A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[FigmentJedi]

If you were to take away any knowledge you had of Star Wars and had never seen any of the 6 movies before seeing TFA and TLJ, would Snoke not be "self-explanatory" ?

The entire Sequel Trilogy is built on knowing the previous films for any of its emotional beats and big story moments to work or at least try to work.

 

[Progress.City]

So if JJ Abrams or Johnson tweeted today that there was indeed a backstory written for Snoke would you have a different opinion of the movie?

Yes, but we know that is not the case, unfortunately, as it was already disclosed that they are creating it as it goes with no plan in place.

 

[Witchy Chick]

You’re wrong. So much backstory went into Palpatine BEFORE the original trilogy was written. As I said before, you can find much of that backstory in the preface of the Star Wars novelization. It doesn’t have to be told onscreen. Writers write backstories as a tool and guideline to help them write about the characters current motivations. The fact is none of this sort was written about Snoke - on or offscreen. But the detailed history of Palpatine was written before the movies.

About Zahn and Lucas, they had a plan on where the movies were going. Lucas made sure that Zahn didn’t step on that plan, making sure that characters, even, that were planned for Lucas’ sequels had the same names and backgrounds as Zahn’s.

Then, Disney just decided to ignore all those years of work for no logical rhyme or reason.

Even Rian Johnson decided to honor that canon to some extent by giving Kilo Ren his original name back — Ben Solo.

Did I read different Zahn and EU books back in the day? There was no Ben Solo in (previous) canon (now designated as "Legends").

 

[Progress.City]

Did I read different Zahn and EU books back in the day? There was no Ben Solo in (previous) canon (now designated as "Legends").

You’re right. My memory is wrong. It’s been years. Where did I see Ben Solo in the EU? Maybe my memory is failing me here.

Is there a Ben character in the EU that I’m getting confused?

 

[bcoachable]

I am shocked that this sparks so much passionate discussion...
There are much more dire subjects to get passionate about.
(like the fate of SSE)

 

[MisterPenguin]

I am shocked that this sparks so much passionate discussion...
There are much more dire subjects to get passionate about.
(like the fate of SSE)

Can't wait for this discussion to move to the appropriate fora... those on Spirit's new blog site.

 

[The_Jobu]

(like the fate of SSE)

Do tell...

 

[FrankLapidus]

You’re right. My memory is wrong. It’s been years. Where did I see Ben Solo in the EU? Maybe my memory is failing me here.

Is there a Ben character in the EU that I’m getting confused?

I believe that Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade's son was named Ben.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If you were to take away any knowledge you had of Star Wars and had never seen any of the 6 movies before seeing TFA and TLJ, would Snoke not be "self-explanatory" ?


Again, these questions arise only because we have knowledge of Star Wars from the prior movies. When fans first saw A New Hope, Empire or RoTJ, nobody questioned how The Emperor or Vader came to be. It was just accepted as good vs evil. It is no different now, except we KNOW there is a backstory and some fans WANT/NEED to know it RIGHT NOW!!!

You’re agreeing with the complaint that the new films ignore what came before. A sequel is just that, it is a continuation of an established story and the events of that first story should have significance to the continuation. If you have to ignore the prior films for this story to work then what you have is one of those lame sequels that has nothing to do with what came before and is just milking the brand recognition of the original.

And again, the first trilogy did not begin with “The Emperor is dead” or “The Empire has fallen.” The context of the story is completely different.

 

[Progress.City]

Did you read the Star Wars novelization before Empire and RoTJ hit theaters?

Yes, and also Splinter of the Minds Eye, which was a backup story for a sequel in case Star Wars was not successful. And thank you for your comment on my youthful appearance.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

You’re wrong. So much backstory went into Palpatine BEFORE the original trilogy was written. As I said before, you can find much of that backstory in the preface of the Star Wars novelization. It doesn’t have to be told onscreen. Writers write backstories as a tool and guideline to help them write about the characters current motivations. The fact is none of this sort was written about Snoke - on or offscreen. But the detailed history of Palpatine was written before the movies.

About Zahn and Lucas, they had a plan on where the movies were going. Lucas made sure that Zahn didn’t step on that plan, making sure that characters, even, that were planned for Lucas’ sequels had the same names and backgrounds as Zahn’s.

Then, Disney just decided to ignore all those years of work for no logical rhyme or reason.

Even Rian Johnson decided to honor that canon to some extent by giving Kilo Ren his original name back — Ben Solo.

You seem content to die on the hill of your "novelization backstory is enough", stance...

But you do realize George Lucas didn't actually write that novelization? Also, Palpatine's "backstory" is different than his characterization in the films...

Reading for the interested:
https://www.tor.com/2013/01/24/weir...ar-wars-movie-and-its-preceding-novelization/

 

[Progress.City]

You seem content to die on the hill of your "novelization backstory is enough", stance...

But you do realize George Lucas didn't actually write that novelization? Also, Palpatine's "backstory" is different than his characterization in the films...

Reading for the interested:
https://www.tor.com/2013/01/24/weir...ar-wars-movie-and-its-preceding-novelization/

Yes, of course. Alan Deen Foster ghost wrote it. I’ll check out your link now.

Also, the actual backstories have never been released to the public as far as I know. It is written purely as a writer’s tool.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, of course. Alan Deen Foster ghost wrote it. I’ll check out your link now.

Also, the actual backstories have never been released to the public as far as I know. It is written purely as a writer’s tool.

They’ve never been released because they don’t exist.

 

[Progress.City]

You seem content to die on the hill of your "novelization backstory is enough", stance...

But you do realize George Lucas didn't actually write that novelization? Also, Palpatine's "backstory" is different than his characterization in the films...

Reading for the interested:
https://www.tor.com/2013/01/24/weir...ar-wars-movie-and-its-preceding-novelization/

Interesting article! Yeah, I remember the line about the duck. I thought that line was actually pretty funny.

I never said anything about novelization of the backstories, by the way. What I said was that backstories has been written. It’s written as a tool to help the writer write the screenplay, and is written for the eyes of the screenplay writer only. In screenplay writing class, we had to write the whole life of the characters before writing the outline of the screenplay. This is not in novelization format.

 

[Progress.City]

They’ve never been released because they don’t exist.

Not true. See my previous message about the steps preceding screenplay writing. Journal of the Whills and the entire prequel trilogy’s story were part of the backstory that preceded the writing of the screenplay. (Or written part of)

P.s. I heavily suspect that much of that backstory was actually changed for the prequel movies.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Interesting article! Yeah, I remember the line about the duck. I thought that line was actually pretty funny.

I never said anything about novelization of the backstories, by the way. What I said was that backstories has been written. It’s written as a tool to help the writer write the screenplay, and is written for the eyes of the screenplay writer only. In screenplay writing class, we had to write the whole life of the characters before writing the outline of the screenplay. This is not in novelization format.

I know the "write the backstory" exercise for screenwriters. However, that doesn't mean every detail of the backstory will make it in the eventual film.

For Palpatine though, I think you're expecting that people would have read the novelization prior to seeing ESB. I'm just saying that's not the case, and no one was really annoyed by not having knowledge of his backstory. Same goes for Vader, Yoda, etc.

 

[jakeman]

Was Zahn not upset with all the material Lucas did not use either?

If any of the old EU authors are upset about the canon switch they've been smart enough to keep their mouth shut about it.

You’re wrong. So much backstory went into Palpatine BEFORE the original trilogy was written. As I said before, you can find much of that backstory in the preface of the Star Wars novelization. It doesn’t have to be told onscreen. Writers write backstories as a tool and guideline to help them write about the characters current motivations. The fact is none of this sort was written about Snoke - on or offscreen. But the detailed history of Palpatine was written before the movies.

Much of the original Star Wars novelization doesn't match the movie, much less the other written canon surrounding it. The preface you're referring to only broadly outlines the events of prequels. I

About Zahn and Lucas, they had a plan on where the movies were going. Lucas made sure that Zahn didn’t step on that plan, making sure that characters, even, that were planned for Lucas’ sequels had the same names and backgrounds as Zahn’s.

I don't believe this is accurate. It's been pretty well documented that Lucas chaffed at having to adhere to the EU names of Coruscant and Kashyyyk,

Even Rian Johnson decided to honor that canon to some extent by giving Kilo Ren his original name back — Ben Solo.

This has already been addressed but you are thinking of Ben Skywalker. Ben Solo's closet EU analogue would be Jacen Solo.

Not true. See my previous message about the steps preceding screenplay writing. Journal of the Whills and the entire prequel trilogy’s story were part of the backstory that preceded the writing of the screenplay. (Or written part of)

P.s. I heavily suspect that much of that backstory was actually changed for the prequel movies.

This is not accurate. The introduction for the Star Wars novelization by George Lucas clearly states the novelization was written based off the screenplay. Not the other way around.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Just one more thing...RJ is the best at responding to critics who think he doesn't understand what he's doing.
((POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD))
https://twitter.com/i/moments/954403686419058689

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not true. See my previous message about the steps preceding screenplay writing. Journal of the Whills and the entire prequel trilogy’s story were part of the backstory that preceded the writing of the screenplay. (Or written part of)

P.s. I heavily suspect that much of that backstory was actually changed for the prequel movies.

The Journal of the Whills is a draft of the first film. That’s all there is, drafts of the first, single, stand alone movie that had different bits of exposition that later Lucas thought could be expanded into a film or two for the anthology series that others would populate. The novelization just took some of those bits, there was nothing more.

 

[bclane]

Just one more thing...RJ is the best at responding to critics who think he doesn't understand what he's doing.
((POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD))
https://twitter.com/i/moments/954403686419058689

Aha! I had wondered if that was the ability RJ was thinking about when he created that scene. I posted the following back on p. 13 of the spoiler thread for TLJ back on Dec. 18:

I wonder if Rian was thinking about the Similfuturus ability and just expanded it into Luke’s far distance Force projection ability.

For the curious:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dopplegänger

I feel like I deserve a cookie or something. lol!