.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I definitely think the film was well intentioned and ideologically in keeping with the era in which it was made. But I also think it’s worth recognising the fact that the controversy surrounding it isn’t a modern “woke” invention.

Agreed. And I do think it's important for these discussions to take place. I really think schools in the US do us a disservice in that they don't include viewing things from more than one point of view (outside of literary analysis in English classes), and that they don't include lessons focusing on communication - the ability to have a disagreement without resorting to insults and name-calling - and conflict resolution.

 

[Incomudro]

Whenever race is a part of discussion, things are going to be problematic...and this is why I think context and intent need to be taken into account. I'd forgotten about the end of the film that was mentioned up-thread...the boy and Uncle Remus holding hands...there is an important message there.

Intent is a word that has unfortunately lost all meaning for too many.

 

[21stamps]

Exactly my point. I am never understanding why Song of the South is the one thing everyone wants so badly to be erased, but, they got it as much as something can possibly be erased. My point is this has been around since the first shared artwork, and will gon on forever. No acounting for taste, and everyone's critic are phrases for a reason.

We have a generation today who may never read a book such as To Kill a Mockingbird...see something that may cause them to think beyond today..or worst of all may never be presented with an opinion that differs from their own, because most of their life is lived online, blocking and muting anyone who disagrees, only “following” people who think the same as they do.... and as a result, is also easily manipulated, and doesn’t know how to use critical thinking skills.

 

[LittleBuford]

I did not intend to imply that Song of the South is only objectionable by modern standards, merely that it is laughable by any standard to expect a Disney movie from the '40s (or even 2020, for that matter) to be anywhere close to an accurate and unobjectionable depiction of the tough realities of life.

Disney clearly could have done something different, even by the standards of the time. Would the result have been entirely unproblematic by modern standards? Almost certainly not. But it might have been passable enough for the current controversy not to be playing out.

 

[Incomudro]

Impossible standards. If we want every single thing to be strictly pure and innocent or set a requirement that it must be exactly related to something pure and innocent, no stains at all.. then we’re going to take everything down until nothing is left.

This is the cycle we are in.

 

[21stamps]

This is the cycle we are in.

I don’t understand it. Sometimes I think that we’ve turned ourselves inside out in lunacy. We go after statues, and monuments, and rides (and songs) from a movie that isn’t even shown, no racism in either the ride or songs... but then that same crowd is the Guilty Until Innocent crew, also destroying anything and anyone who has any accusation thrown their way.
We’ve watched it several times in the past year or two alone.. That crew isn’t just, or virtuous, or anything else that they think they are., they’re destroyers, dividers, and troublemakers with no thinking skills beyond follow-the-leader. Leader as in, trending outrage at the time. Everything is a surface level show.

At some point there has to be tough pushback against that.

 

[seabreezept813]

Agreed. And I do think it's important for these discussions to take place. I really think schools in the US do us a disservice in that they don't include viewing things from more than one point of view (outside of literary analysis in English classes), and that they don't include lessons focusing on communication - the ability to have a disagreement without resorting to insults and name-calling - and conflict resolution.

I think it’s hard too because schools in many ways are political. Teachers are afraid to teach critical thinking because the school committee might not support it. For instance, teaching Huck Finn. It’s a book with serious racially inappropriate depictions and yet it’s revolutionary for its time because Jim and Huck form a bond of being equals once they are on the river and away from society. It’s when they keep leaving the raft, that things become more complicated.
One thing that I have a hard time understanding is that if people want progress or to teach about progress why are we erasing moments or artifacts that show progress or lack thereof and hence can have a conversation that leads to okay how can we do better. Write something new, rather than rewrite. I think part of it is people don’t want to have hard conversations with multiple viewpoints.

 

[Matt_Black]

Absolutely this nation needs a mature, honest, and at times uncomfortable conversation about the ugliness of our history*. I also think it's unfair to demand that Disney lead that conversation if they don't really want to, and Disney as a company has usually shied away from doing that.

For instance, when Disney decided to do a Western in the 70s, they did The Apple Dumpling Gang, a straightforward, family friendly flick that took place in the Old West but didn't really say anything about that period. That movie comes after films like The Wild Bunch, High Plains Drifter, and Blazing Saddles, all of which used uncomfortable language and/ or imagery to try and provoke a discussion about what we think about the Western genre. And there's nothing wrong with either, as long as there's a balance.

 

[21stamps]

I think it’s hard too because schools in many ways are political. Teachers are afraid to teach critical thinking because the school committee might not support it. For instance, teaching Huck Finn. It’s a book with serious racially inappropriate depictions and yet it’s revolutionary for its time because Jim and Huck form a bond of being equals once they are on the river and away from society. It’s when they keep leaving the raft, that things become more complicated.
One thing that I have a hard time understanding is that if people want progress or to teach about progress why are we erasing moments or artifacts that show progress or lack thereof and hence can have a conversation that leads to okay how can we do better. Write something new, rather than rewrite. I think part of it is people don’t want to have hard conversations with multiple viewpoints.

Mark Twain and Harper Lee are the two most banned authors in the US. It blows my mind.
Instead of challenging our youth with critical thinking of a different time and place, we remove it.
The most nonsensical part is that both books contain stories that are in defiance of racism.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I think it’s hard too because schools in many ways are political. Teachers are afraid to teach critical thinking because the school committee might not support it. For instance, teaching Huck Finn. It’s a book with serious racially inappropriate depictions and yet it’s revolutionary for its time because Jim and Huck form a bond of being equals once they are on the river and away from society. It’s when they keep leaving the raft, that things become more complicated.
One thing that I have a hard time understanding is that if people want progress or to teach about progress why are we erasing moments or artifacts that show progress or lack thereof and hence can have a conversation that leads to okay how can we do better. Write something new, rather than rewrite. I think part of it is people don’t want to have hard conversations with multiple viewpoints.

Very well put - and I think you nailed it with your last paragraph.

 

[21stamps]

Absolutely this nation needs a mature, honest, and at times uncomfortable conversation about the ugliness of our history*. I also think it's unfair to demand that Disney lead that conversation if they don't really want to, and Disney as a company has usually shied away from doing that.

For instance, when Disney decided to do a Western in the 70s, they did The Apple Dumpling Gang, a straightforward, family friendly flick that took place in the Old West but didn't really say anything about that period. That movie comes after films like The Wild Bunch, High Plains Drifter, and Blazing Saddles, all of which used uncomfortable language and/ or imagery to try and provoke a discussion about what we think about the Western genre. And there's nothing wrong with either, as long as there's a balance.

Unless I’m confusing you with another poster (which I very well could be), your post today is in conflict with posts yesterday.. if we expect Disney to remove any remnant of Song if the South, then we need to demand that they remove everything.. because none of it is historically accurate.. it’s all glossed over with ‘magic’.

 

[SilentWindODoom]

So... a strange thought that came to me...

The Spaceship Earth redo was announced with a number of piece of art. Now likely thrown to the side. Mary Poppins? Men running in and dancing. Walt's magnum opus. Nobody thinks it's coming anymore.

At the moment it's believed that this will be taking place two years from now. The virus is spiking in Florida and tough times are ahead.

Is there a chance that when things blow over, which is entirely possible, could they push it back claiming there's not enough money and possibly just drop it all together? There are things up on Disney+ that were originally said to not be there. Projects have just... disappeared before. It's a tough financial time.

Could this project just... disappear?

I wish the insiders were still around, but I think they disappeared with the thread shift.

 

[Matt_Black]

Unless I’m confusing you with another poster (which I very well could be), your post today is in conflict with posts yesterday.. if we expect Disney to remove any remnant of Song if the South, then we need to demand that they remove everything.. because none of it is historically accurate.. it’s all glossed over with ‘magic’.

I have never called for removing anything*. I like Splash Mountain and will be sad to see it go, but I understand why, and I ultimately have no problem with Disney putting in something else.

*Well okay, the Treehouse and the Speedway. I HAVE called for those two to get the boot or get changed. The former is a snoozefest, and the latter is a stinky eyesore that's really no different than the dozens of imitators at every other amusement park.