AVATAR land construction progress

PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
Oh and Tony Baxter also increased the length of the Fantasyland attractions, because he knew that then the Imagineers could include new scenes and make the ride more entertaining. This is despite the small spaces that the Fantasyland attractions took up. When Disney has the space at WDW, it just always is a matter of money.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
You stated that you think "time was an over blown as an issue". My post was in response to that. There was no comparison to the E-tickets and the Avatar boat ride. Not sure where you got that.?. My point was that if these E-tickets were shorter, they would not be E-tickets. Ride time does matter.
Let's look at Pirates. The WDW version of Pirates is the one I grew up with and love, but when I went to DL, it was obvious that the DL version was better and a lot of that is because it is longer and therefore more immersive. I can lose myself in the DL version. A 4-minute version of SSE would not be the same attraction. The same with the other E0tickets I mentions. Length helps the guest be more immersed and helps the Imagineers tell their stories.

Let me ask you this @GoofGoof... If you were an Imagineer and were trying to make an immersive ride... Would you a want to tell that story in 4 minutes or 8 minutes? Do you think a shorter attraction could immerse the guest better?
Of course I would prefer a longer ride. As a fan I would prefer every new ride was an e-ticket. The reality is that's not going to happen. The simulator ride is the big ticket E and the boat is a companion ride. 2 E tickets would have been great but that's a lot to invest in a risky IP. We will have that with SW which is a much stronger IP.

My only point on ride time is that a ride can still be immersive and pretty good without being over 5 minutes long. I don't think long ride time is the only thing that makes a ride an e-ticket. That failed Antarctica ride at Sea World is plenty long but it's still an epic fail.
 

PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
Of course I would prefer a longer ride. As a fan I would prefer every new ride was an e-ticket. The reality is that's not going to happen. The simulator ride is the big ticket E and the boat is a companion ride. 2 E tickets would have been great but that's a lot to invest in a risky IP. We will have that with SW which is a much stronger IP.

My only point on ride time is that a ride can still be immersive and pretty good without being over 5 minutes long. I don't think long ride time is the only thing that makes a ride an e-ticket. That failed Antarctica ride at Sea World is plenty long but it's still an epic fail.

The fact that you said "I would prefer a longer ride" takes away from your claim that ride length is over-rated.

We would all want Super E-Tickets for all new rides. We all know that won't happen. However, Pandora: World of Avatar cost 1 billion for 2 rides. IMHO they should both be E-Tickets. RSR cost $250 million alone and it if fantastic! Spend 1/2 billion on the rides and another 1/2 billion on the land. TDO has a budget problem. TDO (when spending) is spending their money poorly.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
We would all want Super E-Tickets for all new rides. We all know that won't happen. However, Pandora: World of Avatar cost 1 billion for 2 rides. IMHO they should both be E-Tickets. RSR cost $250 million alone and it if fantastic! Spend 1/2 billion on the rides and another 1/2 billion on the land. TDO has a budget problem. TDO (when spending) is spending their money poorly.
I don't know how they spend their money or why things cost what they are rumored to cost. I don't really get as hung up on it as others here do either. As long as it wows me and is high quality it's money well spent.
 

PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
I don't know how they spend their money or why things cost what they are rumored to cost. I don't really get as hung up on it as others here do either. As long as it wows me and is high quality it's money well spent.
I totally agree, but what if the money was spent well and that would have given you another ride (a coaster) or a kinetic transport that was originally to go in Star Wars land. The former was cut early, but the later seems to have been cut because of over-blown budgets for Pandora and Shanghai. Would the budget matter to you then?

@GoofGoof I know Disney has the money to build world class attractions. They will spend 300 million plus advertising on John Carter, but if they would spend that on an attraction that would draw guest to the parks the park would be much more current right now.

I think Pandora will be beautiful, but as it stands it seems to have the same to offer as NFL except with an E-ticket.
 

mickey v-neck

Active Member
I don't know how they spend their money or why things cost what they are rumored to cost. I don't really get as hung up on it as others here do either. As long as it wows me and is high quality it's money well spent.

It's remarkable how hung up some people get about what they think Disney should be getting for the money they are rumored to be spending.
 

PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
It's remarkable how hung up some people get about what they think Disney should be getting for the money they are rumored to be spending.
It is remarkable to me that people don't care when Capex is at an all-time low in the Iger era. It is remarkable to me that people aren't concerned that Iger cares nothing for the Florida theme parks. Things are better this year, but that's because they needed more spending because they have been neglecting the parks for 15 years.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
NRJ has gone through several spacing issues, in movement and story the past year, which has had an effect on running time. Unfortunately tbtb are viewing the incredible queue as part of the attraction. An unfortunate issue that they have been relying on way too much lately, in my opinion...
 
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PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
NRJ has gone through several spacing in movement and story the past year, which has had an effect on running time. Unfortunately tbtb are viewing the incredible queue as part of the attraction. An unfortunate issue that they have been relying on way too much lately in my opinion...
The queue is not a ride. I love the build up to the attraction, but the dependence on the queue is wrong-headed.
I am sure when the Mummy queue was full the ride made more sense. I watched the ride vid before I went, but if I hadn't done that, the coffee joke at the end makes no sense, because there was no wait in the queue. I think stories built in the queue are wasted, especially now with fast pass. I have never done Everest without a FP so I guess I don't deserve the full story. At least with Indy you all still go through the cool theming.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
The queue is not a ride. I love the build up to the attraction, but the dependence on the queue is wrong-headed.
I am sure when the Mummy queue was full the ride made more sense. I watched the ride vid before I went, but if I hadn't done that, the coffee joke at the end makes no sense, because there was no wait in the queue. I think stories built in the queue are wasted, especially now with fast pass. I have never done Everest without a FP so I guess I don't deserve the full story. At least with Indy you all still go through the cool theming.

Or conversely for the new Kong the queue is better than the ride.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
NRJ has gone through several spacing in movement and story the past year, which has had an effect on running time. Unfortunately tbtb are viewing the incredible queue as part of the attraction. An unfortunate issue that they have been relying on way too much lately in my opinion...

Especially when FP+ would likely bypass much if not all of that queue.

I actually appreciate some of the fantastic queues that Disney has (especially at WDW) and think they are huge parts of the ride experience. The problem comes when FP+ bypasses such experiences, it basically illustrates that the queue is not part of the ride as opposed to a pre-show that you do experience (e.g. the stretching room for HM) which is kinda by default then part of the ride.
 

HauntedMansionFLA

Well-Known Member
Especially when FP+ would likely bypass much if not all of that queue.

I actually appreciate some of the fantastic queues that Disney has (especially at WDW) and think they are huge parts of the ride experience. The problem comes when FP+ bypasses such experiences, it basically illustrates that the queue is not part of the ride as opposed to a pre-show that you do experience (e.g. the stretching room for HM) which is kinda by default then part of the ride.
It seems like Disney is trying to spread the crowds out in a tricky way. Use your FastPass to get on the ride a
Quickly or stand in land and see a really cool pre-show/ride experience. It looks like SWL will be using this tactic too.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I totally agree, but what if the money was spent well and that would have given you another ride (a coaster) or a kinetic transport that was originally to go in Star Wars land. The former was cut early, but the later seems to have been cut because of over-blown budgets for Pandora and Shanghai. Would the budget matter to you then?

@GoofGoof I know Disney has the money to build world class attractions. They will spend 300 million plus advertising on John Carter, but if they would spend that on an attraction that would draw guest to the parks the park would be much more current right now.

I think Pandora will be beautiful, but as it stands it seems to have the same to offer as NFL except with an E-ticket.
I'm just more of a realist about all of this. It's not that I'm not passionate about the parks or I don't want them better, but do you really believe for a second that if Avatarland came in at $500M instead of $1B that TWDC would have allocated the additional $500M saved to SW Land or WDW or any theme park at all? If I was a betting man I'd put my money on a split between share buybacks and executive bonuses for where the money would go. I'm happy they spent $1B on Pandora. It looks amazing. It has 2 pretty solid looking rides (at least from the bare minimum we have seen). I'm just glad they didn't cut the budget and eliminate the boat ride altogether which seemed to be a real possibility not too long ago. First it was rumored to be cut, then it was phase 2 and wouldn't open with the rest of the land. If anything it seems like the boat ride was plussed since the original plans were leaked. Not plussed enough to add hundreds of millions to the budget but like I said before, I have no idea what the heck they spend the extra cash on. Your guess is as good as mine.

Maybe I'm just a pixie duster or I just see things differently, but this land followed by DHS 2.0 followed by hopefully some love for EPCOT is going to make a pretty solid decade...maybe not compared to the Disney decade but certainly much better compared to the previous one anyway.
 

mickey v-neck

Active Member
I'm just more of a realist about all of this. It's not that I'm not passionate about the parks or I don't want them better, but do you really believe for a second that if Avatarland came in at $500M instead of $1B that TWDC would have allocated the additional $500M saved to SW Land or WDW or any theme park at all? If I was a betting man I'd put my money on a split between share buybacks and executive bonuses for where the money would go. I'm happy they spent $1B on Pandora. It looks amazing. It has 2 pretty solid looking rides (at least from the bare minimum we have seen). I'm just glad they didn't cut the budget and eliminate the boat ride altogether which seemed to be a real possibility not too long ago. First it was rumored to be cut, then it was phase 2 and wouldn't open with the rest of the land. If anything it seems like the boat ride was plussed since the original plans were leaked. Not plussed enough to add hundreds of millions to the budget but like I said before, I have no idea what the heck they spend the extra cash on. Your guess is as good as mine.

Maybe I'm just a pixie duster or I just see things differently, but this land followed by DHS 2.0 followed by hopefully some love for EPCOT is going to make a pretty solid decade...maybe not compared to the Disney decade but certainly much better compared to the previous one anyway.

New Fantasyland
Disney Springs
Pandora/Rivers of Light
Star Wars Experience
Toy Story Land

Yeah, "pretty solid" doesn't really begin to do it justice. Unfortunately, many on this site can't appreciate the unprecedented investment in the parks due to their bitterness and negativity. Sad.
 

Rteetz

Well-Known Member
New Fantasyland
Disney Springs
Pandora/Rivers of Light
Star Wars Experience
Toy Story Land

Yeah, "pretty solid" doesn't really begin to do it justice. Unfortunately, many on this site can't appreciate the unprecedented investment in the parks due to their bitterness and negativity. Sad.
It's because the investments were basically nonexistent from from 2005-2012ish. However you wouldn't know because you are in the Disney can do no wrong crowd. All of these additions are coming because Disney waited so long to do anything. People are now complaining because of so much construction.
 

mickey v-neck

Active Member
It's because the investments were basically nonexistent from from 2005-2012ish. However you wouldn't know because you are in the Disney can do no wrong crowd. All of these additions are coming because Disney waited so long to do anything. People are now complaining because of so much construction.

LOL. Just like I said in my post. Some people just cannot be happy. We have many new lands and e-tickets being built simultaneously, but posters on this board won't enjoy it because they're bitter disney didn't build stuff five years ago and built cabanas in tomorrowland. Sad.
 

Rteetz

Well-Known Member
LOL. Just like I said in my post. Some people just cannot be happy. We have many new lands and e-tickets being built simultaneously, but posters on this board won't enjoy it because disney built kiosks in tomorrowland. Sad.
I didn't say I wasn't happy. People have a right to be disappointed about things whether it's a kiosk, cabana, or whatever. Disney can never make everyone happy and I would have to imagine Disney has done something you don't like. If you say everything Disney does makes you happy than you're probably lying.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
New Fantasyland
Disney Springs
Pandora/Rivers of Light
Star Wars Experience
Toy Story Land

Yeah, "pretty solid" doesn't really begin to do it justice. Unfortunately, many on this site can't appreciate the unprecedented investment in the parks due to their bitterness and negativity. Sad.
Maybe because there's still plenty that needs fixing? Maybe because three of those things you listed aren't really all that compared to the other two? Maybe because even though one is a really nice outdoor mall, it's still just an outdoor mall? Maybe because one is just two carni level rides? Maybe because we haven't really seen that Disney is willing to put their all into something in WDW rather than taking the cheap/lazy route except for when certain people put their foot down (James Cameron and his infamous ego for Avatar, Bob and the BoD for SWE because even they know they can't screw that up)? Other than those two circumstances, it seems to always be "good enough." I really am thankful that these two expansions are happening. I just wish this sort of quality and attention to what can enhance a parks theme were the rule rather than the exception. Even DLR suffers with the hack job to ToT over there.
 
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djkidkaz

Well-Known Member
NRJ has gone through several spacing issues, in movement and story the past year, which has had an effect on running time. Unfortunately tbtb are viewing the incredible queue as part of the attraction. An unfortunate issue that they have been relying on way too much lately, in my opinion...

This is interesting considering we're talking about e tickets and ride time. TOT comes to mind, from the point that you actually sit in your seat the ride is about 3-4 minutes? But people consider it an e ticket at that length. I would dare say many people would add the queue as part of the attraction for that ride due to its high level of themeing. So does a queue increase the rides ticket level?
 

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