Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
Tacky and creepy. Just stop.

If I read something that someone's posted and don't really get where it's coming from, I usually shrug, view it as an inside joke of some sort, and move on.

To take something like that at face value -- the only way someone could reasonably infer "tackiness" or "creepiness" -- without any understanding of the actual context in which it was posted is actually pretty revealing about the person who makes such a presumption.
 

Belowthesurface

Well-Known Member
If I read something that someone's posted and don't really get where it's coming from, I usually shrug, view it as an inside joke of some sort, and move on.

To take something like that at face value -- the only way someone could reasonably infer "tackiness" or "creepiness" -- without any understanding of the actual context in which it was posted is actually pretty revealing about the person who makes such a presumption.

No, it's still tacky and creepy.
 

Kuhio

Well-Known Member
[The Little Mermaid] was so very...plastic. And cheap feeling. My son thought it was OK but after riding it once he was ready to ride something else.

We rode it in November, asked my grand-daughters (who are in the target age range for the ride) if they wanted to go again since the wait was 15 minutes. They said "Nah, let's ride something else".

In addition to looking plastic and cheap, one of the problems with the Little Mermaid is the fact that it's an unimaginative, almost literal re-telling of the story -- the attraction is actually framed from the perspective of Scuttle recounting the movie's events.

While Disney's best attractions typically have some semblance of a narrative (and might even be explicitly based on a pre-existing movie or story), they're effective largely because they don't stick rigidly to a script, but rely instead on certain specific aspects of the underlying narrative that invoke an emotional response and allow you to become engaged in experiencing the narrative, rather than having it told to you.

In other words: it may be a story about Ariel, but it should be your story for the duration of the ride. If you're sitting through the ride thinking, on some level, "I'm watching what happens to the Little Mermaid," then the ride has failed: it's become the Reader's Digest condensed version of the movie, stripped of all emotional content and ability to engage the guest in a visceral way.

In fact, the main reason the Little Mermaid is a disappointment is embodied in the very first "Disney keystone philosophy" that Tony Baxter included in his letter of resignation, ostensibly directed to his fellow Imagineers:

Creating Lasting Experiences - Legendary Imagineer Marc Davis once said, "We don't really have a story with a beginning, an end or a plot … It's more a series of experiences … building up to a climax." Guests still want to be astonished, and our best attractions deliver that wow factor with visions and emotions. ... Park experiences are by nature less able to focus on linear stories and tangible feelings than motion pictures. Unlike a movie, what separates an OK attraction from a great one is that people find themselves "in" the great ones. They have been taken to a place they couldn't have imagined without Disney. ...

In Fantasyland, a simple line of dialogue heralds the beginning of one of the most aspirational ride experiences ever created; "Come on everybody … here we go!" After riding Peter Pan, futurist Ray Bradbury was moved to write; "Walt, I'll be eternally grateful that you made it possible for me to sail from a child's window, out over moonlit London in a galleon on its way to the stars!" Despite the fact that by today's standards Peter Pan's technology is dated, its mystique has remained unwavering. The WDI challenge is finding ways to ensure today's more sophisticated experiences have similar intangible qualities that provide groundwork for lasting appeal.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
@WDW1974 @Lee

So now that we are a little more into all "this" ... I go back to my original question with a slight modification ... how successful or unsuccessful does this need to be to get money pumped back into the parks (attractions wise)? I assume if it is unsuccessful enough they may need something to divert attention ... I guess either way ... my question is now with testing underway is there any correlation of MM+ to park additions?

I don't see it having an affect on things no matter what. NGE will sink or swim on its own. I believe it will be a partial drowning that gets saved by a few hundred million here or there.

What will come to WDW will come independent of this and what won't come 'likely' won't come regardless of it.

Longwinded way of saying not much will change ... except for those way-kewl (or not) plan for Disney's Newest Plan For The Mall Currently Known as Downtown Disney.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I know it may seem like I might cause a thread drift here, but since it's spirited news, I'll drop this in:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/02/18/2479849/hk-disney-turns-first-profit-since.html

HK Disneyland finally turns in its first profit. What lead to this? Gee wiz, new attractions. Which also brought along increased guest spending and hotel occupancy rates (yeah I know it's only by 1% or what Iger would say is "up a hair"). I'll let you folks read and analyze the rest of the article points now.

No. Any news on my favorite 'little' park on Lantau is welcome. I loved my time as a 'local' there. ... This news is a bit old as Disney had released this a while back, guess AP hadn't gotten around to reporting on it.

BTW, hearing very good things about Mystic Manor, which should be ready for guests by May/June at the latest.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It was so very...plastic. And cheap feeling. My son thought it was OK but after riding it once he was ready to ride something else.

This trip was a real eye opener after visiting Universal last year. Any pixie dust I had in my bloodstream is long gone now. Thought about doing a trip report thread but it wouldn't be pretty. Probably send some here into convulsions.

feel free to just drop in some observations here ... I hate traditional trip reports and don't write them and don't read them (unless they are some trainwrecks by the truly 'special' addicts), but observations that are recent and relevant are quite welcome.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Wow I really did not remember it was this bad. Steve has always seemed very fair-minded to me and I think if I was running a site like this the last thing I would want would be to ban people from using it. Therefore I can only conclude this Merf person really crossed the line after numerous warnings.

Here we are 5 years later and Merf is still being talked about. Too bad he can't follow the rules, it's everyone's loss. But I don't blame Steve in the least especially after reading what you quoted. Thanks unkadug.

I have no idea if Merf would wish to come back if he were welcome or not. But he is still a pretty young guy and he was younger back then (why did I just state the obvious?) and we all make mistakes when we're young. That's how you learn and grow.

When you remove the emotion from the equation, the dude knows his stuff. But that's my last word on the subject here. ... I'd also like to see all the Twits that say they never read MAGIC and then comment on things taken directly from here (tell KennythePirate I LOVE his Lifestyler logo ... that must have taken days of hard work!) and the Disney Parks Blogging Brigade (yes, that's another nickname for the CPSMC) ... and someone representing Mongello and WannabeLou here too! ... Oh, and I am begging @EPCOT Explorer to come out of exile since he is impossibly close to 50,000 posts here (yeah, he's like the Tony Baxter of MAGIC in a sorta kinda maybe way ...)
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
I have another thought about MM+ if you'd like to read it.

I'm not some huge google fanboy, but a few years ago, they were introducing this new product that was going to revolutionize email. It was called Google Wave.

I was VERY excited about it, after watching the HOUR + long presentation that Google made about it and I even told several co-workers that this was going to revolutionize so many things.

But when they asked what it was, I couldn't explain it well at all.It was a way to combine contacts and facebook and twitter and photos and be able to view conversations differently, etc. etc.. Explaining the way it worked was nearly impossible I had found.

Less than a year after I expected this revolution to take place, the project was entirely canned.

While there were other issues with Google Wave, it was never really adopted well IMO because the fact that it took an hour just to describe it to a technology-based audience meant that it couldn't go mainstream easily.

I forsee the same issues with MM+.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I have another thought about MM+ if you'd like to read it.

I'm not some huge google fanboy, but a few years ago, they were introducing this new product that was going to revolutionize email. It was called Google Wave.

I was VERY excited about it, after watching the HOUR + long presentation that Google made about it and I even told several co-workers that this was going to revolutionize so many things.

But when they asked what it was, I couldn't explain it well at all.It was a way to combine contacts and facebook and twitter and photos and be able to view conversations differently, etc. etc.. Explaining the way it worked was nearly impossible I had found.

Less than a year after I expected this revolution to take place, the project was entirely canned.

While there were other issues with Google Wave, it was never really adopted well IMO because the fact that it took an hour just to describe it to a technology-based audience meant that it couldn't go mainstream easily.

I forsee the same issues with MM+.
Very similar, a solution looking for a problem.

But, it's not like there are problems that need to be attended to, no?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Tacky and creepy. Just stop.

Post wasn't tacky or creepy. Since it was written about me, I'd have said something if I thought otherwise. ... Believe me.

People creating female Midwestern 60-something personas when they're 30-something males and taking those personas to all sorts of forums? That's creepy. People pretending to be 'insiders' by borrowing the information of others and adding some spin and then having younger, more naive fanbois follow them ... oh, and creating second accounts to troll at the same time? Yep ... very creepy. People having a working/business interest in datamining but acting like they're just ordinary fans? Most definitely creepy and TACKY ... very, very tacky. Would you like me to go on?:)

Someone parodying songs a la Weird Al ... well, that may not be your cup of Earl Grey with a scone, but it is neither creepy or tacky. It's either funny to you or not. I loved it myself ... and encourage all aspiring songwriters/satirists to take their best shots at doing better than @Kuhio!
 

articos

Well-Known Member
In addition to looking plastic and cheap, one of the problems with the Little Mermaid is the fact that it's an unimaginative, almost literal re-telling of the story -- the attraction is actually framed from the perspective of Scuttle recounting the movie's events.

While Disney's best attractions typically have some semblance of a narrative (and might even be explicitly based on a pre-existing movie or story), they're effective largely because they don't stick rigidly to a script, but rely instead on certain specific aspects of the underlying narrative that invoke an emotional response and allow you to become engaged in experiencing the narrative, rather than having it told to you.

In other words: it may be a story about Ariel, but it should be your story for the duration of the ride. If you're sitting through the ride thinking, on some level, "I'm watching what happens to the Little Mermaid," then the ride has failed: it's become the Reader's Digest condensed version of the movie, stripped of all emotional content and ability to engage the guest in a visceral way.

In fact, the main reason the Little Mermaid is a disappointment is embodied in the very first "Disney keystone philosophy" that Tony Baxter included in his letter of resignation, ostensibly directed to his fellow Imagineers:
Bingo. We've seen the movie, so why do we need a literal retelling with subpar show-scenes featuring rotating plastic lawn ornaments? That's just not Disney, at least not in 2013. The water entry effect? Totally Disney. A few other moments in there are of a caliber that I consider on Disney's level. But the majority of it? Feels like it belongs in a regional park, not Disney. If there was a semblance of story that tried to take us on a journey, I'd give it more of a pass. But this is a literal retelling of a movie everyone's seen. We know, Scuttle, where's your tasty friend Flounder? This should never have been greenlit without going back to the drawing board.
Oh, one other Disney tidbit in my in-box. Apparently, New Orleans officials are trying to woo DCL to their port:

http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/2013/02/port_of_new_orleans_trying_to.html
Not exactly the family destination Disney wants associated. Good luck, NO.
 

Horizons78

Grade "A" Funny...
Whipped this up for the "Have you seen a MagicBand" thread but I figured it would play well here too.

Coincidencecomplete.png
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
Not exactly the family destination Disney wants associated. Good luck, NO.

It's not unthinkable. Miami isn't my first impression of a family destination either, and Disney's recent ports in New York and Galveston definitely show that they're trying to capture some regional interest. I could definitely see some potential customers in the Deep South that wouldn't necessarily want to make the drive down to Canaveral.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Bingo. We've seen the movie, so why do we need a literal retelling with subpar show-scenes featuring rotating plastic lawn ornaments? That's just not Disney, at least not in 2013. The water entry effect? Totally Disney. A few other moments in there are of a caliber that I consider on Disney's level. But the majority of it? Feels like it belongs in a regional park, not Disney. If there was a semblance of story that tried to take us on a journey, I'd give it more of a pass. But this is a literal retelling of a movie everyone's seen. We know, Scuttle, where's your tasty friend Flounder? This should never have been greenlit without going back to the drawing board.

It's the formula for most of the fantasyland dark rides tho. It's also my #1 complaint about the nemo subs. Just sucks all the interest out of 'what's next...'
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So in the Magic Band test is coming thread Len Testa is saying he checked in at AKL and the bands were not available? Im assuming he wasnt the only site owner with an invite.
So they invited the lifestyle bloggers to come test the MagicBand and it was not working so they could not test it? Wow. How will this get spun? I'm guessing, like Pleasure Island, it is all to just make the plan better...
 

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