News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes

Creathir

Well-Known Member
And your credentials in urban design and transportation are exactly ? What are the criteria you are using to determine what is and is not natural ? Cost effectiveness , availability, riders per hour or exactly how many alligators you can displace ?
Lol.

If someone wants to argue if a ski lift naturally belongs on a ski slope, well have at it.

I'm not going to argue nonsense like that.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Stations are virtually at ground level.

Just like the height is a balance of different constraints, this one should have been obvious to others as a balance too.

How steep the angle is (or can be) from the travel height to the station height.
How much clear travel space is required between the station and the towers because of that height.
How much space to raise guests (and how) from where they're walking to the platform.
How much space below loading level the station requires (machinery, gondola below loading platform, that type of thing).

Like everything, it'll be a balance of these and not some scenario that's an absolute.

No 2 story tall loading buildings with elevators or hundred yard ramps to keep the travel angle super small.
No super small angle requiring a hundred yards of clear no go space.
No super large angle for a rapid decent/assent from load to travel height.
Not directly at ground level with no change in station elevation at all, requiring digging down for station mechanical works.

Balance between them all. Reasonable compromises between all those factors for a station that fits in where it's put and works well operationally. :)


Ski resort buildings are often deceiving, or some of the other pictures on mountains. Because of the mountain, it's often normal for many different floors to be "at ground level". Walk in one side on floor 1 from a ground level door and walk out the other side from floor 3 also at ground level for that side. A mountain will tend to do that to you. Clearly, the huge elevation changes in FL and the selected sites doesn't work the same way. :)
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Lol.

If someone wants to argue if a ski lift naturally belongs on a ski slope, well have at it.

I'm not going to argue nonsense like that.

Its not a ski lift. No chairs, enclosed gondolas more on the order of the Constantine Aerial Tramway which is public transportation.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
Lol.

If someone wants to argue if a ski lift naturally belongs on a ski slope, well have at it.

I'm not going to argue nonsense like that.

This isn't a chair lift. The first gondola system built at a ski resort was in 1986. The Roosevelt Island Tramway was completed in 1976. So I guess they 'naturally' belong in cities.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Original Poster
Good lord do some of you people have any concept of statistics? It's like the people who won't get on a plane but have no problem driving to work, when the you're quite literally a thousand times safer on the plane.

You're at least a hundred times safer on that gondola than you are on a Disney bus traversing public WDW roads.

Most fears are irrational, doesn't make it any less of a problem for the people who have them.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
If the gondola cable is severed, all gondolas currently on the system are impacted.

Once again, I understand this is an extremely unlikely event (on the scale of a ticket price decrease) but it still is a reality of the system.

You are far more likely to see a system shutdown due to a control system halt or mechanical fault than you are a catastrophic, all systems failure.

Having a bus be cut in half by a t-bone collision is also a 'reality of the system'
Having an elevator fall in a shaft is also a 'reality of the system'
Having a bus drive off the side of an overpass is also a 'reality of the system'
Having a standing guest on a bus fly through the windshield is a 'reality of the system'
Having an airplane fall from 30,000ft and turn into a hole of small bits is also a 'reality of the system'

At some point, people need to trust the systems in place and worry more about the practical concerns, and less about the 'what if everything fails' scenario that virtually never happens... and when it does.. you won't be there.

You can't focus on the 'will never happen, but COULD!!!' if you want to function in the real world as a consumer.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Most fears are irrational, doesn't make it any less of a problem for the people who have them.

But you can't design your product and constrain everyone else based on the irrational handful. People are free to be bat-@$% crazy.. they just need to accept that they are and will be handled differently :)
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
Good lord do some of you people have any concept of statistics? It's like the people who won't get on a plane but have no problem driving to work, when the you're quite literally a thousand times safer on the plane.

You're at least a hundred times safer on that gondola than you are on a Disney bus traversing public WDW roads.
There is no question that fear of gondolas while being fine with buses is illogical. I haven't looked at everything, but I don't think people are actually arguing that refusing to board a gondola is rational. I think instead they are noting, correctly, that there ARE people so afraid of heights, the feeling of no control, or the idea of being somewhere where there is no available means of escape that they'll refuse to ride this mode of transport. The question is whether there are enough people that have that fear that it will wind up causing problems for Disney once this is the primary/only mode of transport from several resorts to several parks. I don't think it'll be that big a problem, but others do.
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
news_whistler1.jpg
 

GCTales

Well-Known Member
Found the list.. It was not lift Blog...

A cable failing? About never
The Full List of Accidents
For this article I was hoping to find a ready made list of lift accidents. There are a few short and incomplete lists around the place but they missed out a lot and they were not well referenced, so to get the fullest and most accurate list we had to make our own. For this list, and this is a weird distinction to have to make, we limited it to accidents with at least one fatality or if there were no fatalities to at least ten injuries…
9 Apr 1947: Monte Serrate, Santos, São Paulo, Brazil (funicular): 1 dead, 6 injured [scenic]
At 1.45 in the afternoon, twenty years after it was constructed the cable snapped on the Monte Serrate funicular that was carrying 30 people at the time killing one woman and injuring 6 other people. There are references on the internet to a crash killing 31 people on the 29 August 1956 but I can’t find evidence to support this.

26 Jul 1956: Rowe Mountain, New Hampshire, USA (chairlift): 1 dead, 7 injured [ski resort]
A In what was probably the first fatal chairlift accident one man dies and seven people were injured when the steel cable on a chair-lift up Rowe Mountain snapped while carrying 30 people.

10 Aug 1957: Cogne, Val d'Aosta, Italy (aerial lift): 1 dead 11 injured [ski resort]
A cable car crashes while transporting workers.

15 Aug 1960: Monte Faito, near Naples, Italy (aerial lift): 2 dead [scenic]
The Funiva del Faito connects the railway station at Castellammare di Stabia with Monte Faito. In 1960 the cable detached and one of the cabins crashed onto the railway tracks below killing two.

29 Aug 1961: Aiguille du Midi, Mont Blanc, France (aerial lift): 6 dead [ski resort]
The Vallee Blanche Aerial Tramway that connects Courmayeur (Italy) with Chamonix (France) was hit by a French air force F-84F fighter jet. The cable severed and three cabins fell 500ft onto the glacier below killing the six passengers. Another 81 passengers were trapped with the last people being rescued after 20 hours. The aircraft was able to land safely and the pilot Bernard Ziegler went on to become an air force test pilot and later a senior vice president at Airbus.

5 Sep 1965: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA (aerial lift): 2 dead, 48 injured [scenic]
Two people were killed and at least 48 injured when two steel towers supporting the “Sky Lift” gondola ride collapsed into a crowd during the Nebraska State Fair.

25 Dec 1965: Puy de Sancy, France (aerial lift): 7 dead, 10 injured [ski resort]
On Christmas day 1965 power failure and strong winds caused the floor of a gondola to tear off and seventeen skiers fell through the void. One boy, Jean-Pierre Audy aged 13, survived when his shoe was caught in a pile of skis leaving him dangling in the air.

9 Jul 1966: Aiguille du Midi, Mont Blanc, France (aerial lift): 2 dead, 16 injured [ski resort]
A lightening strike causes a pylon to break despite the structure being checked that morning. Three gondolas detach and fall onto the glacier below killing two, injuring 16 and trapping a further 80 people.

15 Jun 1968: Raton Pass, New Mexico, USA (chairlift): 1 dead, 7 injured [scenic]
A large group of schoolchildren turned up at the chairlift and the attendant loaded every chair. The chairlift became overloaded and started roll back. In the panic a shoe was used as a improvised brake, the cable wrapped up and brought the ride to an immediate stop, shaking off some of the passengers.

8 Dec 1970: Merano, Italy (aerial lift): 5 dead [ski resort]
* Unable to find much supporting evidence of this event. Different versions put the accident on either the 6thor the 8th of December. The Guardian places the accident on the 8th.

1 Aug 1971: Alagna Valsesia, Italy (aerial lift): 4 dead [ski resort]
A mid-air collision between two gondolas of the Funivia di Belvedere after one cabin came loose and slid down the rope crashing into the next one.

12 Jul 1972: Bettmeralp, Switzerland (aerial lift): 12 dead, 2 injured [ski resort]
The Bettmeralp aerial tramway was a single cab that could take 120 people at a time up a vertical height of 1,000m. On the day of the accident the cabin was returning to the valley floor when the tow rope snapped, the cabin accelerated down the cable and smashed into the concrete wall of the based station. Of the 14 passengers 12 died and 2 were seriously injured.

26 Oct 1972: Les Deux Alps, France (aerial lift): 9 dead [ski resort]
During the testing of the aerial tramways two cabs collided killing nine people.
* Unable to find much supporting evidence of this event other than listing in Wikipedia.

1 Jan 1973: Unknown Resort, Idaho, USA (chairlift): 17 injured [ski resort]
Very little information in this accident, and it’s made the list because of some good quotes from ski lift inspector Howard Anderson who clearly explains the cause of the problems are the passengers, “Most lifts are built well, maintained well and are basically structurally sound. What makes them unsafe is people.” Then he blames the snow “Snow is the worst enemy of the chairlift.” Before he finally throws the blame on gravity, “Very simply put, gravity is the enemy of the chairlift.” Chairlifts have a lot of enemies.

9 Jul 1974: Ulriken, Norway (aerial lift): 4 dead [scenic]
A gondola approaching the top station of the Ulriksbanen slid down the cable before dropping off and falling straight down the mountain killing four.

9 Mar 1976: Cavalese, Italy (aerial lift): 42 dead, 1 injured [ski resort]
Known as ‘The Cavalese Cable Car Disaster’, this was the single worst aerial lift accident. The steel cable broke as the car was descending from Cermis in the ski resort of Cavalese. The cabin fell 200 meters down the mountain and during the fall the three ton overhead carriage assembly crushed the car. Of the 43 passengers the only survivor was a 14 year old girl called Alessandra Piovesan.

26 Mar 1976: Vail, Colorado, USA (aerial lift): 4 dead, 5 injured [ski resort]
Two gondolas derailed and fell from an aerial ski lift as a result of a fayed cable. The fault was found to be caused by a pattern of negligence in the maintenance of the lifts at the resort.

20 Jan 1977: Jiminy Peak, New England, USA (chairlift): 11 injured [ski resort]
11 skiers were hospitalized and several dozen had to be rescued after the brakes failed on a chairlift causing it to rollback at high speeds.

15 Apr 1978: Squaw Valley, California, USA (aerial lift): 4 dead, 32 injured [ski resort]
At 3.45pm during blizzard conditions the cable of the Squaw Valley Aerial Tramway came off its saddle on Tower 2. A car containing 44 passengers was derailed and fell 75 feet at which point the lose cable struck the cabin and sheared through the roof and wall pinning 12 people against the floor and killing three instantly. There’s a very good article on the accident including interviews with the people involve here.

5 Apr 1981: Heavenly, California, USA (chairlift): 17 injured [ski resort]
A number of passengers where thrown off the lift and others crashed into the support towers after the cable dropped 10 feet. The accident was believed to be caused by some of the passengers swinging the chairs.

29 Jan 1983: Sentosa, Singapore (aerial lift): 7 dead, 1 injured [scenic]
During the Singapore Cable Car Disaster two cabins fell 55 meters into the sea after the ropeway was struck by the derrick of the oil drilling ship Eniwetok. 13 other people were trapped and had to be rescued by helicopter.

13 Feb 1983: Champoluc, Val d'Aosta, Italy (aerial lift): 11 dead [ski resort]
One cabin came lose and slide down the rope the impacts two others. Shortly after the initial accident the lift is restarted which resulted in three cabins falling from the cable killing 11 passengers.

4 Feb 1984: Big Powderhorn, Michigan, USA (chairlift): 1 dead, 8 injured [ski resort]
A lift operator was killed when he got entangled in the cable of a chairlift when he tried to fix the mechanism without first checking that the lift was turned off. 8 passengers were injured when they were thrown of the chairs.

14 Dec 1985: Keystone, Colarado, USA (chairlift): 2 dead, 48 injured [ski resort]
A faulty weld breaks on the main pulley of the Teller chairlift built by the now infamous Lift Engineering (Yan) company. 50 people were thrown from the lift.

1 Mar 1987: Luz-Ardiden, Huates-Pyrénées, France (chairlift): 6 dead, 87 injured [ski resort]
6 deaths and 87 injuries (41 of which were serious) were caused when the anchor pylon of the chairlift broke, throwing 50 chairs to the ground.

13 Jan 1989: Alpe d’Huez, France (aerial lift): 8 dead [ski resort]
A cabin detached from the cable during testing of the newly constructed Vaujany lift killing eight technicians. Three executives of the Pomagalski company that built the lift were found guilty of manslaughter and given suspended sentences and fines.

23 Dec 1989: Maple Mountain, Michingan, USA (chairlift): 1 dead [ski resort]
A 6-year-old boy was strangled in a ski-lift mechanism after his clothing got caught in the machinery.

1 Jun 1990: Tbilisi, Georgia (aerial lift): 21 dead [scenic]
The hauling rope broke causing a cabin to slide at high speeds down the cable, ramming a parallel cabin on its way before hitting a pylon and breaking in half. Passengers fell from the cabin onto the buildings and streets below. The second cabin then slid down the cables and was destroyed when it crashed into the base station wall. The gondolas were overcrowded at the time of the accident and a short time before larger gondolas had been installed without any adjustments to the cables and structure. I cannot find details of the number of people who were injured.

24 Nov 1991: Pico Espejo, Mérida, Venezuala (aerial lift): 2 dead [scenic]
The accident on the highest cable car in the world happened when the cable broke on the last pylon of the forth section. One cabin fell from the lift killing the two passengers. 5 people were previously killed during the construction of the cable car back in 1958

29 Jan 1992: Nassfeld, Austria (chairlift): 4 dead, 9 injured [ski resort]
The cable jumped of the guide wheels and the resulting ricochet threw the passengers from the lift.

4 Apr 1993: Sierra Ski Ranch, California, USA (chairlift): 1 dead, 1 injured [ski resort]
A 9-year-old boy was killed and a 14-year old injured when they were thrown off the Slingshot chairlift when the chair in front of them suddenly stopped and their chair ran into it.

28 Aug 1993: Monte Solaro, Anacapri, Italy (chairlift): 1 dead, 10 injured [scenic]
A forest fire started under the scenic chairlift in the Italian island of Capri. Some passengers jumped to avoid the smoke and flames and 1 died as a result. The last passengers were rescued from the stricken chairlift 40 hours later.

23 Dec 1995: Whistler, British Columbia, Canada (chairlift): 2 dead, 10 injured [ski resort]
Four chairs detached and fell from the cable in another incident involving a lift built by the Lift Engineering (Yan) company. The cause was found to be poorly designed grips that hold the chair to the cable. The grips had failed as the result of a sudden emergency stop.

12 Oct 1996: Quebec, Canada (funicular): 1 dead, 15 injured [scenic]
The Funiculaire du Vieux Quebec or Old Quebec Funicular crashed into its base station with 16 tourists aboard when its cable broke and brakes failed.

6 Dec 1996: Snow Valley, Ontario, Canada (chairlift): 1 dead, 1 injured [ski resort]

A ski instructor was killed when the chair he was riding crashed into a 10-metre-high lift tower after derailing from the lift's pulleys.

14 Dec 1996: Riederalp, Switzerland (aerial lift): 1 dead, 18 injured [ski resort]
A broken axle in the base station of the Moosfluh lift caused three gondolas to hit the ground.

3 Feb 1998: Cavalese, Italy (aerial lift): 20 dead [ski resort]
The second Cavalese Cable Car Disaster occurred when a US Marine Corps Prowler jet struck and severed the cable of the aerial lift. 20 people in the cabin of the descending from Cermis fell over 80 meters to their deaths. The jet which was damaged but managed to land safely was apparently trying to fly under the cables. The pilot Captain Richard J Ashby and his navigator Captain Joseph Schweitzer were put on trial for involuntary manslaughter and negligent homicide but were found not guilty because of a lack of definitive evidence. Immediately after landing they had removed and destroyed the video recording of the flight and for this they were found guilty of obstruction of justice, they were dismissed from the Marines and Captain Ashby served four and a half months in jail. The crash is known in Italy as the Strage del Cermis (Massacre of Cermis).

1 Jul 1999: Saint-Etienne en Devoluy, France (aerial lift): 20 dead [ski resort]
20 workers died when the gondola detached from cable and the struck the ground. The lift was used to supply the Bure observatory and was not open to the public.

26 Dec 1999: Crans Montana, Switzerland (aerial lift): 1 dead, 4 injured [ski resort]
During a fierce storm with winds hitting 95 mph an uprooted tree crashed into the cable of a ski lift causing a gondola with 5 people in to fall.

6 Jul 2000: Oberstdorf, Germany (aerial lift): 32 injured [ski resort]
The two cabins of the cable car were still in the top and bottom stations when and electronic failure caused the system to break heavily slamming the cabins into the concrete walls.

11 Nov 2000: Kaprun, Austria (funicular): 155 dead [ski resort]
A fire on the ascending train of the Gletscherbahn 2 funicular lead to the deaths of 155 people. The fire started at in an electric heater in the conductor’s cabin at rear of the train and it melted through the braking system which caused the train to come to a halt. The doors on the train failed to open leaving passengers trying to smash the break-resistant acrylic glass windows to escape. 12 passengers at the rear of the train managed to break out and made their way downwards past the fire to escape. Despite the conductor managing to unlock the doors and some of the passengers being able to start making their way up the tunnel all the other people on board as well as the conductor and one passenger on the descending train died of smoke inhalation as the poisonous smoke travelled up the tunnel. The funicular was sealed off after the accident and it was replaced by an aerial lift.

4 Jan 2001: Powder Ridge, Minnesota, USA (chairlift): 1 dead [ski resort]
A 14-year-old girl died of asphyxiation when se tried to jump off a chairlift while in transit. The girl was snowboarding at Powder ridge with a friend when they decided to make the jump. Her helmet got caught between the set and the safety bar and she was strangled by the helmet strap.

1 Feb 2001: Angels Flight, San Francisco, USA (funicular): 1 dead, 7 injured [scenic]

One of the carriages, nearing the upper station, reversed direction and accelerated downhill to crash into the other carriage. The Lift Engineering (Yan) company was largely responsible for the poor design and construction that resulted in the crash and the founder of the company Yan Kunczynski fled to La Paz inMexico to avoid prosecution.

3 Jan 2003: Arthurs Seat, Melbourne, Australia (chairlift): 18 injured [scenic]
A pylon collapsed injuring 18 people and leaving 65 stuck on the lift. The accident was the first of three failures that happened in a three year period. The owners were prosecuted and the chairlift is currently closed.

19 Oct 2003: Darjeeling, India (aerial lift): 4 dead, 11 injured [scenic]
Three carriages of the Darjeeling Rungeet Valley Ropeway came off the cables and fell 100 feet into the field below.

2 Apr 2004: Yerevan, Armenia (funicular): 3 dead, 6 injured [scenic]
On its way to Nor Nork from downtown Yerevan one of the trains derailed.

27 Jul 2004: Abisko National Park, Sweden (chairlift): 1 dead, 3 injured [ski resort]
A chair came lose and slid down the cable to hit the following one.

5 Sep 2005: Sölden, Austria (aerial lift): 9 dead, 10 injured [ski resort]
A helicopter carrying materials to a mountaintop construction site accidently dropped a 750 kg concrete block onto the lift, knocking one gondola off and causing the others to swing so violently that their passengers were thrown out.

24 May 2007: Zillertal, Mayrhofen, Austria (aerial lift): 1 dead, 2 injured [ski resort]
During testing before the summer season a gondola from the Penkenbahn lift came lose and fell 40 meters with three workers inside.

28 Nov 2007: Heavenly, California, USA (chairlift): 1 dead [ski resort]

A 19-year-old snowboarder fell from the Dipper Express Chairlift when he leant forward because of leg cramp. The safety bar was not down on his chair.

2 Mar 2008: Chamonix, France (aerial lift): 1 dead [ski resort]
A man fell out of a gondola after he leaned on and broke the plexiglass window. The man and his three who were with him on the lift had been drinking.

3 Jan 2008: Grindelwald, Switzerland (chairlift): 1 dead, 3 injured [ski resort]
During 90 kph winds, the lift cable jumped of a guide wheel causing several chairs to fall.

16 Dec 2008: Blackcomb, British Columbia, Canada (aerial lift): 10 injured [ski resort]
Ten people at the Whistler Blackcomb ski resort were injured and others left stranded after a tower supporting the Excalibur gondola lift collapsed.

2 Mar 2009: Sierra Nevada National Park, Spain (chairlift): 17 injured [ski resort]
A cable slipped off the runners dropping a number of chairs to the ground.

1 Sep 2009: Heavenly, California, USA (chairlift): 1 dead, 1 injured [ski resort]
One of the guide ropes from the nearby Heavenly Flyer zip line caught on the chairlift cable upending a chair with a honeymooning couple on it. The woman was caught in the wire and was able to hold on but the man fell to his death.

17 Dec 2009: Devil’s Head, Wisconsin, USA (chairlift): 14 injured [ski resort]
A massive failure of the lift’s gearbox resulted in the lift brake failing and the weight of the people on the ascending chairs caused the lift to suffer a rollback. The passengers were injured when they were thrown or sometimes chose to jump from the accelerating lift. If you want to know what a roll back looks like here is a video of a test. There is a good article on the accident with a very interesting comments section here.

Isn't that true of the monorail too? That berm collapses and you're talking serious injury too. Or for that matter any of the rides in the parks that go up high? What is the history of gondola lines snapping or being severed? There are enough of these worldwide now we should have a pretty solid history. I believe it's been something like 40 years since the last fatality from a closed cabin gondola accident in the US. It's actually one of the safest forms of transport. If someone with bad intentions wants to attack the system they could probably figure out a way to take it down, but the same goes for monorails, boats, busses or even park rides.

this includes regular charilifts and systems differing from what we think Disney is installing... Catastrophic failures, it looks like, can be attributes to multiple outside causes (like a fighter jet flying into the cable)

Lift blog made this comment.

Both are so safe that it's tough to even quantify. The only fatal gondola accident in American history occurred on a bi-cable model at Vail in 1976. 3S gondolas have been involved in zero fatal accidents worldwide. Monocable gondolas also enjoy a perfect safety record in the United States.

Both 3S and monocable gondolas operate continuously and can achieve almost the same capacity (5,000 pphpd vs. 4500 respectively) with the latter at much lower cost. Idea being, the smaller the cabins, the closer together they can be. Chairlifts take this a step further with 2-6 passenger chairs as little as six seconds apart.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Hey, I'm not the one alleging that airplanes fall out of the sky like bricks...

Newsflash... that's what happens when lift is not sufficient or the loss of control surfaces


It's called 'heavier than air' flight for a reason. If you want to focus on the hypothetical... there is the reality that planes only stay airborne because of controlled lift - without they fall, just like every other heavier than air object.
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Newsflash... that's what happens when lift is not sufficient or the loss of control surfaces


It's called 'heavier than air' flight for a reason. If you want to focus on the hypothetical... there is the reality that planes only stay airborne because of controlled lift - without they fall, just like every other heavier than air object.

So... when the wings fall off, or the aircraft falls apart, they fall like bricks. But, to quote you, "millions get in them" precisely because the wings don't usually fall off, nor do the planes disintegrate in the sky.
Let's focus on the reality...
Even when the engines quit, jets have to land, and quickly, but they don't stop flying -- remember "The Miracle on the Hudson"? That was a controlled landing from a controlled glide. Gliding is a form of flying (and not "falling gracefully" -- I knew you would go there), and while commercial jetliners are definitely not sailplanes, they don't just fall out of the sky when the engines quit either.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
So... when the wings fall off, or the aircraft falls apart, they fall like bricks. But, to quote you, "millions fly in them" precisely because the wings don't usually fall off, nor do the planes disintegrate in the sky.
Let's focus on the reality...
Even when the engines quit, jets have to land, and quickly, but they don't stop flying -- remember "The Miracle on the Hudson"? That was a controlled landing from a controlled glide. Gliding is a form of flying (and not "falling gracefully" -- I knew you would go there), and while commercial jetliners are definitely not sailplanes, they don't just fall out of the sky when the engines quit either.

Maybe you should go back and re-read the posts I was replying too... you seem to be looking at words and not understanding their use or the conversation at hand. I wasn't saying it happens 'usually' - in fact the opposite.

And yes, planes can glide if they still have the control surfaces (or in extreme cases, can use throttles to control pitch and yaw). That doesn't mean 'falling like a brick' doesn't happen. It doesn't just take losing a wing to result in loss of controlled flight. Lose hydraulics, and you lose control surfaces. Stall, and you will have a departure - fail to recover before you run out of altitude and you get.. :/ . Sadly most high altitude terrorist bombing incidents have also resulted in complete loss of flight and just free falls.

Gliding takes control and lift surfaces.. and airplanes have multiple systems to avoid total loss of control due to a single failure. But commercial aviation history is laden with all accidents that have been used as data to further improve designs that at the time, were thought to be sufficient.

My jacket reads: "flight test team" - I'm no noob when it comes to aviation.
 
Do we know if this gondola system has a name yet? Whether an official or unofficial name? (sorry if this has been touched upon, I've read through 100 pages leaving 80+ unread....) The reason is I heard it called something (second hand) by an imagineer, for whatever that's worth.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Do we know if this gondola system has a name yet? Whether an official or unofficial name? (sorry if this has been touched upon, I've read through 100 pages leaving 80+ unread....) The reason is I heard it called something (second hand) by an imagineer, for whatever that's worth.
Are you asking about the Project Italian Job code name?
 

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