Long live the Eastern Gateway or how I learned to love the Anaheim City Council after the election.

[Ismael Flores]

If you look at current main Pedestrian areas, I can think of three, Downtown Disney, Anaheim GardenWalk and the Convention Center Grand Plaza (Area between the Marriott and Hilton. The Eastern Gateway expands the path to Disney Way. That and a City Bridge now connects AGW to a pathway from the DL Hotel to the Cheesecake without crossing a roadway. The other city bridge would connect the Grand Plaza, and also other CC pathways, along with the new Westin Pathway that is away from the Katella sidewalk.

The future for pedestrians in the Resort area is not sidewalks, but in pathways built between buildings and similar things. Long Beach has done similar things in its tourism area. Traffic Calming was shut down big time as studies showed it would make matters worse, not better.

whatever they do they really need to get pedestrians off the crosswalks. The hords of guests trying to cross Katella as they head south from the resort is terrible and causes traffic to come to a stop. They really need to considering lowering the corner intersection somehow.

I think the most ideal thing would be to lower the whole intersection and let Katella and Hrabor corner run below ground in that major intersection. Then create a to level pedestrain plaza right in the middle. I have seen this done in major cities around the globe and the traffic flow of cars and Pedestrians increase dramatically.

something like this

Red area stays at ground level and the two major roads dip down below ground . This area can then be used as a centerpoint for the resort area with greenery and place for people to relax after a convention or day at park. They can even make a deal with starbucks for a coffee area. It sure would be better than any ugly Vegas style bridges that will require to be ADA compatible and have stairs. Most people with wheelchairs will just decide to not use it if they have to wait for some kind of single elevator

 

[Ismael Flores]

Will Disney still build it’s Eastern Gateway bridge if the city builds the Disney Way bridge over Harbor? The walk will be longer. Will the Disney Way bridge be on the north? Then they need another bridge to cross Disney Way to get to GardenWalk. Or build it closer to the stair entrance next to the parking structure.

I would think those are two separate projects. Disney's bridge is to help maintain the security feature that would be added in the eastern gateway. The city bridge is just to remove pedestrians from crossing the street and creating a traffic issue and to reduce safety issues. I am also thinking that the city built bridge will also push foot traffic through the mall which is badly needed.

 

[truecoat]

whatever they do they really need to get pedestrians off the crosswalks. The hords of guests trying to cross Katella as they head south from the resort is terrible and causes traffic to come to a stop. They really need to considering lowering the corner intersection somehow.

I think the most ideal thing would be to lower the whole intersection and let Katella and Hrabor corner run below ground in that major intersection. Then create a to level pedestrain plaza right in the middle. I have seen this done in major cities around the globe and the traffic flow of cars and Pedestrians increase dramatically.

something like this

Red area stays at ground level and the two major roads dip down below ground . This area can then be used as a centerpoint for the resort area with greenery and place for people to relax after a convention or day at park. They can even make a deal with starbucks for a coffee area. It sure would be better than any ugly Vegas style bridges that will require to be ADA compatible and have stairs. Most people with wheelchairs will just decide to not use it if they have to wait for some kind of single elevator

View attachment 369982

Moving the utilities alone would make this project way to costly.

 

[truecoat]

The other bridge (not Disney) @Darkbeer1 is talking about would be located here.

 

[NobodyElse]

Moving the utilities alone would make this project way to costly.

Yeah, not to mention the thought of shutting down Harbor and Katella for a substantial length of time.

 

[NobodyElse]

whatever they do they really need to get pedestrians off the crosswalks. The hords of guests trying to cross Katella as they head south from the resort is terrible and causes traffic to come to a stop. They really need to considering lowering the corner intersection somehow.

I think the most ideal thing would be to lower the whole intersection and let Katella and Hrabor corner run below ground in that major intersection. Then create a to level pedestrain plaza right in the middle. I have seen this done in major cities around the globe and the traffic flow of cars and Pedestrians increase dramatically.

something like this

Red area stays at ground level and the two major roads dip down below ground . This area can then be used as a centerpoint for the resort area with greenery and place for people to relax after a convention or day at park. They can even make a deal with starbucks for a coffee area. It sure would be better than any ugly Vegas style bridges that will require to be ADA compatible and have stairs. Most people with wheelchairs will just decide to not use it if they have to wait for some kind of single elevator

View attachment 369982

As I believe I mentioned in the old thread, I'm a fan of this type of over-crossing. (I ran across this one near Stavanger Norway a couple of years ago.)

The advantage I feel this design has over the Las Vegas Strip solutions is that once you are up, you can get to any part of the intersection without first going back down to street level. I would love to see a variation of something like this to eliminate the crosswalks at Harbor & Katella.

(Or really beef up the structure to include a centralized raised platform for the gondola station connecting to the ARTIC area. )

 

[NobodyElse]

The other bridge (not Disney) @Darkbeer1 is talking about would be located here.

View attachment 370018

I would think that Gardenwalk, would want to encourage something like this:

It seems like the plans for most of the surrounding hotels (and the timeshares) include direct access to their second level. Wouldn't it be prudent to kick in some funds to have the bridge connect straight into their property, encouraging all that foot traffic?

 

[socalifornian]

I would think that Gardenwalk, would want to encourage something like this:
View attachment 370045

It seems like the plans for most of the surrounding hotels (and the timeshares) include direct access to their second level. Wouldn't it be prudent to kick in some funds to have the bridge connect straight into their property, encouraging all that foot traffic?

I would also see it as potential ‘accidental’ future proofing for Disney if Toy Story ever becomes gate 3. AGW would be a gateway from parking

 

[Darkbeer1]

As for decisions of where exactly the bridge end points fall in regard to the city built bridges depends on where the funding comes from. Of course, the Convention Center will be favored since the city owns/operates it. IF AGW throws in money, or a Hotel, etc., then yes, it could be connected.

But if it is just tax dollars, the key drivers will be safety and not favoring a certain private business. So in regards to the Disney Way bridge, ending on public property close, but not exclusive to the Eastern Gateway Entrance is the safest option, and removes the most folks from the sidewalks. As for the south end, inbetween the AGW and Anaheim Hotel is a good option, heck, maybe a T ending, one headed west towards Harbor, the other towards Clementine. But no firm drawings have been made. Finding out how much money is available makes the decision of how many bridges you can have, and how elaborate they can be. Plus things like adding escalators/elevators, or if you go non-mechanical and only stairs/ramps. You also have to look at the mix of visitors, with a higher mix of families with strollers, requiring larger ramps

 

[Darkbeer1]

As I believe I mentioned in the old thread, I'm a fan of this type of over-crossing. (I ran across this one near Stavanger Norway a couple of years ago.)
View attachment 370037

The advantage I feel this design has over the Las Vegas Strip solutions is that once you are up, you can get to any part of the intersection without first going back down to street level. I would love to see a variation of something like this to eliminate the crosswalks at Harbor & Katella.

(Or really beef up the structure to include a centralized raised platform for the gondola station connecting to the ARTIC area. )

WOW, never thought about something like that. Theme it to the Anaheim Angels "Halo" and heck, sell it to the council that way (Paint it Red). But I can see that work.

But how much more would it costs compared to a Square version. I have seen that before. I think Vegas has some intersections with that choice.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Build a whole elevated promenade/garden going from DL to convention center to stadium to various parking garages/lots. People can get on and off at various points to visit the merchants below.

cf. NYC Highline

 

[Disney Irish]

WOW, never thought about something like that. Theme it to the Anaheim Angels "Halo" and heck, sell it to the council that way (Paint it Red). But I can see that work.

But how much more would it costs compared to a Square version. I have seen that before. I think Vegas has some intersections with that choice.

Take the idea and bring it up in the steering committee, I'm sure @NobodyElse wouldn't mind you submitting it as a proposal (with your minor aesthetic changes)

 

[Darkbeer1]

Build a whole elevated promenade/garden going from DL to convention center to stadium to various parking garages/lots. People can get on and off at various points to visit the merchants below.

cf. NYC Highline

The distance between the Honda Center/ARTIC to the Convention Center/South side of the DLR is about 2.5 miles along Katella Avenue. and the I-5 Freeway, which is already elevated over Katella in the way. The costs of doing something like that is WAY out of a city's budget, and even with grant money, not possible in whole. You MIGHT get a few small segments.

I think the Honda Center-ARTIC Pedestrian Bridge over Katella is as close as you will get.

Honda Center | Conceptual Design | KTGY Architects

Found on Bing from ktgy.com

binged.it

This bridge will be 100% funded by the owners of the Anaheim Ducks (no city money).

 

[MisterPenguin]

The distance between the Honda Center/ARTIC to the Convention Center/South side of the DLR is about 2.5 miles along Katella Avenue. and the I-5 Freeway, which is already elevated over Katella in the way. The costs of doing something like that is WAY out of a city's budget, and even with grant money, not possible in whole. You MIGHT get a few small segments.

I think the Honda Center-ARTIC Bridge is as close as you can get.

Honda Center | Conceptual Design | KTGY Architects

Found on Bing from ktgy.com

binged.it

You know what could connect the elevated islands?

Gondolas!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Pedestrian bridges conceived of as an obstacle to pedestrians are going to be a very expensive means to little benefit. Where they work well and find use, like the Highline, is typically in places where they add to an already active pedestrian realm at the ground level not where they try to forcible move it out of the way. People are going to take the path of least resistance, which means just crossing at grade. Creating the additional barriers needed to force people onto the bridges means intentionally creating a seedy environment.

 

[britain]

The costs of doing something like that is WAY out of a city's budget, and even with grant money, not possible in whole.

Is there anything the city might be willing to sell to Disney in exchange for money that could go toward reinventing the transit in the area?

 

[Darkbeer1]

Pedestrian bridges conceived of as an obstacle to pedestrians are going to be a very expensive means to little benefit. Where they work well and find use, like the Highline, is typically in places where they add to an already active pedestrian realm at the ground level not where they try to forcible move it out of the way. People are going to take the path of least resistance, which means just crossing at grade. Creating the additional barriers needed to force people onto the bridges means intentionally creating a seedy environment.

What you might call seedy, I call safer.

Placing a solid barricade down the middle of Harbor, disguised by Bushes... Parts of it are already there to prevent people from crossing the street. Adding K-Rail berms (4 feet high or so) next to the Sidewalk, not so much yet, But the new Magic Way Bridge will have that in parts. Las Vegas has done that at corners with very positive effects.

Since we are retrofitting, you need to have ramps to move people up to the bridge level, but still allow access to shops at street level.

The Las Vegas version have been given design awards and met with success on many levels

Las Vegas Pedestrian Bridges - 1996 Awards - Excellence in Highway Design - Geometric Design - Design - Federal Highway Administration

www.fhwa.dot.gov

Tropicana/Las Vegas Boulevard Pedestrian Bridges | Nevada Department of Transportation

www.nevadadot.com

 

[NobodyElse]

WOW, never thought about something like that. Theme it to the Anaheim Angels "Halo" and heck, sell it to the council that way (Paint it Red). But I can see that work.

But how much more would it costs compared to a Square version. I have seen that before. I think Vegas has some intersections with that choice.

Probably not a big deal to switch from circular to square design, but the circle seems more aesthetically pleasing. The Hovenring in Netherlands even utilizes a center pole/suspension scheme that seems especially elegant.

Again, my issue with the LV Strip bridges is that for the most part, unless you get into or onto casino/hotel/mall/etc property, if you want to go from one corner to the opposite diagonal corner, you need to go up, cross a bridge, go down, then go up, cross the other bridge and go back down to street level again. It's not the end of the world, and undoubtedly designed that way on purpose, but I much prefer the contiguous elevated circuit myself.

LV Example 1:

LV Example 2:

 

[NobodyElse]

The Las Vegas version have been given design awards and met with success on many levels

Las Vegas Pedestrian Bridges - 1996 Awards - Excellence in Highway Design - Geometric Design - Design - Federal Highway Administration

www.fhwa.dot.gov

Tropicana/Las Vegas Boulevard Pedestrian Bridges | Nevada Department of Transportation

These projects did what they set out to do - separating pedestrians interacting with vehicles to a large extent. I just think it can be done a little better.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What you might call seedy, I call safer.

Placing a solid barricade down the middle of Harbor, disguised by Bushes... Parts of it are already there to prevent people from crossing the street. Adding K-Rail berms (4 feet high or so) next to the Sidewalk, not so much yet, But the new Magic Way Bridge will have that in parts. Las Vegas has done that at corners with very positive effects.

Since we are retrofitting, you need to have ramps to move people up to the bridge level, but still allow access to shops at street level.

The Las Vegas version have been given design awards and met with success on many levels

Las Vegas Pedestrian Bridges - 1996 Awards - Excellence in Highway Design - Geometric Design - Design - Federal Highway Administration

www.fhwa.dot.gov

Tropicana/Las Vegas Boulevard Pedestrian Bridges | Nevada Department of Transportation

www.nevadadot.com

Your tune would change as soon as someone set up camp in one of the empty spaces.

Getting physical barriers close enough to intersections to prevent people from using them means encroaching on visibility triangles, so not exactly safe.

While Venturi and Brown encouraged us to learn from Las Vegas, it has never been considered a very good urban environment. The first award you list is even for highway design, not urban design.