Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[Animaniac93-98]

The lack of Song of the South's availability and its status as taboo are also distorting the criticisms of the ride. Many have never seen it and just assume the ride is the same, or shows the same things, when it does not.

If people actually watched the movie they'd understand why the ride is different and how much tamer it is.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Hall of Presidents will be replaced by Hamilton. Iger’s newest hard on

Sounds good to me.

 

[OrlandoRising]

It needed to happen. And no petition is going to make Disney change its mind.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Hall of Presidents will be replaced by Hamilton. Iger’s newest hard on

Twitter says Hamilton is bad too because it's about people who are now considered problematic being portrayed by PoC as a kind of awkward form of "multi-culturalism"

(Whether you agree with that is something else)

 

[No Name]

My 2 pennies is simple. If Disney won't even put Song of the South on Disney Plus or support it in any way, then it might be time for a retheming. It's hard to defend the ride with all the stuff from Song of the South when the company tossed the movie into the vault and threw away the key.

I love the ride and have a ton of merchandise from it, but my life wouldn't be ruined if it were changed. Ironically one of the ideas that keeps coming up is to retheme it with Zootopia characters.

I think this is the unfortunate consequence of the company and some of its fans seeing rides as extensions of or promoters of movie franchises or vise versa. Like I said in another thread, I feel like it’s a kid being judged for his/her aunt’s poor behavior. The two are related but the content is distinct. I’m all for eliminating systemic racism but I don’t find this to be an example of that.

I do think Princess and the Frog is a better choice than Zootopia, especially for its setting in the park, which portrays a legitimately concerning view of history rather than simply a tangential connection to a film, but I digress.

 

[RoysCabin]

I have a feeling that the Cultural Erasure being perpetrated now on a level nearly unprecedented in US history will foment a Counter-Erasure that will end up plunging society into ever deeper discord. Newton's Third Law. To erase, deny, or imply that aspects of American culture people can naturally self-associate with (including theme park log flumes with Academy Award-winning soundtracks) are defective or evil will lead some people to believe that they themselves are being considered defective or evil. People generally do not take too kindly to attacks on their identity.

Um...you do know about the amount of cultural erasure that was carried out on nonwhite populations across American history, right?

I'm talking things like schools that Natives were forced into to convert them from their traditional religions, cut their hair, and make them adopt European mannerisms, all as colonizers built over their land and erased signs of their presence and culture; enslaved Africans being sorted specifically so they could not easily bring their traditions with them after being abducted; Mexican people who lived in the American west suddenly having their legitimacy questioned because the US took the land they lived on from under them but had no plan to accommodate them; Chinese immigrants forced to only accept certain jobs by law, and being made to change their cultural hair and clothing or risk lynchings and race riots; the list goes on.

To call "a few statues designed for no other reason than to inspire racial terror" being taken down an "unprecedented level of erasure" first supposes that the Confederacy was a "culture", and also ignores pretty much the entirety of American history.

 

[Bairstow]

Nuance would also include understanding adaptation and censorship, both of which were used in the making of Splash Mountain.

...and personally I think they did an adequate job, but today's racial climate is different from the mid-80s, and there's a less objectionable and extremely viable IP ready to replace Song of the South now.

But yeah, there's about a thousand things I would use the money on at Disney World before I'd make this change.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ֊ᗩζᗩᗰ]

That doesn’t really matter though. Ask Fallon and Kimmel if things done early on in your career can come back and haunt you. Regardless of the path you’ve been on recently.

If some group decides to take old Mickey cartoons and make an issue with them - you better believe they will. Luckily that hasn’t happened. But it doesn’t mean it won’t.

All it takes is someone to ask "Did Disney whitewash Goofy?" or "Is Goofy based on a black stereotype?" and it could snowball from there... Scary stuff.

 

[Brer Oswald]

No, if it's irredeemably racist.
Nuance, man.

I think this is a good time to bring this up.

Song of the South, without refute, is an offensive film. HOWEVER, having watched the film, and based on what is known about the creation of the film, there was absolutely no intent to make a mockery of or insult black people. It’s racist, but it’s “casually racist” (Meaning racist without intent). That’s still bad. However, it creates a bit of a strange paradox.

You look at the Cannibals in the Mickey Cartoons. That’s racism with the intent to mock. The Natives in Peter Pan. You can be the judge on that, but I feel it lies closer to mockery than innocent racism. The Simese Cats From Lady and the Tramp. I think you get the point.

Why is it okay to celebrate these films, despite these intentional cultural appropriations? Why can’t we put a disclaimer on SotS, but we can on these films?

The reason? Well there’s two:
1) SotS had a major E Ticket it was based on. Hiding it protected Splash. Well, look how that turned out.

2) SotS, despite being casually racist, is casually racist and awkward through much of the films runtime. 6/130 Mickey cartoons are racist. A very small amount of Peter Pan is dedicated to the stereotypes. Etc.

Should this be the merit to judging what is and isn’t okay? Who am I to make that call? But it’s interesting to note.

 

[GoneForGood]

The idea that Splash Mountain -- arguably Disney's most beloved ride, alongside Haunted Mansion -- has to go down the toilet because it is based on Song of the South is absolutely absurd.

I'm a young black man. I am a progressive one at that and anyone who isn't actively dismissing and/or turning a blind eye to racism can clearly see that Song of the South very much is based upon it. However SPLASH MOUNTAIN is not. It's a ride at a theme park, and depicts no humans let alone racial relations between them! No references to the movie are made. Dumbo is based on animal cruelty, all the princesses and castles are based on (cruel) fuedalism, and the entirety of Frontierland is based on the (obviously cruel) genocide and extermination/removal of Native Americans. We gonna take these down too? Ridiculous.

Disney consistently makes their parks worse, or at least almost never makes them better. A decision like this represents all the problems of modern Disney and why I thinknI can spend my tourist dollars better at another destination.

Thank you for speaking up

 

[Brer Oswald]

I think I understand that my voice..even as a black person who feels strongly about this, doesn't matter. I am slowly accepting this fact, I have always felt....odd about sharing my interest in these characters and their history..their REAL history..it shouldn't end this way..But. We lost.

Make them feel bad about it. They can take away your ride, but they can’t take away your passion for the story.

 

[Figments Friend]

Regrettably, yes. Marty and now Tony have attacked fans, in Marty’s case, and provided cover for whatever changes the company wants to make.

Tony Baxter has 'attacked' fans.....?

When did this supposedly happen...?

Not trying to cause trouble, just generally curious as to the setting and circumstances.



-

 

[Da Bird is Da Word]

Honestly? I'd be fine with Mt. Rushmore going.

I don't see much of a slippery slope here: people are most loudly and adamantly against statues and commemorations that glorify what they see as negative or even evil historical events. Mt. Rushmore fits that bill pretty well, given that it was built upon violently stolen land and serves as what amounts to a middle finger to the massacred and robbed Sioux people. More here: https://apnews.com/50f6bdb9e2fd2349bb39b99c1250b093

Meanwhile, I don't see anyone asking for, let's say, historically preserved southern plantations to be torn down. Most would rather see them preserved, slave quarters and all, as a reminder of where this country came from, and the real forces that shaped it, including those that aren't always comfortable to confront. There's a pretty big distinction between that and a statue created years after an event with the purpose of "let's antagonize this particular group of traditionally marginalized people" in mind.

Violently stolen land? Seriously? All land is stolen land. You can’t point to a single country today that wasn’t at one point stolen from someone else. Life isn’t fair. There are winners and losers. You can conquer or be the conquered. Europeans had guns and battleships, Natives had bows and arrows and sharp sticks. They didn’t stand a chance. If Americans didn’t take the land and make their own country, someone else would have. Mt Rushmore is an awesome piece of art, a remarkable feat of human ingenuity, and a greatly historical landmark that pays homage to America’s founding fathers. Blowing it up would be a travesty. No offense, but someone saying they’re okay with blowing up Mt Rushmore doesn’t have a leg to stand on when they insist there is no slippery slope. That’s as slippery as the slope gets.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Twitter says Hamilton is bad too because it's about people who are now considered problematic being portrayed by PoC as a kind of awkward form of "multi-culturalism"

(Whether you agree with that is something else)

And they'll stream the hell out of it on July 3rd.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

...and personally I think they did an adequate job, but today's racial climate is different from the mid-80s, and there's a less objectionable and extremely viable IP ready to replace Song of the South now.

If Splash Down Photos gets replaced with Bibbidi Bayou Boutique, we'll know the real reason why it was changed.

 

[mickeyandkrunch]

They claim they have been working on this since last year......anybody heard of this last year

 

[Tony Perkis]

If Splash Down Photos gets replaced with Bibbidi Bayou Boutique, we'll know the real reason why it was changed.

Bibbidi Bayou Booty, to keep the Flash Mountain tradition alive.

 

[RoysCabin]

Violently stolen land? Seriously? All land is stolen land. You can’t point to a single country today that wasn’t at one point stolen from someone else. Life isn’t fair. There are winners and losers. You can conquer or be the conquered. Europeans had guns and battleships, Natives had bows and arrows and sharp sticks. They didn’t stand a chance. If Americans didn’t take the land and make their own country, someone else would have. Mt Rushmore is an awesome piece of art, a remarkable feat of human ingenuity, and a greatly historical landmark that pays homage to America’s founding fathers. Blowing it up would be a travesty. No offense, but someone saying they’re okay with blowing up Mt Rushmore doesn’t have a leg to stand on when they insist there is no slippery slope. That’s as slippery as the slope gets.

...You really haven't read American or world history, have you.

If that's really what you think the basis was (and, no, at times Natives had superior weaponry during the Indian wars; what they lacked was a defense against things like smallpox much of the time), then I don't know what to tell you other than "please read more books."

 

[Oskar]

I’m not going to stop going to WDW because Splash Mountain is being re-themed.

But if there are more changes to classic attractions that I love, coupled with the continual increases in prices to get to Florida from the UK, then there will come a point where going back just wouldn’t be worth it anymore.

I understand Disney’s perspective in this instance; I love Splash Mountain, I don’t agree with it being re-themed, but I can empathise with the position Disney finds itself in in this political and social climate. Looking at the bigger picture, their hand has been forced and the association with Song of the South has probably made this scenario inevitable.

If Disney decide to make alterations to scenes in attractions like Peter Pan’s Flight and Jungle Cruise, that would be understandable. If elements in certain attractions need to be brought into line with twenty-first century social standards and sensibilities, that’s perfectly understandable.

But I don’t want to continue losing classic attractions like we’re losing Splash Mountain. The controversy here means that a re-theme is unavoidable, but that’s not the case with other attractions with which there might be similar problems. In those cases, Disney can easily evolve rather than overhaul.

I can put my own sentimentality and love of Splash Mountain to one side in this debate and accept this decision, a little bit grudgingly from a selfish personal perspective. I don’t like this but I understand why it’s happening and can accept it. But I don’t want to continue losing classic attractions. The resort will change and evolve, as it should, but Disney can adapt problematic elements of their attractions to modern tastes while taking advantage of the abundance of space they have in the parks to add new experiences, not just replace existing ones.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

And they'll stream the hell out of it on July 3rd.

No doubt, but certainly many things can be viewed as problematic depending upon how you look at them.