Wilderness Lodge DVC additions - Copper Creek Villas & Cabins

[CaptainAmerica]

You mock those complaints, so do you think that Disney is not being "Wal Marted" by having nearly the same merchandise in every park and everything having "Disney Parks" instead of a WDW logo? Have they not lowered standards to "Honey boo boo" levels through their actions such as complete lack of enforcing dress codes in signature restaurants and letting kids blast their Ipad video games while the couple next to them is trying to enjoy their $200 diner at Yachtsmen Steakhouse, or cleanliness standards that are more on par for an outlet mall? Is Cutting back on attraction and janitorial maintenance in an effort to boost the bottom line while offering high priced hard ticket events to do nothing more than eat cupcakes and watch a parade from a better angle a good thing?years?

I'd be happy to debate all of those points and agree with you on many of them. But I wholeheartedly reject the notion that any one of them has a thing to do with DVC or its members.

 

[wdisney9000]

I'd be happy to debate all of those points and agree with you on many of them. But I wholeheartedly reject the notion that any one of them has a thing to do with DVC or its members.

I don't know the extremity to which Disney's financials interconnect, but I would think that components as large as DVC affect many, many decisions. Decisions that lead to outcomes such as the ones I was speaking of.

Not saying DVC is solely responsible for any neglect to the parks or standards, but it plays a part I bet.

(Thx for not taking my previous post in a smart *ss tone even though it kinda read that way, it was not intentional)

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't know the extremity to which Disney's financials interconnect, but I would think that components as large as DVC affect many, many decisions. Decisions that lead to outcomes such as the ones I was speaking of.

Not saying DVC is solely responsible for any neglect to the parks or standards, but it plays a part I bet.

(Thx for not taking my previous post in a smart *ss tone even though it kinda read that way, it was not intentional)

Serious question. Do you think that if WDW never sold DVC the issues you listed would not exist? I'm not sure how there is any correlation between DVC and not enforcing dress codes in restaurants or DVC and merchandise in stores or the logos on bags. IMHO that's really a stretch. You can probably make an argument that DVC profits mask other issues at WDW from a business prospective, but if anything without those additional profits propping up the segment it would be likely they would have cut costs even further.

 

[wdisney9000]

Serious question. Do you think that if WDW never sold DVC the issues you listed would not exist? I'm not sure how there is any correlation between DVC and not enforcing dress codes in restaurants or DVC and merchandise in stores or the logos on bags. IMHO that's really a stretch. You can probably make an argument that DVC profits mask other issues at WDW from a business prospective, but if anything without those additional profits propping up the segment it would be likely they would have cut costs even further.

I merely suggested that any major financial decisions as large as deciding to build and add DVC constantly and doing it more quickly than anything else would most likely have an affect on the parks in some way, especially when they are trying to make the bottom line look as good as possible thanks to MM+ not bringing in the types of returns or guest satisfaction they claimed it would. Which means that in some way, the company deciding to focus on DVC for a quick profit boost, does indeed affect the parks. Not in any direct fashion, just cause and effect.

No, DVC construction is not why people are allowed to wear bathing suits and flip flops into Yachtsmen or any other restaurant. But building DVC is more important to the executives than building high quality entertainment. And thats not saying that they dont care about high quality entertainment, they just care about building DVC more. Neglecting the very essence of what has allowed them to have all this money in the first place is a$$ backwards.

 

[38053WDW]

These bungalows should be nice. Hopefully less than the poly's price since your not getting MKV... but I'll never to be able to afford them ..so it looks like river country is finally coming to and end? http://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/dis...erness-lodge-resort-dvc-villa-plans/24134.htm

 

[note2001]

These bungalows should be nice. Hopefully less than the poly's price since your not getting MKV... but I'll never to be able to afford them ..so it looks like river country is finally coming to and end? http://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/dis...erness-lodge-resort-dvc-villa-plans/24134.htm

The new cabins will only extend half way over to where River Country water park was located, so they won't be touching or cleaning up that land for this.
The Fort Wilderness / River country DVC plans we saw leaked some time back are still in Disney's files if they choose to revive them, I for one would love to see those built to the plans we saw if only to see the decaying water park disappear.

 

[38053WDW]

The new cabins will only extend half way over to where River Country water park was located, so they won't be touching or cleaning up that land for this.
The Fort Wilderness / River country DVC plans we saw leaked some time back are still in Disney's files if they choose to revive them, I for one would love to see those built to the plans we saw if only to see the decaying water park disappear.

only ting i found - http://www.chipandco.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/sjBwxM7.jpg

 

[note2001]

I honestly can't fathom how anyone would buy direct anymore.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out who they're selling to at these exorbitant prices and have come to the conclusion that it's one of three groups:

1) Folk with new money (I'm doing great on YouTube! This will last forever.)
2) Dumb with money ($160 per point is a good deal because we were told it is)
3) Folk who have no clue there's a resale market.

And as you can see, there are cross-overs between the above groups.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Ahh, my bad. I thought they had refurbed the pool there as well.

They did a gut job similar to the Poly.

 

[raymusiccity]

My dislike of the product is based on principle, not data analysis. I don't believe in prepaying for vacations, nor do I think it's wise to tie up so much cash in an "asset" with declining value. Every new piece of data I learn reinforces my belief in those principles.

To be clear, I hate it from a consumer perspective. I have no objection to its presence at WDW from a business perspective, nor do I believe it negatively impacts my experience as a "cash" guest.

ETA: To answer this specific point, I know you CAN mortgage vacation ownership interests, I just didn't realize enough people actually did so to the point of foreclosures forming a meaningful component of available inventory.

Edit 2: Also to clarify, I feel this way about all timeshares, not just DVC. Of all those available in the marketplace, DVC is probably the one I "hate least" because it trades strongly and you can actually sell it if you absolutely have to. There are some timeshares that you literally can't give away for free because nobody will take it off your hands.

'Trading strongly' doesn't seem to be a valid attribute to base a dislike for something. People love expensive new cars, but, they've certainly tied up 'cash' in a declining asset.

I would think consumer satisfaction should rank pretty high on the list as to whether it's 'wise' to tie up so much cash.

Look up 'consumer' satisfaction and see which 'time share' product ranks way up on top. Wyndham, Marriott, or DVC !

 

[CaptainAmerica]

'Trading strongly' doesn't seem to be a valid attribute to base a dislike for something.

Trading strongly is a reason I don't dislike it as much as I dislike other timeshares, not a reason I dislike it.

 

[raymusiccity]

Trading strongly is a reason I don't dislike it as much as I dislike other timeshares, not a reason I dislike it.

Understandable. Time Shares as a topic seems to thrive on love-hate relationships. Sort of like gambling. If you have a budget and enjoy it as entertainment, then it's no harm, no foul. If you're trying to win back your savings and double down with your credit card, it's another matter!

 

[GoofGoof]

Understandable. Time Shares as a topic seems to thrive on love-hate relationships. Sort of like gambling. If you have a budget and enjoy it as entertainment, then it's no harm, no foul. If you're trying to win back your savings and double down with your credit card, it's another matter!

Timeshares in general get a bad rap primarily because so many people get duped into buying them without having all the facts or really figuring out if it's a good purchase for them. Timeshare sales people rely on impulse buyers who take a tour to get free stuff and end up buying. When buyers remorse sets in or they figure out they can't afford or won't end up using the timeshare enough, a lot of people sell at a loss if they can even find a buyer. This creates the general opinion that tineshares are not a smart purchase. In a lot of cases they are not, but it's not the timeshare that's not smart it's the owner. In general if you buy a high quality timeshare, actually use it every year and don't need to sell it you can make out pretty well. Not as a financial investment but as far as getting good value for your vacation dollar.

DVC is actually different because of the resale market and very active rental market. If I decide to take a break from using my DVC for financial reasons or really any reason I can rent my points out for over 2.5 times my maintenance fees and I can go to a broker to do it so no messing with eBay or Craig's list. If I need to get out I can still recover a large portion of what I put down selling via the resale market. It seriously reduces one of the biggest risks of buying a timeshare.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Timeshares in general get a bad rap primarily because so many people get duped into buying them without having all the facts or really figuring out if it's a good purchase for them. Timeshare sales people rely on impulse buyers who take a tour to get free stuff and end up buying. When buyers remorse sets in or they figure out they can't afford or won't end up using the timeshare enough, a lot of people sell at a loss if they can even find a buyer. This creates the general opinion that tineshares are not a smart purchase. In a lot of cases they are not, but it's not the timeshare that's not smart it's the owner. In general if you buy a high quality timeshare, actually use it every year and don't need to sell it you can make out pretty well. Not as a financial investment but as far as getting good value for your vacation dollar.

DVC is actually different because of the resale market and very active rental market. If I decide to take a break from using my DVC for financial reasons or really any reason I can rent my points out for over 2.5 times my maintenance fees and I can go to a broker to do it so no messing with eBay or Craig's list. If I need to get out I can still recover a large portion of what I put down selling via the resale market. It seriously reduces one of the biggest risks of buying a timeshare.

All very true, but it's all based on the current market. There's no guarantee that rentals or resales will be as easy 10 or 20 years from now.

 

[GoofGoof]

All very true, but it's all based on the current market. There's no guarantee that rentals or resales will be as easy 10 or 20 years from now.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. You have to weigh the available information and make your best estimated guess of what will happen. You also have to have some appetite for risk. It's not a good idea to put your last few dollars into DVC. It's still a luxury purchase.

I look at DVC as a much shorter term investment than the term of the contract. Trying to predict things 50 years from now is statistically impossible. In less than 10 years I will have saved enough money with DVC that I could sell it for 1 cent and still come out on top. Not that it's possible since Disney would exercise right of first refusal well before it hit a dollar. The average breakeven from a resale contract is under 10 years so you really don't need to look that long term.

As far as renting points, the only thing that could soften that market is a decline in popularity at WDW itself. A major economic crisis or maybe just Universal winning the theme park war. Disney isn't going to lower hotel prices so there is very little risk of rental points becoming uneconomical. Even if the rental price stayed flat it would take about 30 years of estimated maintenance fee increases to reach the current rental price.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I could sell it for 1 cent and still come out on top.

Sold.

 

[raymusiccity]

All very true, but it's all based on the current market. There's no guarantee that rentals or resales will be as easy 10 or 20 years from now.

We bought into BLT five years ago, mainly because we love seeing our children and grandchildren enjoy it so much. It's like one of those 'priceless' credit card commercials. Our 50 years will hold our daughter until she's 90, and our granddaughter until she's 60......pretty sure we'll expire before our points will! Never the less, 10 or 20 years from now, the money spent will be a wash.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

We bought into BLT five years ago, mainly because we love seeing our children and grandchildren enjoy it so much. It's like one of those 'priceless' credit card commercials. Our 50 years will hold our daughter until she's 90, and our granddaughter until she's 60......pretty sure we'll expire before our points will! Never the less, 10 or 20 years from now, the money spent will be a wash.

*Shrug*. Like I've said, I hold no animosity towards Disney for offering DVC nor towards DVC members for purchasing it. I just personally believe it's a bad product with inordinate inherent risk. I also plan on going every year with my daughter (now seven months and already with one trip under her belt), but I'll be a cash guest the whole way.

 

[GoofGoof]

*Shrug*. Like I've said, I hold no animosity towards Disney for offering DVC nor towards DVC members for purchasing it. I just personally believe it's a bad product with inordinate inherent risk. I also plan on going every year with my daughter (now seven months and already with one trip under her belt), but I'll be a cash guest the whole way.

Agreed. To each their own.

I have heard of people who go to WDW for a week and buy individual 1 day tickets instead of purchasing a 7 day pass. The 7 day pass would have saved them a bunch of money, but they were worried about missing a day due to rain or illness.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Agreed. To each their own.

I have heard of people who go to WDW for a week and buy individual 1 day tickets instead of purchasing a 7 day pass. The 7 day pass would have saved them a bunch of money, but they were worried about missing a day due to rain or illness.