A Good Read ...

[WDW1974]

Thanks for posting this, it is indeed interesting.

You are quite welcome. And I think so!

The thing that surprises me is that Iger appears to lead mainly in a way that looks out for the share price, but this is one of the things they criticised about him: that an investment in Disney stock only had a 5% increase over the last 5 years.

You noticed that ... a sort of disconnect between perception and reality.

I am sure that share prices are influenced by a million factors, but maybe Iger is looking at the wrong factors? I wonder whether the way the brand is perceived might play a role in this. Looking at the annual report, it appears to be difficult to figure out what Disney really is and stands for. ESPN is one of their largest money maker (if not the largest), in the Parks & Resorts division they rely heavily on selling DVC. Neither sports nor real estate development appear very much to be "Disney". So, maybe diversifying has left them with less of a distinctive brand and therefore the company appears less appealing in some ways?

Very well could be. Iger is very high on ESPN (rightly so) and Pixar (same) and selling real estate (mostly in FLA) and Marvel (not so sure that's so smart, although the latest Avengers trailer looks good) ... none of those things shout Disney to me ... or to millions and millions of people. Disney has become a lot more generic under Iger as he pushed brand building.

~The Real Housewives of Disney was great!~

 

[HMButler79]

I will never understand how anyone can ever defend Eisner. After Wells died he was insane. He did so many stupid things that included almost killing the relationship with Pixar. The only thing i can credit him is the smart move to merge with ABC/ESPN, which has worked out with ESPN being the greatest sports station and ABC being the best network station for the last 3-4 years.

Iger is by far one of the best things to happen to Disney. Not only for the Pixar deal but with the Marvel deal. Someone up thread incorrectly said that Disney is still paying Paramount a ton with Avengers coming out and that is flat out wrong. Disney paid a couple years ago for the rights for the movie it is just that part of the Deal was that Paramount had their logo in the credits.

If you count degrading the park product to it's moset generic form, not saving 2-D animation, buying up other people's property, sticking technology everywheer, Tangles, characters everywhere is BEST THING EEEEVERRR then you have a VASTLY different idea of what the Company was, is, and should be.

 

[WDW1974]

I'd say you're right about him being personally invested. That's not exactly a good thing, at least in the latter half of his career there. But he was all about Disney and not detached like Iger. Putting himself in the film attraction at MGM said everything. He had a HUGE ego and filled the company with HIS people who weren't looking to make Disney great. Aren't most of them still there?

He just gets wayyyyyy too much credit from some people. There's before Wells and after Wells when it comes to Eisner's tenure at Disney. And there's a big reason why things went down hill when the last of Frank's fingerprints were removed from Disney and Michael had control. That guy was the best thing to happen to Disney since Walt.

I KNOW he was personally invested. But I disagree. I do think it usually is a good thing and certainly was in Michael's first 10-15 years with the company ... before Frank died, Jeffrey left and Roy became only interested with animation but moreso how much money he was making.

Ego isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Iger has an ego as large or larger as Michael's.

I don't think Michael gets too much credit at all. Most of what the fanbois love so much about WDW happened because of him. I do agree that Frank doesn't get nearly enough credit. ... ALthough I don't think the Walt/Roy-Michael/Frank comparison works at all. It just wasn't how the company was run between 1984-1994.

~And now we're stuck with Bob ... but maybe not quite as long as we think!~

 

[HMButler79]

You are quite welcome. And I think so!



You noticed that ... a sort of disconnect between perception and reality.



Very well could be. Iger is very high on ESPN (rightly so) and Pixar (same) and selling real estate (mostly in FLA) and Marvel (not so sure that's so smart, although the latest Avengers trailer looks good) ... none of those things shout Disney to me ... or to millions and millions of people. Disney has become a lot more generic under Iger as he pushed brand building.
~The Real Housewives of Disney was great!~

^^THIS. Iger has Wal-Marted the Company to the point where noone know what Disney IS other than...Fab5, Princesses, Pirates and Pixar. Oh and characters out the wazoo in the park. Iger has NO PASSION whatsoever for the Company or the parks. Compare Eisner lovingly extolling his Annual Report letters on Disneyland Paris and Iger...well.....just talking. Iger sees the Company merely as a kiddy AOL. A distribution Company that.JUST HAPPENS to have parks. How anyone CANNOT miss Eisner and what he brought is beyond me. :veryconfu I'd rather have massive ego and Nixionian paranoia than......a man with NO passion, fire, music, creatvity, showmanship, pick an adjective. Iger is corporate America at it's worst.:hurl:

 

[HMButler79]

I KNOW he was personally invested. But I disagree. I do think it usually is a good thing and certainly was in Michael's first 10-15 years with the company ... before Frank died, Jeffrey left and Roy became only interested with animation but moreso how much money he was making.

Ego isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Iger has an ego as large or larger as Michael's.

I don't think Michael gets too much credit at all. Most of what the fanbois love so much about WDW happened because of him. I do agree that Frank doesn't get nearly enough credit. ... ALthough I don't think the Walt/Roy-Michael/Frank comparison works at all. It just wasn't how the company was run between 1984-1994.

~And now we're stuck with Bob ... but maybe not quite as long as we think!~

Him and Ron Miller. Miller's legacy laid the groundwork for Michael and Frank and lasted well into 1986 with the opening of The Living Seas.

 

[HMButler79]

I KNOW he was personally invested. But I disagree. I do think it usually is a good thing and certainly was in Michael's first 10-15 years with the company ... before Frank died, Jeffrey left and Roy became only interested with animation but moreso how much money he was making.

Ego isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Iger has an ego as large or larger as Michael's.

I don't think Michael gets too much credit at all. Most of what the fanbois love so much about WDW happened because of him. I do agree that Frank doesn't get nearly enough credit. ... ALthough I don't think the Walt/Roy-Michael/Frank comparison works at all. It just wasn't how the company was run between 1984-1994.

~And now we're stuck with Bob ... but maybe not quite as long as we think!~

I find it telling he's bailing the year BEFORE Avatar is, "supposedly", opening at DAK. He must either know it's gonna bomb, come in some neutured form, or not happen at all! Leave disaster behind, leave it for next guy ala Paul and Cynthia.

 

[WDW1974]

I will never understand how anyone can ever defend Eisner.

Well, I actually know the man ... beyond that people can look at what he accomplished and judge for themselves.

After Wells died he was insane. He did so many stupid things that included almost killing the relationship with Pixar. The only thing i can credit him is the smart move to merge with ABC/ESPN, which has worked out with ESPN being the greatest sports station and ABC being the best network station for the last 3-4 years.

He didn't kill the relationship with Pixar ... and it takes two to make a relationship and destroy one ... and John Lasseter and Steve 'Not a Saint Yet'
Jobs weren't the easiest to work with. Disney took a chance with Pixar and it paid off wonderfully. But nobody knew back in December of 1995 when Toy Story debutted just what the future held.

And Frank Wells was instrumental in Michael going forward and buying ABC/Cap Cities (which also brought along ESPN). ... And ABC has not been the top network for many moons. CBS has.

Iger is by far one of the best things to happen to Disney. Not only for the Pixar deal but with the Marvel deal. Someone up thread incorrectly said that Disney is still paying Paramount a ton with Avengers coming out and that is flat out wrong. Disney paid a couple years ago for the rights for the movie it is just that part of the Deal was that Paramount had their logo in the credits.

The Marvel deal is something no one can truly judge for many years because of the high price and complicated relationships it has with some of its top properties not being under its control.


As to Avengers, I think this explains the rights deal.
http://www.movieweb.com/news/the-avengers-gives-paramount-sole-marketing-placement

Paramount will get nine percent of gross receipts of both this and Iron Man 3 and will have their name on them, despite not paying a cent for marketing or distribution that returns to Disney. They also got a $115 million pay-off that doesn't just come from thin air.

~Give me a Wonder Woman flick!~

 

[WDW1974]

As long as everyone plays nicely the thread will stay - very interesting topic, BTW.

I always play nicely, if hard ...

Just curious since you removed my tag about Two Broke Girls, where they do utter that word MANY times in 23 minutes, and it's on in family time, but could I have used Oprah's 'vajayjay' or do we not mention lady parts at all here ...

~Jan may have had a point!:ROFLOL:~

 

[WDW1974]

Him and Ron Miller. Miller's legacy laid the groundwork for Michael and Frank and lasted well into 1986 with the opening of The Living Seas.

This is very true ... Ron was just turning the company around and doing so many things right ... things like EPCOT, TDL, The Disney Channel, Touchstone Pictures, WDW resort expansion were all either done on his time or started ... unfortunately, he just ran out of time and Disney needed a big time leader.

Eisner was that. There were folks that wanted to somehow keep Ron in some capacity and Michael and Frank would have none of that, and if I had been in their shoes, I would have made the same choice.

Remember, Disney was a total joke as an entertainment company as the 1980s began. And remember where Disney was when the 1990s began.

~Card Walker needs some credit too!~

 

[AvengersWDW]

Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, Tarzan, Fantastia 2000, Atlantis, DAK, Everest, the first Pirates, ________ Cook, the Treasure DVD line, the Platinum DVD line were AAAAAAAAAAAL insane?????

He wanted to ax most of that...if it was not for Roy Jr. and the great minds at the animation department none of that would of came thru...Rhodes brought us Everest...Eisner was insane and power hungry.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Well, I actually know the man ... beyond that people can look at what he accomplished and judge for themselves.



He didn't kill the relationship with Pixar ... and it takes two to make a relationship and destroy one ... and John Lasseter and Steve 'Not a Saint Yet'
Jobs weren't the easiest to work with. Disney took a chance with Pixar and it paid off wonderfully. But nobody knew back in December of 1995 when Toy Story debutted just what the future held.

And Frank Wells was instrumental in Michael going forward and buying ABC/Cap Cities (which also brought along ESPN). ... And ABC has not been the top network for many moons. CBS has.



The Marvel deal is something no one can truly judge for many years because of the high price and complicated relationships it has with some of its top properties not being under its control.


As to Avengers, I think this explains the rights deal.
http://www.movieweb.com/news/the-avengers-gives-paramount-sole-marketing-placement

Paramount will get nine percent of gross receipts of both this and Iron Man 3 and will have their name on them, despite not paying a cent for marketing or distribution that returns to Disney. They also got a $115 million pay-off that doesn't just come from thin air.

~Give me a Wonder Woman flick!~

Its good you know the man, maybe you should ask him why he was so vindictive and why he wanted to destroy Disney.

Actually he did. And yes Steve Jobs and John were saints. Eisner wanted to proverbally rape the characters that Pixar created without giving them a single shed of input. There is really no ifs, ands, or buts about the situation. Disney was 100% at fault and Eisner was the problem thus the forced resignation.

In terms of viewers ABC is not, but viewership does not equal quality and with CBS there is only one good show in How I met Your Mother, ABC kills them with quality thus why i and many others consider them the best network. Plus on certain days ABC beats CBS in ratings if you care about that type of thing.

Thank you for that source, i will review it with the sources i have that say otherwise to tell which is valid or not

 

[HMButler79]

Not saving 2-d animation? Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh say otherwise...your idol Eisner is the one who wanted to kill it.

Tangled is amazing, new technology is smart and the smart thing to do.

Sorry that you think that the company should not care for the whole family and you think it should only cater to YOU. But not one thing you said about him is bad.

Oh wait let's see. Frog WAS supposed to be the beginning of the Third Golden Age and what happened. It didn't perform to THIER standards, they freaked out, and now no more traditional animated fairy tales. Frog SHOULD have been a new beginning, but the accountants would not have it. And Pooh just BOMBED. PERIOD. Save 2-D? You don't save 2-D by releasing an animated movie the SAME WEEKEND as Deathly Hallows Part II. Pooh was sabatoged on purpose to kill 2-D once and for all.

 

[NoChesterHester]

Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules, Mulan, Tarzan, Fantastia 2000, Atlantis, DAK, Everest, the first Pirates, ________ Cook, the Treasure DVD line, the Platinum DVD line were AAAAAAAAAAAL insane?????

Wells died in April of 1994. Lots of great stuff for Parks and Resorts between then and the millennium too.

 

[wm49rs]

Tangled was a Disney movie??? I thought it was Shrek 5..........

I'm sure it was all the accents that threw you off....

 

[AvengersWDW]

Oh wait let's see. Frog WAS supposed to be the beginning of the Third Golden Age and what happened. It didn't perform to THIER standards, they freaked out, and now no more traditional animated fairy tales. Frog SHOULD have been a new beginning, but the accountants would not have it. And Pooh just BOMBED. PERIOD. Save 2-D? You don't save 2-D by releasing an animated movie the SAME WEEKEND as Deathly Hallows Part II. Pooh was sabatoged on purpose to kill 2-D once and for all.

They said that right now there may be no PRINCESSES for a while not that there will be no fairytales. Pooh far from bombed...it cost little to nothing to make and made back its cost. Please dont spout things that are not true.

People said it was stupid to release Captain America the weekend after but look at what happened, it dethroned Harry Potter.

 

[AvengersWDW]

Wells died in April of 1994. Lots of great stuff for Parks and Resorts between then and the millennium too.

I forgot how Tarzan and Atlantis were masterpieces and Tangled and Princess and the Frog were garbage....:brick:

 

[Tigger1988]

Tangled was a Disney movie??? I thought it was Shrek 5..........

You couldn't have made it anymore obvious that you didn't see the film. You're bordering on troll territory right now.

 

[Tigger1988]

And yes if Eisner and Circle 7 had their way TS3 would've been a direct to DVD film about Buzz being recalled to Taiwan.

 

[NoChesterHester]

I forgot how Tarzan and Atlantis were masterpieces and Tangled and Princess and the Frog were garbage....:brick:

Disney is more then animated movies. My post you quoted was in direct reference to the parks.

Go ahead, rant away.

 

[TalkingHead]

In terms of viewers ABC is not, but viewership does not equal quality and with CBS there is only one good show in How I met Your Mother, ABC kills them with quality thus why i and many others consider them the best network. Plus on certain days ABC beats CBS in ratings if you care about that type of thing.

That's rich. Since when has TWDC cared about quality? They only care about quality when it's spelled profit.