TEA Attendance Report Now due June 3rd

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I would bet the first click metric is propping up DAK in the same way it's potentially hurting IOA.

Start at DAK, out by early afternoon to another park.

Start at Uni, take the train to IOA to finish the day.
The first click is hurting MK and Epcot like it is IOA. Most likely more so. The exodus from DAK and DHS late afternoon to Epcot for Dinner and MK for fireworks and simply later hours (gasp) riding rides doesn't count.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I don't think that business logic applies to tourism. As long as the number of tourists is increasing and everyone is making more money everyone is winning. I live in Vegas and if someone builds a new $5 Billion hotel next door and we end up getting a 10% boost in revenue without spending a dime I guarantee our CEO and shareholders don't care what the new hotel made.

See, that's what a difference ten years makes. MagicYourWay changed that game.

Every move Disney has made in the last ten years has been aimed at getting folks to see WDW as a one-stop destination. You go to the website, they make it sound like you pretty much need to stay on property. They don't even want you renting a car anymore. They want to collect you at the airport, bring you to the resort, drop you off at the lobby, keep you on Disney property your entire stay, pick you up a week later, and deliver you back to the airport.

The pricing system, the "free" DME service, the "stay longer" and "flashback" (or whatever they call it? something 'back') deals, and now all the MM+ stuff. - it's all about keeping you solely at Disney. They spent $2B on a system that largely is directed just to people who stay on property.

It's not like Vegas, or even the "old" days at WDW around the turn of the century. Back then, pretty much everyone rented a car, staying on site was a splurge not a near requirement, no one spent 6 or 7 days in the parks (they didn't even sell more than 5-day park hoppers). You spent 3-4 days at Disney, 1-2 days at other parks, and a day hanging out (back when Disney used to offer copious "activities" around the resort to entice you to spend money on that day).

But those days are long, long over. Because of how the pricing is stacked, and the large percentage of guests staying on-site, people spend their entire time at WDW. It's such an expense and hassle to do Universal as well, especially now since it's not a 1-day 1-park thing. Logistically if you don't have a car it's very expensive (or slow, I know a few folks who have attempted the public bus route). And when the price difference between 5 and 7 days isn't that much, most people just get length-of-stay, further discouraging "wasting" days and paying more when you are already getting extra Disney days cheap.

It's the reverse for Universal because of this pricing, too. If you are going to Orlando, and doing Universal, you really need at least 2 if not 3 days now. When you price that out, and then you start to look at spending a few days at Disney - it just doesn't add up. You realize that for the price of 3 or 4 days at Disney you might as well do a week there. They don't even bother setting foot on Disney property, unless it's to grab a bite at DTD.

That's why most folks are doing one or the other. Since there are so many other things to do in Orlando, you can easily fill up a week with Universal and Sea World and a few other things - or you know, just relaxing a bit (which people often complain doesn't happen when you are at Disney 7-days straight).

Anecdotally, I get at least 1-2 people a week contacting me asking for help or advice about an Orlando trip. In the past few years since Potter, and Disney's large price increases, the most that are inexperienced enough to ask me are going for Universal. These are the "new bodies" that are being brought into Orlando, not folks already on the pixie dust who couldn't imagine going and not doing WDW. Not a single one who is going for Universal does both. Some definitely think about it, but when they are looking at a $2,500 vacation just doing Universal and other stuff, and a $4,000 vacation doing just Disney, and depending on how it works out nearly as much to do both - they pick Universal.

Again, that's anecdotally, I completely admit - but what other folks say, and the logic of it - I don't think it's "good for everyone" because Disney has so insulated itself to increase profits that they now don't benefit from the "trickle down" anywhere near what it would have been like even 10 years ago.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
this person must not have kids, people seem to forget that the majority of people visiting the parks are families, not just ride junkies hopping around the parks.

Kind of beside this point, but that's a really antiquated (and Disney) notion.

"Families" is not just people with toddlers.

Lots of families ride all the rides together - height requirements and physical ailments taken into account as exceptions. Families do Tower of Terror, Splash Mountain, Everest, TLM, Haunted Mansion, and even Dumbo - all together.

And I'm not even talking within the broader definition of family (though that accounts as well) but regular plain old nuclear mom, dad, and 2.5 kids families (insert @PhotoDave219 .5 kid joke).

I agree that there need to be a mix of slower and faster rides, in fact I'd rather have one good slow dark ride than ten roller coasters, but this whole "family" ride thing is really "rides appropriate for toddlers who aren't going to remember this trip anyway so why am I being dragged around?" types, not the majority of families who visit Orlando theme parks in general, or even WDW.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
The concept of market share is lost on you I think. Universal is not taking away anything from Disney...Disney's market share is still the same as it has been. Universal is just growing. But they'rs growing because people who are taking trips to WDW (that number has not decreased, err go no market share has gone away) are adding on a couple days at Universal...not substituting one for the other.

You fanbois have invented the idea of Disney vs Universal. They both benefit each other tremendously. A rising tide raises all ships, right? I can't believe the topic of how many people entered a theme park one year has created this hostile and up-in-arms of a thread. It's laughable really.
Ummmm, yeah. My daughter said I should be nice, so thanks for playing.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
The Orlando United boards thread on TEA is highly entertaining tonight. Lots of complaining and many members seem to have the "real" number of theme park clicks.

Potter was their big addition. Nothing in their pipeline comes close. It gave them an increase, but no where near Disney levels. End of story.
No more entertaining than this one. :cat:
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
At this point, you two are really just debating semantics, and what constitutes "market share" vs market position.

What still seems to be the case is that despite Universal's growing share of the market, they do not yet seem to be cutting into Disney's actual consumer base.
If anything, Disney is profiting as much from Universal's expansion as Universal is, since a lot of families make the decision to come or return to Orlando because of the new things Universal is offering, but still spend an equal, if not greater percentage of their time in Florida going (back) to Disney World. This is symbiosis, not true competition.

Universal is trying like hell to change that and become their own 3-4 day all inclusive resort destination, and they're about a water park and a monkey from getting there.
When that happens, and assuming Universal can maintain the momentum they gained from the two Potter build-outs, things are going to get really interesting.
But Universal doesn't care whether they are growing the market or taking Disney guests as long as the train keeps rolling.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
You know who is winning? The people who can put aside their blind devotion to one company or the other and enjoy six great theme parks instead of just 2 or 4.
NO! I'M
1349842626_Charlie-Sheen-Winning-Duh.jpg
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
2015 is Diagon's first full year. The increase will be solid. Not 17%, but probably 9-11%.

...could it be that... GASP... new, quality additions bring in crowds?

So even if the IP isn't Potter-level... they could... potentially get solid attendance increases anyways?

It doesn't matter if the IP is Potter-level. If Kong or F&F or Nintendo end up shocking people with their high quality, attendance will increase. It doesn't matter how popular the IP is - the execution brings guests in.

As Walt would say, "quality will win out"

If Mermaid, BoG and SDMT can add 2 million+ visitors over a 3 year period to MK, I don't see how the countless additions for UO over the next 5 years won't result in 3-4 million more visitors.
What if the water park ends up blowing people away? Would that add day 3 to the Uni day trip???
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
But Universal doesn't care whether they are growing the market or taking Disney guests as long as the train keeps rolling.

And I think that train will continue to grow because people do want an alternative to Disney. They are using the script from the Original Disney Playbook by "Always have things in the Pipeline" and "constantly changing."

What some people can't get over is that Universal is doing exactly what Disney used to do during the 80s and 90s.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Kind of beside this point, but that's a really antiquated (and Disney) notion.

"Families" is not just people with toddlers.

Lots of families ride all the rides together - height requirements and physical ailments taken into account as exceptions. Families do Tower of Terror, Splash Mountain, Everest, TLM, Haunted Mansion, and even Dumbo - all together.

And I'm not even talking within the broader definition of family (though that accounts as well) but regular plain old nuclear mom, dad, and 2.5 kids families (insert @PhotoDave219 .5 kid joke).

I agree that there need to be a mix of slower and faster rides, in fact I'd rather have one good slow dark ride than ten roller coasters, but this whole "family" ride thing is really "rides appropriate for toddlers who aren't going to remember this trip anyway so why am I being dragged around?" types, not the majority of families who visit Orlando theme parks in general, or even WDW.

..... Dear lord almighty, the number of insanely inappropriate jokes going through my mind right now referencing Josh Duggar are amazing.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
What some people can't get over is that Universal is doing exactly what Disney used to do during the 80s and 90s.

And, if you'll allow me to put...words in your mouth (just words, I swear) - you and I would be like pigs in crap heaven if Disney all of a sudden started doing it again, and kicked Universal's attractions back down the theme park totem pole.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
And, if you'll allow me to put...words in your mouth (just words, I swear) - you and I would be like pigs in crap heaven if Disney all of a sudden started doing it again, and kicked Universal's attractions back down the theme park totem pole.

I'm not interested in putting Universal anywhere. They offer things Disney can't like Halloween Horror Night. They are a thrill ride junkie's dream.

I just want Disney to start redeveloping again and doing it in a timely fashion. What Universal does doesnt bother me, unless it screws up I-4.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Not the poster it was geared towards but I'll bite...

I view Simpsons same as Dinorama for sure. Bright cartoonish facades that will cheapen out over time and be replaced in time. The mistake Universal made was creating the land to be just as it were in the cartoon. The one area Disney has had more success in the past and present is taking the cartoonish and creating real world likeness. I wish Springfield would have had more age, rustic, rest world feel to it. Yes they did a great job of recreating it in a cartoonish way, but I prefer the NFL look overall.

And yes I see Hollywood as slightly improved....
When the Simpson's has run it's course, 10 years later, they will replace it.

And the Uni Fanbois will rejoice because the replacement will be amaz-ballz!
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
IOA got a huge one time boost from HP. They didnt match the growth the next year but have a nice solid level and showed some modest gains the next year. I forsee the same thing happening with USF. They'll probably show 5% gains next year.

The key is just getting people to Orlando. They're likely going to go to both parks. And whats good for Universal is good for the area as a whole.
I think DA will have a longer sustained growth than Hogsmeade because of how they fumbled the launch. I believe this years numbers will be strong. Being the first full year of DA and Cabana Bay.
 

StageFrenzy

Well-Known Member
I'm not interested in putting Universal anywhere. They offer things Disney can't like Halloween Horror Night. They are a thrill ride junkie's dream.

I just want Disney to start redeveloping again and doing it in a timely fashion. What Universal does doesnt bother me, unless it screws up I-4.
Too late, I really don't know what is causing the big delays right now around the bend.
 

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