Disney wants control

[notslim99]

Could you clarify? You claimed he took the quote out of context. Educate us about the "real" meaning of the quote, then.

The quote is, "You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up anyway."

If Walt thought that adults needed Disney nightclubs, Disney bars, and other "adult" entertainment, then he would have just said the first sentence. He added that adults are grown up kids, meaning that the attractions should appeal to adults as well as kids. That's why many of us "emotionally fragile 8 year olds" love the rides, shows, and attractions at WDW as well as our kids. Am I completely out of left field here? I get so tired of people insinuating that because I don't frequent bars, nightclubs, and casinos and love "kiddie" rides at WDW, somehow I'm not an adult. It's mind-blowing.

 

[TalkingHead]

The quote is, "You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up anyway."

If Walt thought that adults needed Disney nightclubs, Disney bars, and other "adult" entertainment, then he would have just said the first sentence. He added that adults are grown up kids, meaning that the attractions should appeal to adults as well as kids. That's why many of us "emotionally fragile 8 year olds" love the rides, shows, and attractions at WDW as well as our kids. Am I completely out of left field here? I get so tired of people insinuating that because I don't frequent bars, nightclubs, and casinos and love "kiddie" rides at WDW, somehow I'm not an adult. It's mind-blowing.

I see. I suppose the question becomes should Disney include amenities and services and entertainment that appeals mainly to adults. (I think they should.)

But, more to the point, I object to Disney trying to influence what happens in other parts of the state. They may feel threatened by other developments in Central and South Florida, but then again, Florida doesn't exist for the sake of the Disney stockholders. The notion that they want to police what gets built in Miami is not surprising, but perfect evidence of corporate greed.

And this idea that Florida is "family friendly" is laughable. My recent visit to South Beach is proof that Florida tourism *thankfully* does not restrict itself to that puritanical label.

 

[c-one]

I agree that Walt's quote ought to be taken such that the experience should appeal to adults as well as children. But I'd argue that there's a difference between appealing to kids and appealing to kids at heart.

 

[notslim99]

I see. I suppose the question becomes should Disney include amenities and services and entertainment that appeals mainly to adults. (I think they should.)

But, more to the point, I object to Disney trying to influence what happens in other parts of the state. They may feel threatened by other developments in Central and South Florida, but then again, Florida doesn't exist for the sake of the Disney stockholders. The notion that they want to police what gets built in Miami is not surprising, but perfect evidence of corporate greed.

And this idea that Florida is "family friendly" is laughable. My recent visit to South Beach is proof that Florida tourism does not restrict itself to that puritanical label.

I agree, and have stated, that Disney should not worry about a casino 200+ miles away. I also agree that Disney should include amenities for adults, and they do. It's not an overwhelming majority, but Disney offers alcohol, DTD, the Food & Wine Festival, the Flower & Garden festival, etc. Adults are not left out. I agree that Disney does not control Florida. I agree that it's silly to think that Florida is "family friendly," but Disney is and should be "family friendly."

 

[WDW1974]

I was about to mention the resort lounges in this discussion as well... I recently stayed at the Boardwalk and came back with a similar feeling about the Bellevue Lounge as you did. I was there twice and it was actually something I was looking forward to before my trip because I think it is a beautiful space. But somehow it did not feel like a truly inviting place, more like a "counter service" variation of what I would expect in a deluxe resort as a lounge.

And I was very disappointed with the Tambu lounge at the Poly as well. This seems to have turned into nothing else than a waiting room for Ohana. It is even set up so that the check in desk for Ohana is now on the other side of the lounge than the restaurant itself. We were at the Poly eating dinner at Kona and intended to stay at the resort for watching the fireworks afterwards. But the Tambu lounge felt so unwelcoming that we really did not want to sit around there. It was full of tired looking families waiting for their Ohana reservation...

If I were staying at Disney's second most expensive resort I would expect a place where one feels welcome to relax with a drink (or even a coffee or something without alcohol)... The DLH just got this really cool bar recently, why does the Poly not have something like this??

It really is just little things like this which I am missing with regard to more "adult oriented entertainment"!

Yes, the only good thing I can say about the Belle Vue was that I enjoyed the people I was with -- not the drinks!

I did notice the new setup at Tambu, but didn't drink there (I usually pay it a visit on my trips) ... but they really are making it into a waiting area for 'Ohana and -- I really don't care how this sounds -- I really don't want screaming brats running around me when I'm trying to enjoy an adult beverage and an adult conversation. Disney or not, a bar is a bar ...

The Walmarting and catering to the Mommy Bloggers continues.:hurl::hurl::hurl:

~GFC~

 

[muse1983]

The F&W festival is without a doubt one of the most adult friendly events at WDW and arguably the most alcohol friendly event. That being said, I felt as though I was at a frat party the majority of the time we were at the festival this year. From witnessing people passing out in the bathrooms to a group of guys urging their drunken,passed out friend who's head was literally halfway in the toilet to " Fu***** hurl some more motherf***** so we can go get drunk some more", this was while children were coming in and out of the bathroom. I watched as a middle aged woman in a dress basically fell flat on her face with a full glass of wine in her hand while her husband and friends laughed at how "wasted" she was. So just from this short experience what else am I led to believe if I were to imagine Disney to become a more alcohol friendly "adult" destination? If "adults" truly acted like responsible adults then the issue would be more relaxed but until then I prefer my favorite destination to keep the current atmosphere of family friendliness.

 

[WDW1974]

I had to laugh at the fact that your inane drivel is so predictable that Muse1983 knew to change his tag quote because you would, predictably, take it out of context and use it as ammo. I've done a little post research on you, WDW1974, and it is clear that you have a lot of fun being very negative towards WDW. That, in and of itself, is enough to discount what you post.

And here I was hoping that my drivel was ane. Oh well.:ROFLOL:

I did what anyone with common sense having an intelligent adult discussion would do and pointed out the contradiction. It wasn't used out of context. Those who would try and extrapolate it to a casino debate or nightclub debate might be ... the statement stands on its own as Walt was NOT interested in aiming his entertainment squarely at CHILDREN.

And should I feel important that you researched my posts? (I don't think Steve pays me by the number of reads I get!)

As to being negative toward WDW discounting what I post, why would that be? Is WDW some religion? Some sacred cow? It can't be criticized when deserving? Are you one of the online folks who use it for something missing in their own lives or to relive a childhood that never was and never will be?

A lot of fans really scare me with their unending support for anything Disney does ... like members of a cult!

No one is denying that Disney's energy would be better spent elsewhere than trying to thwart a casino 200 miles away. The thought that WDW is anything other than a "Family First" destination shows no shred of understanding of the park or Walt Disney himself.

Really? 'cause I got the idea that some people think Disney should be spending money to fight against jobs in another part of my state.

And WDW is a destination for all ... not only families ... and families take many different forms today (this isn't the 1950s TV shows you see while dining at 50s Primetime).

Oh, and trust me, you don't wanna play the 'I know more about Walt and the Disney Co and what they wanted than you do' card ... really.:drevil:

~GFC~

 

[lt94]

A poster gave us an idea about Walt having a drink or a smoke he's right on . I can say I have shared a drink with Roy Disney when he was alive you could find him at the lounge/bar at the wilderness lodge around 3 in the afternoon He would say this was his quiet time . he would have a few drinks and leave I think this is what we are talking about on this forum. Just some place to go no gambling a lower noise level with little responsibility . Everyone can do what they want with their time but I would like a choice of what to do

 

[devoy1701]

The quote is, "You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up anyway."

If Walt thought that adults needed Disney nightclubs, Disney bars, and other "adult" entertainment, then he would have just said the first sentence. He added that adults are grown up kids, meaning that the attractions should appeal to adults as well as kids. That's why many of us "emotionally fragile 8 year olds" love the rides, shows, and attractions at WDW as well as our kids. Am I completely out of left field here? I get so tired of people insinuating that because I don't frequent bars, nightclubs, and casinos and love "kiddie" rides at WDW, somehow I'm not an adult. It's mind-blowing.

You do realize that it's not a matter of who is interpretting the quote rightly or wrongly... You can spin practically any quote from history to go one way or another.

I personally take the quote as meaning you don't aim/target your product to just kids. You need to appeal to adults as well (perhaps even moreso since kids don't have spending power???). I don't take it to mean that all offerings need to be universally enjoyed by both kids and adults (because face it, adults are looking for universally enjoyable entertainment ALL of the time) but that you should have offerings available for both kids and adults. In fact the originally Mickey shorts were pretty vaudeville/mischivous and not direct at children.

The theme parks (Disneyland specifically) was designed as a place where parents and adults can have fun together. But it doesn't mean (and wasn't/isn't the intention for) all areas of the resorts to be family oriented as well.

 

[WDW1974]

The quote is, "You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up anyway."

If Walt thought that adults needed Disney nightclubs, Disney bars, and other "adult" entertainment, then he would have just said the first sentence. He added that adults are grown up kids, meaning that the attractions should appeal to adults as well as kids. That's why many of us "emotionally fragile 8 year olds" love the rides, shows, and attractions at WDW as well as our kids. Am I completely out of left field here? I get so tired of people insinuating that because I don't frequent bars, nightclubs, and casinos and love "kiddie" rides at WDW, somehow I'm not an adult. It's mind-blowing.

Again, you're taking what he said out of context. He was speaking of his entertainment (I believe films at said time he was quoted). He wasn't talking about whether a resort he was dead for most of the planning and construction should have bars and adult venues. Obviously, his brother and the people closest to him in the Disney organization did what they thought Walt would do. No booze in the MK. Adult venues in the resort destination as a whole.

It sounds like you are taking the whole issue a little personally. Are you one of the adults who used to visit PI and didn't buy alcohol because it was the devil's juice :fork:? Or you just never developed a taste for the stuff?

Or you just like riding Dumbo and Snow White?

~GFC~

 

[Timekeeper]

I see. I suppose the question becomes should Disney include amenities and services and entertainment that appeals mainly to adults. (I think they should.)

Has anyone brought up, for comparison, the amenities and entertainment that appeals mainly to adults that Disney incorporated into their cruise ships? :shrug:

 

[WDW1974]

I see. I suppose the question becomes should Disney include amenities and services and entertainment that appeals mainly to adults. (I think they should.)

But, more to the point, I object to Disney trying to influence what happens in other parts of the state. They may feel threatened by other developments in Central and South Florida, but then again, Florida doesn't exist for the sake of the Disney stockholders. The notion that they want to police what gets built in Miami is not surprising, but perfect evidence of corporate greed.

Exactly. This is Disney protecting its turf, no matter what is best for Florida's citizens ... people that lives hundreds of miles from those Pixie Dusted arches.

And this idea that Florida is "family friendly" is laughable. My recent visit to South Beach is proof that Florida tourism *thankfully* does not restrict itself to that puritanical label.

Nope. Nothing puratanical about SoBe. ... Thankfully Disney doesn't run the entire state or we wouldn't have the wonder that is Haulover Beach (image nude bathing ... so scary to so many!!!:ROFLOL::drevil

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

The F&W festival is without a doubt one of the most adult friendly events at WDW and arguably the most alcohol friendly event. That being said, I felt as though I was at a frat party the majority of the time we were at the festival this year. From witnessing people passing out in the bathrooms to a group of guys urging their drunken,passed out friend who's head was literally halfway in the toilet to " Fu***** hurl some more motherf***** so we can go get drunk some more", this was while children were coming in and out of the bathroom. I watched as a middle aged woman in a dress basically fell flat on her face with a full glass of wine in her hand while her husband and friends laughed at how "wasted" she was. So just from this short experience what else am I led to believe if I were to imagine Disney to become a more alcohol friendly "adult" destination? If "adults" truly acted like responsible adults then the issue would be more relaxed but until then I prefer my favorite destination to keep the current atmosphere of family friendliness.

I am trying to figure out how this became a discussion on Disney becoming a more 'alcohol friendly place' ...

I have often witnessed boorish behavior like what you saw at WDW (often with alcohol not even part of the equation).

The short answer about drunks during Food and Wine is that Disney encourages it. All you have to do is see how much money they rake in during the event to understand all they care about is the bottom line. There are guests who need to be cut off ... and in some cases escorted out. But Disney generally lets a lot go because it is more interested in money.

So I do get a kick out of seeing so many hear claim that Disney is only interested in being family friendly ... seeing obnoxious people who can't control their booze being fools isn't something I particularly enjoy anymore than a visit to the Jon Benet Boutique in Cindy's Castle and DVC Resort!

~GFC~

 

[devoy1701]

And here I was hoping that my drivel was ane. Oh well.:ROFLOL:

I did what anyone with common sense having an intelligent adult discussion would do and pointed out the contradiction. It wasn't used out of context. Those who would try and extrapolate it to a casino debate or nightclub debate might be ... the statement stands on its own as Walt was NOT interested in aiming his entertainment squarely at CHILDREN.

And should I feel important that you researched my posts? (I don't think Steve pays me by the number of reads I get!)

As to being negative toward WDW discounting what I post, why would that be? Is WDW some religion? Some sacred cow? It can't be criticized when deserving? Are you one of the online folks who use it for something missing in their own lives or to relive a childhood that never was and never will be?

A lot of fans really scare me with their unending support for anything Disney does ... like members of a cult!



Really? 'cause I got the idea that some people think Disney should be spending money to fight against jobs in another part of my state.

And WDW is a destination for all ... not only families ... and families take many different forms today (this isn't the 1950s TV shows you see while dining at 50s Primetime).

Oh, and trust me, you don't wanna play the 'I know more about Walt and the Disney Co and what they wanted than you do' card ... really.:drevil:

~GFC~

We all start out hating you '74. Funny how that works.

 

[notslim99]

the statement stands on its own as Walt was NOT interested in aiming his entertainment squarely at CHILDREN.

Exactly, he wanted the attractions and rides themselves to appeal to adults, and they do.

And should I feel important that you researched my posts? (I don't think Steve pays me by the number of reads I get!)

No. I just can't gather why a person who posts that he finds little to no entertainment at WDW suitable for his adult tastes would bother even being a member of a WDW board.

As to being negative toward WDW discounting what I post, why would that be? Is WDW some religion? Some sacred cow? It can't be criticized when deserving? Are you one of the online folks who use it for something missing in their own lives or to relive a childhood that never was and never will be?

It does discount you because you have some sort of disdain for WDW that you haven't fully explained. Are you one of the online folks who had some traumatic childhood experience at WDW? Did Winnie the Pooh not sign your autograph book or something?

A lot of fans really scare me with their unending support for anything Disney does ... like members of a cult!

If you're scared of Disney fans, then sir, you have deeper issues.

And WDW is a destination for all ... not only families ... and families take many different forms today (this isn't the 1950s TV shows you see while dining at 50s Primetime).

It is a destination for all, but that doesn't mean it's not "family friendly." That means your experience will be absent of passed out drunks stumbling past you on their way to get more beer.

Oh, and trust me, you don't wanna play the 'I know more about Walt and the Disney Co and what they wanted than you do' card ... really.:drevil:

No trivia challenge here.

 

[notslim99]

Again, you're taking what he said out of context. He was speaking of his entertainment (I believe films at said time he was quoted). He wasn't talking about whether a resort he was dead for most of the planning and construction should have bars and adult venues. Obviously, his brother and the people closest to him in the Disney organization did what they thought Walt would do. No booze in the MK. Adult venues in the resort destination as a whole.

It sounds like you are taking the whole issue a little personally. Are you one of the adults who used to visit PI and didn't buy alcohol because it was the devil's juice :fork:? Or you just never developed a taste for the stuff?

Or you just like riding Dumbo and Snow White?

~GFC~

I like the taste of a good microbrew, but God help me if I ever get to the point where I cannot enjoy myself without alcohol.

And yes, I love Dumbo and Snow White. I never miss them.

 

[maxairmike]

Funny '74 should bring up not being a fan of alcohol factoring into a person's position on the issue (note I'm not disagreeing with you, '74, just kind of expanding).

I personally am not a drinker, I've had half of a drink in the year and a half I've been legal and couldn't finish it. Yet, I thoroughly enjoy adult options like bars and lounges/clubs. I wish they had more of them around the resort, of better quality to boot. They're generally either quiet and relaxing, or if they're louder, the noise is content of "adult" interest. Oh, and I also appreciate not having to drive up I-4, or away from property in general when I'm already there to enjoy a variety of adult options.

There are certain types of venues that lend themselves to idiotic and negative drunken behavior, and it seems PI (likely Mannequins' in large part) had at least a few of those kinds of places, but also appropriate adult options. Thankfully the simple resort lounges haven't been completely killed, and Boardwalk has survived the "purge." Bring back some of the other options, though, because believe it or not, I could use more variety. As much as I love music, I won't subject my ears to the over-driven speakers at Jellyrolls every night, my favorite adult option at the World.

Oh, I'm also "that guy" that every bar tender hates since I'm not a drinker. :lol:

Now, all that said, I'm not surprised at Disney butting in here to save some market share, but the Florida Chamber of Commerce (or whatever group this is) should say thanks but no thanks and move on with the developments in South Florida if they feel they're needed.

 

[lt94]

Back to the forum main issue Disney is flexing its money muscle in the State they are throwing money at the chamber of commerce and state goverment to not allow other other large players in the state by saying more gambling is not needed it's a family state . I think it's called the Sunshine State by the way. The article from orlando sentinal was about what might happen and how disney may lose out and cut into their profits. Universal had higher numbers than disney. Im sure Disney never thought universal would cut into Disney profits so Disney now wants to sway or prevent any more players in the state

 

[Timekeeper]

Is anyone else reminded of the high speed rail issues all over again?:brick:

 

[Monty]

We all start out hating you '74. Funny how that works.

Never hated... Despaired for perhaps. That such a seemingly intelligent person could be so extremely negative and insist on trying to drag others who don't share his twisted opinion down do his level of desolation is pitiable... But certainly not worthy of wasting hatred on.

~OCS~