Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyDebRob]

Skipping rows on boat rides and skipping vehicles on omnimovers is absolutely possible. Running attractions at severely reduced capacity is doable if park attendance is significantly reduced too. Some attractions can be open with altered operations. Those small holding areas in attractions like Mansion and Tower of Terror can be bypassed or utilized with significantly less guests.

I would pay 15 bucks a day for that experience.

 

[peter11435]

I would pay 15 bucks a day for that experience.

If attendance is low enough you might have a better experience and shorter/comparable wait times even with reduced capacity

 

[hopemax]

If that is the case you can kiss WDW, Sea World, Bush Gardens, Universal good by forever. No company can weather being closed for 12 months with zero income.

You forget the backstop of the federal government. Disney would never be allowed to close forever. It is an American symbol. The government would take an equity stake, and set them up with their own printing press in the short term. Sea World, on the other hand.

Let's imagine, for a moment, that this was not a war against an invisible virus, but an actual war. I know Americans aren't used to envisioning bombs and tanks in US Cities, but it's not a theoretical impossibility to imagine a scenario where a Blitz campaign was being run over Southern California, and ground fighting in Florida. In the event, of an actual ground war in the US, we would reasonably expect that all places of amusement in areas with active fighting would be closed indefinitely, and we know that wars last YEARS. We wouldn't be able to comfort ourselves with the idea that these places can't stay closed for a year for financial reasons, we would have to tell ourselves that they are simply going to be closed, and we're going to have to learn how to deal with it. If Disneyland Paris was around in 1940, it would not be open, and all the financial arguments of how they couldn't afford to stay closed would fall on deaf ears because of the situation on the ground.

The question becomes is actual war an analog for a pandemic? At least in terms of determining if it's safe for businesses to operate if effective social distancing is difficult.

Then there is the cost. I'm highly suspicious that there can be a set of standards that can both provide adequate safety for cast and guests, and be financially viable. Disney may be brainstorming possible solutions, but IMO, once they run their numbers it will be too expensive to operate, for the number of guests they will be able to serve (or maybe even attract). The fallback position would be to work in conjunction with local, state, and federal governments to ensure the business does not go under.

We are a country where Mickey Mouse affected copyright law. Mickey Mouse will get his own personal bailout.

 

[natatomic]

Sorry - this line of logic fails for every other reason you could be denied service somewhere. No one is responsible for what you did before or how you got there.

Sure, but if you can be asymptomatic for 2 weeks, what happens when you can get into the parks the first day of your trip but when you start having a fever on the second day, you’re no longer allowed in? Worse yet, you’re not allowed on a plane back home because of that fever? And you’re forced to extend your stay as part of a forced quarantine? (Sure, they can’t legally force you to stay in the hotel, but if the airlines won’t let you fly home, what else are you supposed to do?) If the person was showing no symptoms until halfway through their trip, you can’t say they’re at fault anymore than Disney is. Unless you’re trying to victim blame every single person who ever gets sick. I’ve never heard of punishing someone for being sick, but we are getting VERY close to making that a reality, and I definitely am not on board with that.

 

[Rimmit]

While it is possible that we acted just in time, my opinion is that it is unlikely. The volume of travel between China and the USA prior to the ban makes it highly unlikely that only one infected person came in on January 15th. If it is as contagious as reported and there are as many asymptomatic (and contagious) cases as speculated it makes no sense that a large scale outbreak didn't start until mid March. There had to be at least hundreds of infected people that traveled from China in early January.

In the realm of exponential growth it makes perfect sense that we caught many states right before a large scale outbreak and caught it after in some.

It goes back to the old riddle. There is a pond with 1 Lily pad. The number of lily pads double everyday. It takes 30 days for the pond to be 100 percent covered. How many days does it take to be half covered?

At a quick glance many will be quick to say 15 days, as that is the midway point. Since this is exponential growth, it was actually day 29. This is because on day 29 the pond was 50 percent covered and it doubles after one day thus completely covering the pond on day 30.

Since the virus did not hit all parts of the US simultaneously the country has been on different days since the beginning. Going back to the analogy, In the realm of this pandemic we managed to stop the virus in some states on day 28 or 29 right before the tipping point or 100 percent lily pad coverage. Sadly some states like NY and LA were on day or past day 30 by the time the US got serious about social distancing.

 

[flynnibus]

Sure, but if you can be asymptomatic for 2 weeks, what happens when you can get into the parks the first day of your trip but when you start having a fever on the second day, you’re no longer allowed in? Worse yet, you’re not allowed on a plane back home because of that fever? And you’re forced to extend your stay as part of a forced quarantine? (Sure, they can’t legally force you to stay in the hotel, but if the airlines won’t let you fly home, what else are you supposed to do?) If the person was showing no symptoms until halfway through their trip, you can’t say they’re at fault anymore than Disney is. Unless you’re trying to victim blame every single person who ever gets sick. I’ve never heard of punishing someone for being sick, but we are getting VERY close to making that a reality, and I definitely am not on board with that.

What happens when you have a heart attack in the parks... Disney isn't responsible for your hospital, airline tickets, or other expenses because you can't be in the parks anymore.

If you are denied entry to the parks for reasons outside of your own, Disney has a long history of being gracious with the guests on their sunk costs, like offering additional tickets or stays in the future. None of that maps to the stuff you threw out there like paying for airlines, time off work, sueing disney for being excluded, etc.

People have zero standing for restitution if they get denied services because they are a reasonable threat to other's safety. "access to Disney" is not some protected class...

 

[flynnibus]

You forget the backstop of the federal government. Disney would never be allowed to close forever. It is an American symbol. The government would take an equity stake, and set them up with their own printing press in the short term. Sea World, on the other hand.

Zero chance the federal government takes equity stake in a theme park... even Disney.

Florida on the other hand... has a huge vested interest in keeping Orlando humming.

 

[TheDisneyDaysOfOurLives]

What happens when you have a heart attack in the parks... Disney isn't responsible for your hospital, airline tickets, or other expenses because you can't be in the parks anymore.

If you are denied entry to the parks for reasons outside of your own, Disney has a long history of being gracious with the guests on their sunk costs, like offering additional tickets or stays in the future. None of that maps to the stuff you threw out there like paying for airlines, time off work, sueing disney for being excluded, etc.

People have zero standing for restitution if they get denied services because they are a reasonable threat to other's safety. "access to Disney" is not some protected class...

Having a heart attack during a trip and being denied entry due to a temperature (if that's the criteria) are not the same things though. There is no expectation for Disney to do anything (as someone who worked at Universal, handling these very things including going to hospitals to be with guests and tend to their needs, of which they definitely go above and beyond to take care of those affected in those times of needs) in regards to a heart attack and comes with the territory.

Being denied entry on day one of your trip to Disney because your temperature is at a certain marker is not the same thing.

 

[Lilofan]

What happens when you have a heart attack in the parks... Disney isn't responsible for your hospital, airline tickets, or other expenses because you can't be in the parks anymore.

If you are denied entry to the parks for reasons outside of your own, Disney has a long history of being gracious with the guests on their sunk costs, like offering additional tickets or stays in the future. None of that maps to the stuff you threw out there like paying for airlines, time off work, sueing disney for being excluded, etc.

People have zero standing for restitution if they get denied services because they are a reasonable threat to other's safety. "access to Disney" is not some protected class...

I knew someone who had a medical episode and was hospitalized while at WDW. The family I knew was accompanied by a Disney cast member throughout the ordeal shuttling them around where they needed to go. That was nice of Disney.

 

[flynnibus]

Having a heart attack during a trip and being denied entry due to a temperature (if that's the criteria) are not the same things though. There is no expectation for Disney to do anything (as someone who worked at Universal, handling these very things including going to hospitals to be with guests and tend to their needs, of which they definitely go above and beyond to take care of those affected in those times of needs) in regards to a heart attack and comes with the territory.

Being denied entry on day one of your trip to Disney because your temperature is at a certain marker is not the same thing.

They don't have to be equals for my point to stand. It doesn't really matter why you were denied, under what existing convention have you seen Disney (or another operator) liable for your vacation time or 3rd party travel expenses because you weren't able to use your park ticket?

 

[Tom P.]

Zero chance the federal government takes equity stake in a theme park... even Disney.

Florida on the other hand... has a huge vested interest in keeping Orlando humming.

Florida does not have the essentially unlimited borrowing capacity of the federal government, nor the ability to print its own money. If Florida got involved in this way, there would have to be some sort of federal funding backing it up, even if that funding wasn't specifically earmarked (see what I did there?) for Disney.

 

[hopemax]

Zero chance the federal government takes equity stake in a theme park... even Disney.

Florida on the other hand... has a huge vested interest in keeping Orlando humming.

I agree about the unlikeliness. Actual equity stakes will be reserved for the airlines. But there are more options than 1. WDW reopening in the next 3-6 months and 2. WDW going under. The point is there are other solutions, and other interests vested in the long term viability of Disney. Disney is not going under, but that does not mean WDW is going to open sooner rather than later. The financial can be dealt with in other ways.

 

[flynnibus]

Florida does not have the essentially unlimited borrowing capacity of the federal government, nor the ability to print its own money. If Florida got involved in this way, there would have to be some sort of federal funding backing it up, even if that funding wasn't specifically earmarked (see what I did there?) for Disney.

You are correct the states don't have the ability to just print their own money. But they do have bonds. And even in your 'fed funded program' model - that is not the same as the Fed stepping in and taking an equity stake in a business (as was the postulate).

Florida is going to do everything possible to keep UNI and WDW intact the best they can. They know it's the economic engine for central florida. They have all kinds of tax relief and other things they can do to reduce Disney's costs which will free up money or incentivize operation. Plus, they can back loans, etc.

All very different from the idea of the Federal Government stepping in and buying out the company to run it.

 

[UNCgolf]

Disney almost certainly reserves the right to refuse entry to anyone for any reason as part of the terms and conditions of having a ticket. I haven't specifically checked to see if that's the case, but I'd be absolutely shocked if they don't.

It's a private business. As long as they aren't discriminating against a legally protected class across the board, then they have absolutely no obligation to let you into the parks. Someone could try to sue them, but they'd be almost guaranteed to lose.

 

[NedLand]

Horizons predicted social distancing.

 

[natatomic]

They don't have to be equals for my point to stand. It doesn't really matter why you were denied, under what existing convention have you seen Disney (or another operator) liable for your vacation time or 3rd party travel expenses because you weren't able to use your park ticket?

And again, what happens when that family proves they weren’t positive for Covid-19? That they just had a sunburn, or their baby was teething, or they just run hot naturally, or they just had a random fever not really related to anything serious? You honestly think they’re just gonna suck up the loss and accept that Disney denied them for no valid reason? You honestly think Morgan & Morgan wouldn’t have a field day with all these people wrongfully turned away?

how many people have heart attacks on Disney property a day? Yes, it happens, but it’s probably one a day or less. (Btw, they go above and beyond for families of those who have heart attacks on property - I’ve seen it, first-hand.) How many people have temperatures over 98.6? I guarantee you it’s going to be far more than 1 a day. It’s going to be dozens, easily. It’s NOT going to look good for a company turning away multiple families a day for something that might actually be nothing. I’m local, so I don’t care. I’d go home and try again another day. But if I saved up and came down from another state with my family, you better believe I would put up a giant stink if my family was denied entry midway through the trip. And I’m usually a calm, laidback person who doesn’t make a stink about ANYTHING. And Disney provides ridiculous guest recovery for FAR less hassles. Their guest recovery would in no way be able to keep up with the families they’d turn away daily. Unless they want to change their mission statement from “we create happiness,“ to “we create happiness, but only at 98.6°.“

 

[DCBaker]

"The Four Seasons Resort in Orlando has laid off 835 people as Central Florida hotels continue to absorb heavy coronavirus-related losses."

"The notification went on to list positions affected, including housekeepers, restaurant and banquet servers, cooks, hairstylists, pastry chefs, a golf pro and others. It also said the resort would be closed for the foreseeable future."

Four Seasons Resort in Orlando’s 835 coronavirus furlough is largest in Florida, state records show

The Four Seasons Resort in Orlando has furloughed 835 people as Central Florida hotels continue to absorb heavy coronavirus-related losses. The move becomes the largest single action in Florida sin…

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[GoofGoof]

"Ideas being floated..." Are not the same this as "plans." Would this be the same people who encouraged gatherings of large crowds the last weekend they were open?

So, what are they going to do? Are they going to only let in 500 guests and have Virtual Queuing for Dole Whip?

(I'll use 'guest' to mean an individual or a family or a traveling unit, such as two friends.)

Can the restaurants make the profit they're supposed to with such a reduced seating?

No enclosed spaces? So, no HM, Enchanted Tales, any theater shows (which all have small holding pen lobbies).

How do you even have a queue in any attraction while maintaining the distance? And what do you do when the guest behind you moves into your space and you have no where to go except to invade the space of the person in front of you?

So each guest get their own boat in PotC or IaSW because of distancing?

And even for the omnimovers, if the guests were 6 feet apart, they couldn't arrive fast enough to fill all the vehicles.

Such distancing would put filling rides at 25% of their capacity. Watch Peter Pan be a constant 3 hour wait with the line stretching all the way to BTMR.

Whoever in Disney was floating around how to do social distancing while being open was not, shall we say, in a right frame of mind.

I agree that full social distancing (as it exists today) isn’t possible. There’s no way everyone can always stay 6 feet apart at WDW. It can’t happen at the grocery store either but that’s another debate. I do think there will be some other modified experiences other than just hand sanitizer stations or even a temperature scan. They could ask guests to space out in queues and add outdoor temporary queues to rides that currently don’t have them. They would need shade and/or fans but it’s possible. The biggest challenges are transport and shows. If large group gatherings aren‘t happening anywhere else (concerts, sports, etc) then Disney won’t have fireworks or large shows like Fantasmic. This won’t last forever. I think it may be psychological as much as actual safety so if there isn’t a major 2nd wave of the virus and pro sports start ramping up in the fall it’s possible Disney would bring back some of the stuff they have on hold. I don’t see the modified experience existing unchanged for 18 months.

 

[lilypgirl]

So my question is if the heat does in fact kill the virus and makes it unable to move why would any of these measures even be needed in the extremely hot months of June, July, August and Sept.?

 

[GoofGoof]

So my question is if the heat does in fact kill the virus and makes it unable to move why would any of these measures even be needed in the extremely hot months of June, July, August and Sept.?

It’s not helping New Orleans right now, but I guess if those people were infected weeks ago it wasn’t as hot then. It would be great if the heat really helped, but we don’t have the science to back that up yet.