Disney wants control

[Zummi Gummi]

I think I just entered the Twilight Zone...are we really complaining because Disney doesn't offer more nightclubs and alcohol....ever think that's why a huge majority of people LOVE WDW? It sounds like you are simply going to the wrong place on vacation, Universal is 20 minutes away :wave:

NO ONE stated that WDW needs to build more nightclubs or serve more booze. The fact of the matter is when the parks close early, there is nothing to do after about 11 PM when Downtown Disney shuts down.

Not everyone likes to be tucked into bed before midnight.

And why try to make this into a Disney vs. Universal thing, when again, no one stated that but you.

 

[muse1983]

NO ONE stated that WDW needs to build more nightclubs or serve more booze. The fact of the matter is when the parks close early, there is nothing to do after about 11 PM when Downtown Disney shuts down.

Not everyone likes to be tucked into bed before midnight.

And why try to make this into a Disney vs. Universal thing, when again, no one stated that but you.

When it seems like the vast majority of all your wants and needs could be met at Universal it was merely a suggestion. What exactly would you suggest Disney offer after 11pm?

And C-One that seemed to be your initial complaint
"If you don't want to go to nightclubs -- great! No one will make you go. But some people who like to go to Disney World also like to go to nightclubs and stay up late and drink beers (responsibly!). By ignoring that crowd, Disney is driving a demographic away from WDW. Oh well. Their loss."
Are you not complaining that WDW needed more nightclubs and alcohol?

 

[surfsupdon]

Disney needs more to catch the 21--35ish crowd.

They haven't pushed ads for anybody without kids in YEARS!

Remember the old commercials showing it as a DESTINATION--parks, golf, relaxation, water sports, nightlife, characters.

Now it is all characters and kids. Bring your kids NOW or deprive them.

 

[muse1983]

Disney needs more to catch the 21--35ish crowd.

They haven't pushed ads for anybody without kids in YEARS!

Remember the old commercials showing it as a DESTINATION--parks, golf, relaxation, water sports, nightlife, characters.

Now it is all characters and kids. Bring your kids NOW or deprive them.

Maybe it's because WDW has never had an issue with "catching" me but I will never be able to wrap my head around some of the negativity towards the resort. At the same time I realize not everyone is like me, people like different things but at the same time I find it unreasonable to expect certain things out of a family environment. WDW will continue (whether my wife and I have kids or not) to captivate and have us counting down the seconds to go back for a very long time to come. But that's my opinion, an opinion among thousands. So we're a complete 180 here and that works for me, we will agree to completely disagree. Cheers :wave:

 

[notslim99]

Here's a better idea: Disney World should have more to do for the 21-35 set and families who don't have kids.

I'm new to this thread, so let me try to wrap my brain around this. People have a problem with Disney's entertainment offerings for kidless 20-30 somethings? Could we be a little more specific, because I am 30 and my wife is 31. We have been to WDW with and without our son. When my wife and I travelled to WDW by ourselves, we never ran out of entertainment options. I don't understand what can be improved to enhance the experience of adults without kids. Am I completely off base here?

Side note: I live in Bossier City, LA, and believe me, the casinos do nothing good for any community. They are smoky, flashy, depressing places where many of the patrons spend their paycheck in about 30 minutes. Trust me when I say that, unless you go to Vegas, you want no part of any casino.

 

[c-one]

When it seems like the vast majority of all your wants and needs could be met at Universal it was merely a suggestion. What exactly would you suggest Disney offer after 11pm?

And C-One that seemed to be your initial complaint
"If you don't want to go to nightclubs -- great! No one will make you go. But some people who like to go to Disney World also like to go to nightclubs and stay up late and drink beers (responsibly!). By ignoring that crowd, Disney is driving a demographic away from WDW. Oh well. Their loss."
Are you not complaining that WDW needed more nightclubs and alcohol?

It's not my main thesis. That was more a response to those of you who seemed incredulous that adults would find WDW lacking. Yes, I would like it if there was a good beer bar at WDW, if that's what you're asking. (Big River doesn't cut the mustard -- Gorton Biersch establishments are the Applebee's of brewpubs. But I digress.) I actually never went to the dance clubs at Pleasure Island. Comedy clubs, occasionally. But I'm not into nightclubs. I think WDW should have a few, though, because lots of people who do or would go to WDW do like nightclubs.

Here's the thing -- I don't think there's enough for 20- and 30-something professional types without kids. Nightclubs would be good, for people who like them. Yes, I agree that there needs to be more to do late at night. Personally, I like to go to bars for a few craft beers and good conversation, whether I'm on vacation or not. So that's nice.

But that's not why I came to this thread. It's the other stuff that I feel is lacking. I fear the nice sit-down meals are being marginalized (I have no desire for character dining, thanks). I think WDW needs to pay a renewed attention to other recreation opportunities besides the parks on-property. (That's why I started that bike trails thread a few weeks ago.) I feel like there used to be more of that -- anyone remember the pre-AK Discovery Island?

All of Disney's new investments are driven by characters and cartoons. THAT'S the problem. It is, as WDW1974 said, appealing to the mommy bloggers. It wasn't always like it was today! I can remember it! The past 10 years have seen a hard turn towards the family-with-young-kids crowd. Maybe it's nostalgia in my mind, but judging by this thread I'm not alone.

The recreation is getting stale. The shopping is hardly world-class. I fear the food is next. But who knows! I have high hopes for the bowling alley at DTD West Side. And I'm hoping whatever happens at Pleasure Island is good too -- and I do think something that ISN'T all nightclubs could be an improvement.

 

[notslim99]

It's not my main thesis. That was more a response to those of you who seemed incredulous that adults would find WDW lacking. Yes, I would like it if there was a good beer bar at WDW, if that's what you're asking. (Big River doesn't cut the mustard -- Gorton Biersch establishments are the Applebee's of brewpubs. But I digress.) I actually never went to the dance clubs at Pleasure Island. Comedy clubs, occasionally. But I'm not into nightclubs. I think WDW should have a few, though, because lots of people who do or would go to WDW do like nightclubs.

Here's the thing -- I don't think there's enough for 20- and 30-something professional types without kids. Nightclubs would be good, for people who like them. Yes, I agree that there needs to be more to do late at night. Personally, I like to go to bars for a few craft beers and good conversation, whether I'm on vacation or not. So that's nice.

I want to preface my response to say that I, in no way, mean to be condescending, but I wonder why WDW needs to do all of the things you've listed. The Orlando area has many of the brewpubs, clubs, and bars that you would like. WDW is a theme park with an aim at the child in all of us. If you want to supplement your trip with other activities, maybe you should explore other entertainment avenues in the Orlando area that cater to the more adult side of things.

 

[Monty]

Yes, look at a guidemap/book from WDW's first 25-30 years and compare it to now (especially the 70s and 80s). Forget about the fact everything (and everyone) looks classier. But look at how WDW is marketed as The Vacation Kingdom of the World, not The Timeshare Tooned Pinned Plushed Vinyled TurkeyLegged ECV Double Wide Stroller Outletmall Kingdom of the World.

Yep. WDW has done and gone been Walmarted.

And folks here complain about drunks at Food and Wine (btw, they aren't all or even mostly locals ... boorish drunks come in all demos -- sorry realize this is from another thread but it belongs here too!)

Anyway, all those older materials will show you that WDW wasn't simply a children's park (or parks) ... that activities were available for ALL ages and ALL families and types. From horseback riding to boating to shopping (for items that weren't Disney BRANDED) to dining and DRINKING adult beverages in ADULT locales etc ...

One of WDW's many issues is that everything is being run so it will appeal to an emotionally fragile eight-year-old or it gets tossed aside.

A bigger issue is that Disney's grand startegy for Walmarting the World comes from kissing up to INSIGINIFICANT Mommy Bloggers that Disney's Social Media Dept (and consultants) have identified as the most important sounding board for what is and isn't important to folks who take MAGICal WDW vacations. That is why we are getting everything from RFID apps to the expanding DDP to tooned rooms taking over THEMED resorts. It's all what some Mommy Blogger in Ohio says is important to her and her circle that she blogs to, that Disney's Social Media Dept kisses up to because their six and seven figure a year consultants tell them 'Mommies make all the vacation choices and decide where the $$$ goes ... YOU MUST MAKE THEM HAPPY!' ... as to the folks you make unhappy, you look them in the eye, tell them how much you care about thir concerns and send them on their way with a 'Have a MAGICal Day!':hurl:

This really is what is ruining WDW right now. It's like the 800-pound gorilla. (any gorilla smileys?)

You want to affect positive change at WDW? Become a Mommy Blogger and start writing 180 degrees from what all the others are saying ... although you won't get free trips and swag by doing so ... and Disney might place you on its 'naughty' list.:xmas:

~GFC~

Seems I've become an emotionally fragile eight-year-old...

I guess if it doesn't appeal to you it can't possibly appeal to anyone?

~OCS~

 

[c-one]

I want to preface my response to say that I, in no way, mean to be condescending, but I wonder why WDW needs to do all of the things you've listed. The Orlando area has many of the brewpubs, clubs, and bars that you would like. WDW is a theme park with an aim at the child in all of us. If you want to supplement your trip with other activities, maybe you should explore other entertainment avenues in the Orlando area that cater to the more adult side of things.

I could...but I hate renting cars and public transit in Orlando sucks. Plus, I don't find Orlando as a city very fun. When I go to Orlando for vacation, I'm going to WDW, and/or maybe Universal and SeaWorld. I never hang out in the city. For an urban vacation, I prefer New York or Montreal or San Francisco, etc.

I don't think I'm asking Disney to change what it is. Not asking them to plop down a casino of their own, for one. What I'm saying is is that the changes in the Disney experience over the past 15 years are kind of alienating me. I feel like I'm not a target market anymore. And instead of posturing to stop developments in South Florida that WOULD potentially target me, I think Disney should do more to earn my dollar (or more of my dollars, as the case may be). Disney knows it would lose business to South Florida casinos because it's not doing a good enough job catering to that market, and it would rather block competition than improve its own offerings. And again, that does not mean Disney needs to build a casino...

 

[Zummi Gummi]

I could...but I hate renting cars and public transit in Orlando sucks. Plus, I don't find Orlando as a city very fun. When I go to Orlando for vacation, I'm going to WDW, and/or maybe Universal and SeaWorld. I never hang out in the city. For an urban vacation, I prefer New York or Montreal or San Francisco, etc.

I don't think I'm asking Disney to change what it is. Not asking them to plop down a casino of their own, for one. What I'm saying is is that the changes in the Disney experience over the past 15 years are kind of alienating me. I feel like I'm not a target market anymore. And instead of posturing to stop developments in South Florida that WOULD potentially target me, I think Disney should do more to earn my dollar (or more of my dollars, as the case may be). Disney knows it would lose business to South Florida casinos because it's not doing a good enough job catering to that market, and it would rather block competition than improve its own offerings. And again, that does not mean Disney needs to build a casino...

Thank you for continuing to say much more succinctly what I've been trying to say.

 

[kucarachi]

who is sitting at home debating about slot machines or space mountain for a vacation? If disney doesnt want to lose consumers...then maybe they should start thinking more about them, instead of getting rid of the late night monorails for one. Basically making your extra magic hours at the magic kingdom or epcot seem less magical because you have to fold your stroller and tired kids up onto a bus at 2 am...thanks alot for that.

I feel like there tv programming as well has become rather hodgepodged together on disney jr. and they just throw shows that sell a few toys at you at random times. Its ridiculous as is the quality of some of the DVC resorts. We have a place at bay lake towers and half the doors do not close the whole way...on purpose mind you...so you have to go to the bathroom or take a shower knowing that anyone can walk by and look in through the giant gaps!! We called this in to maintenance and were told it was the design! boo to your tom peepery mr mouse!

 

[lt94]

Going back in time for me when going to Disney every Hotel had some type of lounge or bar ie poly had a lounge downstairs now its a art gallery this was some place at the end of the day after a busy day at the parks you could go to sit relax listen to a live person perform gutar and chill not all guest want to party hard just have a place to go also Calf grill use to have a stage for dinner shows now all gone. look at POR 3 times a week they have a panio person come to bar and play and if your not there early you don't get a seat this shows it's still needed. Casinos will provide a differnt adult vacation to see shows and preformers that we can relate to Disney has given and we have to take what they give

 

[rob0519]

NO ONE stated that WDW needs to build more nightclubs or serve more booze. The fact of the matter is when the parks close early, there is nothing to do after about 11 PM when Downtown Disney shuts down.

Not everyone likes to be tucked into bed before midnight.

And why try to make this into a Disney vs. Universal thing, when again, no one stated that but you.

Well, there have been references to Pleasure Island which was nightclubs and booze in this thread. While a number of people have stated there needs to be more for the 21-35 childless demographic to do after 11:00 pm, no one has posted even one idea as to what kind(s) of activity that could be. Does anyone have any ideas that would appeal to adults that does not include, nightclubs, bars, alcoholor gambling?

 

[SMS55]

Pleasure Isla-oh wait never mind.....:brick:

Agree with you and the guy above you. Disney made a mistake to remove P.I. and it does very little to market itself to young adults. Most of my friends in their 20's were going to Universal and not now that they have kids are coming back to Disney. Yes it's about families, but they also make a half assed attempt to appeal to young couples and young crowds. They advertise as a place to get married, and that there is some adult stuff to do. You have some restaurants that are not kid friendly. Well removing P.I. removed some of the options for young adults. I know that it appealed to the 18-24 crowd and that was usually like on Thursdays, but they could have kept an adult theme, of some clubs, restaurants and other types of entertainment to appeal to adults. Some families go with parents or inlaws and the parents leave the kiddies sleeping under the spervision of grandma and grandpa so they can get some quality time.
They talk about Florida being about families, but I don't think they really understand South Florida. Miami is a party town. The clubs are open and serve alcohol til 5am and some have 24 hour liquor licenses. I partied like a rock star from the time I was 15 through most of my 20's. It is too easy in this town to get in trouble. Pardon the language and I don't mena to offend anyone but a typical south florida weekend can be summed up by "boats and hoes."

 

[SMS55]

NO ONE stated that WDW needs to build more nightclubs or serve more booze. The fact of the matter is when the parks close early, there is nothing to do after about 11 PM when Downtown Disney shuts down.

Not everyone likes to be tucked into bed before midnight.

And why try to make this into a Disney vs. Universal thing, when again, no one stated that but you.

Keep in mind that Universal does advertise itself as being more grown up fun and in their advertising ask you if "fairy tales and pixy dust are not your thing?" So I think he does have a point. Universal might be targeting more that young adult crowd that Disney isn't really chasing.

 

[SMS55]

I want to preface my response to say that I, in no way, mean to be condescending, but I wonder why WDW needs to do all of the things you've listed. The Orlando area has many of the brewpubs, clubs, and bars that you would like. WDW is a theme park with an aim at the child in all of us. If you want to supplement your trip with other activities, maybe you should explore other entertainment avenues in the Orlando area that cater to the more adult side of things.

But how do you get there? I live in Miami, so I drive and do go off property for meals and other activities, but how many people fly in? Many of those people are shuttled to Disney property by Disney's own buses and stay there their entire time relying on Disney transportation. They would need a car rental to go anywhere off property. Sometimes those adults are looking for adult activities.
Remember we here are Disney fanatics, but there are alot of people that go to Disney strictly for their kids. They have no interest in Disney and consider it strictly a kids place. Disney would be appealing to that crowd which is bigger than we might expect. That crowd would be more willing to come back regularly if some of those adults have some more adult friendly locations on property.

 

[notslim99]

I could...but I hate renting cars and public transit in Orlando sucks. Plus, I don't find Orlando as a city very fun. When I go to Orlando for vacation, I'm going to WDW, and/or maybe Universal and SeaWorld. I never hang out in the city. For an urban vacation, I prefer New York or Montreal or San Francisco, etc.

I don't think I'm asking Disney to change what it is. Not asking them to plop down a casino of their own, for one. What I'm saying is is that the changes in the Disney experience over the past 15 years are kind of alienating me. I feel like I'm not a target market anymore. And instead of posturing to stop developments in South Florida that WOULD potentially target me, I think Disney should do more to earn my dollar (or more of my dollars, as the case may be). Disney knows it would lose business to South Florida casinos because it's not doing a good enough job catering to that market, and it would rather block competition than improve its own offerings. And again, that does not mean Disney needs to build a casino...

I get what you're saying, but I think first of all we need to establish what our definition of Disney is. My definition is that WDW is a place of fantasy, imagination, and wonderment that acts as an oasis or escape from the everyday. My definition of the everyday is going to clubs, bars, and casinos where imagination and wonderment are non-existent. I'm just saying, if you need "adult style" entertainment, then there are other offerings, and I don't think Disney needs to provide those outlets. Should they care about a casino in South Florida? Probably not. I think they are wasting effort to oppose it, and I think the energy used to oppose the casino would be better spent elsewhere.

 

[prberk]

But that's not why I came to this thread. It's the other stuff that I feel is lacking. I fear the nice sit-down meals are being marginalized (I have no desire for character dining, thanks). I think WDW needs to pay a renewed attention to other recreation opportunities besides the parks on-property. (That's why I started that bike trails thread a few weeks ago.) I feel like there used to be more of that -- anyone remember the pre-AK Discovery Island?

All of Disney's new investments are driven by characters and cartoons. THAT'S the problem. It is, as WDW1974 said, appealing to the mommy bloggers. It wasn't always like it was today! I can remember it! The past 10 years have seen a hard turn towards the family-with-young-kids crowd. Maybe it's nostalgia in my mind, but judging by this thread I'm not alone.

The recreation is getting stale. The shopping is hardly world-class. I fear the food is next. But who knows! I have high hopes for the bowling alley at DTD West Side. And I'm hoping whatever happens at Pleasure Island is good too -- and I do think something that ISN'T all nightclubs could be an improvement.

I cannot agree more. The kiddie stuff is wonderful, but I fell in love with WDW for the idea of full recreation that it offered. When I was little (the '70s), they even had professional waterskiers with shows that you could watch from the beaches of the resorts along the Seven Seas Lagoon. (Anyone remember seeing Goofy ski among the professionals on the ramps, and in formation?) Goofy, of couse, was not the point -- but an add-on to an entertainment offering that took advantage of the beautiful locale and the natural place that Florida lakes make for waterskiing.

The resort shops should be interesting and open late, as should Downtown Disney. Most people are at the parks during the day, and by the time they get to Downtown Disney at night these days it is shutting down. Many times I have seen throngs of crowds outside World of Disney or other shops willing to go in at 11 p.m. or later, but they are closed or closing.

But even during the day, non-park experiences should be vacation-oriented, and take advantage of more than just kiddie experiences. Fishing, for example, should not cost an arm and a leg; and there is NO reason why you should not be able to fish with your own poles anywhere. Fort Wilderness trading posts would actually be more in theme if they had handpainted signs out front offering nightcrawlers for sale.

And finally, the food. It wasn't too long ago that the Food Network and Travel Channel and other venues were touting WDW's world-class food experiences. They were right.

Now, that is eroding. That is a shame. One of the things that was awesome about WDW's food offerings was that everyone could be satisfied -- you could get a burger, or a character meal buffet, or a very nice experience trying something authentic and new (with no characters to be found). All worth having, and helping WDW to be the wonderful place to visit that it used to be for everyone in the family it hopes to attract. And should still be.

Paul

 

[notslim99]

But how do you get there? I live in Miami, so I drive and do go off property for meals and other activities, but how many people fly in? Many of those people are shuttled to Disney property by Disney's own buses and stay there their entire time relying on Disney transportation. They would need a car rental to go anywhere off property. Sometimes those adults are looking for adult activities.
Remember we here are Disney fanatics, but there are alot of people that go to Disney strictly for their kids. They have no interest in Disney and consider it strictly a kids place. Disney would be appealing to that crowd which is bigger than we might expect. That crowd would be more willing to come back regularly if some of those adults have some more adult friendly locations on property.

We have to define "Adult friendly locations." If it takes "Adult friendly locations" to enjoy Disney, then maybe those people should find another place.

 

[muse1983]

We have to define "Adult friendly locations." If it takes "Adult friendly locations" to enjoy Disney, then maybe those people should find another place.

EXACTLY...if the argument is that WDW should provide a more diverse selection of activities without strictly going back to "adult friendly locations" which can be defined in todays society as nightclubs, bars and casinos then that's fine. I feel there is almost a stigma against adults who simply can't understand why someone would suddenly have this instinctive urge to go clubbing or find the nearest pub once the sun sets, especially when you're in WDW....But like I said if the initial argument is incorporating more adult activities (more restaurant choices etc) which still fall into the WDW friendly environment, by all means have at it.