Pandoran problems 4.25.18

[MisterPenguin]

No one has to go “on the record” - this isn’t a newspaper. And you know why people with inside information are often unable to be “definite.”

Given what we have seen this week, the history of the attraction, and what our insiders have indicated, it is highly likely that FoP suffers from recurrent technical issues. That’s not an outrageous statement. This is a park with an inanimate yeti, after all.

For a forum that can tell us the last time the teal monorail was painted and the last time turkey legs were sold in DHS and whether both Dumbos were running yesterday, I find it very difficult to believe that someone with an anonymizing forum handle can't step up and say something about how often a FoP goes down on a regular basis from their own first hand experience, or since they work at DAK, what they heard from someone who's at FoP.

The last rumor was one theater permanently down. No confirmers. This current rumor is that theaters go down a lot. How often is "a lot"? One theater down for an hour a day? Three theaters each down for five hours?

The problem with letting "it has technical difficulties" slide as a rumor is that you can be sure some people are going to think the worse and then start saying that it's a fact that multiple theaters are down "all the time" because "that's what they say" and "everyone knows that."

 

[Rteetz]

I presume the early closing is to stop the standby line so that the ride still isn't running two hours after the usual closing time. Don't know how that will affect FPs.

It probably affected them like any attraction downtime. You get an alert/email and an anytime FP instead.

 

[Casper Gutman]

For a forum that can tell us the last time the teal monorail was painted and the last time turkey legs were sold in DHS and whether both Dumbos were running yesterday, I find it very difficult to believe that someone with an anonymizing forum handle can't step up and say something about how often a FoP goes down on a regular basis from their own first hand experience, or since they work at DAK, what they heard from someone who's at FoP.

The last rumor was one theater permanently down. No confirmers. This current rumor is that theaters go down a lot. How often is "a lot"? One theater down for an hour a day? Three theaters each down for five hours?

The problem with letting "it has technical difficulties" slide as a rumor is that you can be sure some people are going to think the worse and then start saying that it's a fact that multiple theaters are down "all the time" because "that's what they say" and "everyone knows that."

And why is it a problem that some people think the worse? It effects nothing.

And you really don’t understand why a current WDW employee won’t come on here and say “oh yeah, Disney’s marquee attraction is a mess, and here are specific details about its operation that should let Disney narrow down who is posting this information?”

You could explain why you think the insinuations of regular problems, coming from reliable insiders, are to be doubted beyond the fact that no one will risk their job or the job of a friend by giving an affidavit on the issue. Why is it unlikely that a new, somewhat technologically innovative ride that has a major problem now and has had a similar problem in the past, a ride in a resort with well known unaddressed maintenance and repair issues, might have fairly regular problems?

 

[mikejs78]

And the FP+ has certainly made the wait times for those that are in line much longer.

This is a myth again. Suppose a ride can take 2000 people per hour and 1000 of those are FP and the other 1000 are standby, and the standby line is 30 min. Now suppose FP no longer exists. The ride can still take 2000 people per hour, but now those people who had FPs have to wait in standby. Lines stay about the same. FP tends to redistribute people, but I haven't seen compelling evidence that shows that it increases standby times. Queue theory says otherwise.

 

[Casper Gutman]

This is a myth again. Suppose a ride can take 2000 people per hour and 1000 of those are FP and the other 1000 are standby, and the standby line is 30 min. Now suppose FP no longer exists. The ride can still take 2000 people per hour, but now those people who had FPs have to wait in standby. Lines stay about the same. FP tends to redistribute people, but I haven't seen compelling evidence that shows that it increases standby times. Queue theory says otherwise.

Those 1000 people with FP are likely in a standby line elsewhere. They are thus making multiple lines longer. Instead of standing in one physical line, they are occupying space in one physical and multiple virtual lines. Of course this increases waits across the park.

 

[mikejs78]

Those 1000 people with FP are likely in a standby line elsewhere. They are making multiple lines longer. Instead of standing in one physical line, they are occupying space in one physical and multiple virtual lines. Of course this increases waits across the park.

Rides have the same capacity. The same number of people are in the park. The "virtual space" thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What it does is redistributes the waits. Makes some lines longer in the park and others shorter. But the park is going to have the same capacity, throughput, and crowd levels with or without FastPass, so total wait time across all rides will be constant.

 

[ford91exploder]

And why is it a problem that some people think the worse? It effects nothing.

And you really don’t understand why a current WDW employee won’t come on here and say “oh yeah, Disney’s marquee attraction is a mess, and here are specific details about its operation that should let Disney narrow down who is posting this information?”

You could explain why you think the insinuations of regular problems, coming from reliable insiders, are to be doubted beyond the fact that no one will risk their job or the job of a friend by giving an affidavit on the issue. Why is it unlikely that a new, somewhat technologically innovative ride that has a major problem now and has had a similar problem in the past, a ride in a resort with well known unaddressed maintenance and repair issues, might have fairly regular problems?

Or the third theater is being scavenged for spare parts especially if the ride is wearing faster than expected and WDW is out of ‘new’ spares

 

[Casper Gutman]

Rides have the same capacity. The same number of people are in the park. The "virtual space" thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What it does is redistributes the waits. Makes some lines longer in the park and others shorter. But the park is going to have the same capacity, throughput, and crowd levels with or without FastPass, so total wait time across all rides will be constant.

it absolutely effects how long individuals wait. Look at your own example. Where do you think those 1000 people with FPs are? Many of them are in other standby lines. Without FP, if you are 1000th in line, you are 1000th to ride. With FP, in your scenario, you are 2000th to ride, and 1000 of the people boarding before you have also been making another line longer.

 

[WDWTrojan]

I guess it's that culture of 'compensation' I don't understand. I know I'm in the minority here but beyond the 'use it anywhere FastPass' they typical present to guests as they are heading out of any attraction after an evacuation I don't expect anything else. I was at Disneyland Paris last summer and Big Thunder (the best version of this attraction ever built) was going down for 4-6 hours, every single day. I never once felt the need to go to Guest Relations to demand some sort of compensation. I certainly would never expect to have my admission refunded because they had some sort of mechanical issue that took an attraction down. But, that's just me.

I worked in Guest Relations very early in my career. Obviously you have people who look for any excuse for compensation. The answer is usually an extra Fastpass. However, this is not the case of Dumbo going down for an hour - two tentpole attractions, that were likely the deciding factor for people visiting that park instead of another, were down for an entire day. People probably weighed using their one day/one park ticket at DAK vs. another park, solely choosing the former for Pandora.

Guests Relations cast would almost certainly be inclined to offer guests to return another day to experience the attraction, especially if they have a multi-day ticket. For example, get them into Epcot for the day thereby saving another use on their ticket so they can get to DAK another time.

 

[Gringrinngghost]

I have heard through the buddies of mine that the closure is related to a fire that occurred on NRJ. If it were an issue with the fire suppression system the whole building would be closed until deemed safe by the fire marshall. In the event of a fire, the Fire Marshall would be able to deem the building safe and FOP would still be able to operate.

 

[marni1971]

Possibly it was a dream unless someone says something specific and definite.

No one wanted to go on record about the rumor that one of the theaters was permanently down this past February...

It wasn’t a dream.

 

[AEfx]

Also, Disney isn't forcing anyone to plan your vacation. If you choose to, then that's on you. The parks are open daily and you can wait in stand by. Every other theme park in world operates like this. Disney gives you options.

This has got to be the most stunningly tone-deaf thing I have read on these forums in possibly years.

*NO* other theme park operates like this, so your logic is flawed from the start.

You might have had slightly more of a point before FP+, but this just more evidence of the utter absurdity of FP+ to begin with (scheduling FP weeks and months in advance). There are just too many variables, and when Disney has conditioned its guests to use the service they are paying for, and penalizing you left and right when you don't, saying it is all "optional just like any old theme park, ignore it" can only come from someone who can visit at leisure. Most folks cannot, and Disney is hell-bent on making you plan what park you do on what day ridiculously in advance.

Is it absurd for guests to expect Disney keep rides open every open hour every day of the year? Yes. Just as absurd as it is for DIsney to expect people to make FP+ reservations and schedule a ride to an hour window months in advance.

 

[Disney Analyst]

It wasn’t a dream.

I had just spoken to my friend a couple weeks ago who works FoP and actually asked how the theatres had been (as I had always heard rumours of issues on here)... he said they’ve been working consistently and rarely aren’t running all 4....

 

[nitstalker]

Ok so back in the day when I only came to the world on vacation, I would probably just rearrange my plans if a ride or land went down. Now with that being said, if I had waited in line for 2+ hours, I would probably try to get a couple freebie fastpasses.

I did the guest relations trip once - it was just being in the wrong places at the wrong time. Was stuck on breakdowns/e-stops the same day on carousel of Progress, Pirates, and Haunted Mansion. Guest Relations verified the info and gave us a bunch of fastpasses for our trouble and time. Was more than pleased...

On a second note: I do find it extremely odd that both on here and DisTwitter there is not a peep about what is going on in Pandora. I mean if someone farts on a ride there are 100 posts about it. One of the top attractions goes down for days and we have a complete blackout. No rumors, nothing...

 

[The Empress Lilly]

All this would be of little consequence if we hadn't emerged from two decades of underinvestment.

In the entire world, there are only two 10million+ theme parks that now run with just four rides. DHS and DAK. Madness.

 

[peter11435]

All this would be of little consequence if we hadn't emerged from two decades of underinvestment.

In the entire world, there are only two 10million+ theme parks that now run with just four rides. DHS and DAK. Madness.

I’m not sure how you get four for DAK. By my count the park is home to 9 rides. That’s to say nothing of the non ride based shows and attractions.

 

[Winter]

All this would be of little consequence if we hadn't emerged from two decades of underinvestment.

In the entire world, there are only two 10million+ theme parks that now run with just four rides. DHS and DAK. Madness.

...
Even without Pandora, it has 7 rides.

 

[mikejs78]

it absolutely effects how long individuals wait. Look at your own example. Where do you think those 1000 people with FPs are? Many of them are in other standby lines. Without FP, if you are 1000th in line, you are 1000th to ride. With FP, in your scenario, you are 2000th to ride, and 1000 of the people boarding before you have also been making another line longer.

If I have a FastPass for Space Mountain, then I'm not part of that 1000 standby line, but am going on other attractions that don't have a long wait - say, PeooleMover, Little Mermaid, Philharmagic, IasW....

If FastPass doesn't exist, I get in standby for Space Mountain instead of going on those other attractions. So the standby line is now longer than it was before. So when you get in line, you're no longer the 1000th person in standby (unless you get there at park opening), you're likely much higher than that, because most people would do similar. And since FP+ spreads the crowds for a headliner throughout the day, it keeps the line from spiking further. Since Disney knows that 1000 people will be able to do FastPass from 2-3 and another from 3-4, it evenly distributes them throughout the day. But if they're not distributed, people are more likely to line up for the headliners earlier, making the lines back up more. Instead of the 1000 people who have a FP from 1-2, another from 2-3 and another from 3-4, lets say 70% of that 3000 that would have had FP lines up between 1 and 2 (peak time).... So now your line by 2 is around 50% longer.

Conversely, rides that had shorter waits (less in demand rides) would have shorter lines generally because people are all tied up in the Space Mountain line, and many are probably walk ons, so the park wouldn't be using it's capacity effectively. Lines for headliners and D attractions would swell (get longer) and B/C ticket attractions could end up being underutilized.

 

[larryz]

This is a myth again. Suppose a ride can take 2000 people per hour and 1000 of those are FP and the other 1000 are standby, and the standby line is 30 min. Now suppose FP no longer exists. The ride can still take 2000 people per hour, but now those people who had FPs have to wait in standby. Lines stay about the same. FP tends to redistribute people, but I haven't seen compelling evidence that shows that it increases standby times. Queue theory says otherwise.

 

[drizgirl]

This is a myth again. Suppose a ride can take 2000 people per hour and 1000 of those are FP and the other 1000 are standby, and the standby line is 30 min. Now suppose FP no longer exists. The ride can still take 2000 people per hour, but now those people who had FPs have to wait in standby. Lines stay about the same. FP tends to redistribute people, but I haven't seen compelling evidence that shows that it increases standby times. Queue theory says otherwise.

That assumes that it's a zero sum game. It isn't. The presence of FP+ changes behavior. People who would normally skip the ride if standby is the only option decide to ride when they have FP. People who prefer to sleep in would skip the ride if getting a FP means you have to get up and get to the park early to get one. There are plenty of rides I only do if I have a FP.