Disney wants control

[Rosso11]

A good friend if mine runs IT conventions across the country. They always had a large show every year down in Disney. I was talking to him the other day and he mentioned they were no longer having their shows at Disney. I was really surprised since they have been going down there for so many years. He said they didn't want to deal with any more complaints that there was nothing to do at night. Ever since they closed PI the convention has seen a drastic down turn in attendance. These shows a large percentage of Disneys profits. They make tons of money off of these shows. If this isn't an isolated incident and is a trend of these shows and conventions leaving Disney then I see Disney finally doing something about the lack of adult entertainment at night.

 

[SMS55]

We have to define "Adult friendly locations." If it takes "Adult friendly locations" to enjoy Disney, then maybe those people should find another place.

But that's my point. They aren't enjoying Disney. The only reason they are there is for their kids. They didn't go for themselves. I know it's hard for us as Disney fanatics to rationalize that but it's reality. Give those people a little something to do when the kiddies go to bed. Those activities will be another source of revenue and they are more likely to come back in the future. You don't have to have the gambling, I realize that gambling might have a very negative stigma but some nightclubs, bars, adult only restaurants are pretty simple things for adults. Why then offer wedding services and honeymoon suites if you don't have adult things to do?

 

[c-one]

I get what you're saying, but I think first of all we need to establish what our definition of Disney is. My definition is that WDW is a place of fantasy, imagination, and wonderment that acts as an oasis or escape from the everyday. My definition of the everyday is going to clubs, bars, and casinos where imagination and wonderment are non-existent. I'm just saying, if you need "adult style" entertainment, then there are other offerings, and I don't think Disney needs to provide those outlets. Should they care about a casino in South Florida? Probably not. I think they are wasting effort to oppose it, and I think the energy used to oppose the casino would be better spent elsewhere.

Couple things:

1. Again, WDW hasn't always been full-out fantasy, imagination, etc. Remember, the resort's original slogan was "The Vacation Kingdom of the World". It wasn't just about feeling like a kid. The move towards pure kid-driven fantasy is, again, a relatively recent development.

2. Sure, bars are "everyday." So are restaurants. So are buses. So is golf. But Disney offers these. And who says bars can't be imaginative or wonderful?

3. I don't necessarily have anything against the kiddie fantasy thing. The problem is that there's no balance anymore. There USED to be balance. Plenty of stuff for kids and families, but more "adult" stuff, too. In the past 10-15 years or so, that balance has shifted.

EXACTLY...if the argument is that WDW should provide a more diverse selection of activities without strictly going back to "adult friendly locations" which can be defined in todays society as nightclubs, bars and casinos then that's fine. I feel there is almost a stigma against adults who simply can't understand why someone would suddenly have this instinctive urge to go clubbing or find the nearest pub once the sun sets, especially when you're in WDW....But like I said if the initial argument is incorporating more adult activities (more restaurant choices etc) which still fall into the WDW friendly environment, by all means have at it.

There's a stigma against people who don't understand how other people enjoy their time?

Again -- if you're a childless adult who's content with Disney's current offerings, great! But please understand that there are lots of us childless adults who aren't getting what we used to get out of WDW. That's the problem. WDW is a huge place, and lots of different things for different people can co-exist. WDW used to have something for just about everyone. As each year goes by, that seems less true.

I'm not saying they need to get rid of the fantasy and the cartoons and the kid stuff. But that shouldn't be the ONLY thing Disney invests in.

 

[SMS55]

There's a stigma against people who don't understand how other people enjoy their time?

Again -- if you're a childless adult who's content with Disney's current offerings, great! But please understand that there are lots of us childless adults who aren't getting what we used to get out of WDW. That's the problem. WDW is a huge place, and lots of different things for different people can co-exist. WDW used to have something for just about everyone. As each year goes by, that seems less true.

I'm not saying they need to get rid of the fantasy and the cartoons and the kid stuff. But that shouldn't be the ONLY thing Disney invests in.

I don't know so much about the childless adult Atleast I don't see many. Most have kids, but for the sake of this argument lets say we are talking about parents wth kids. Remember it is also their vacation and they might want to do something for themselves too. Perhaps some didn't go because THEY liked Disney but simply for their kids. We all agree, family and kids are Disney's main source of revenue. I think we all understand that but like you've said, they have gotten away from appealing to the parents of those kids. I enjoy the rides more than anyone but I also would enjoy some quality time with my wife. In the past my parents or my in-laws have gone. They've taken the kids on an afternoon and evening. Sure my wife and I rode some of our favorite rides together because we can't with the kids, but then we also wanted to go get dinner somewhere we didn't have to have screaming, cranky kids running around. Perhaps spend some time together having a drink and just chat. We are not home and for once we don't have to discuss bills, work and who's doing what chore. It's a little time to ourselves to relax. Let me break out some my old dance moves or get a good laugh at a comedy club. I am on vacation too. Parents sacrifice alot for their kids and for many families this is their only vacation. The parents can't afford to leave their kids with anyone for a week to go on a trip themselves.

 

[NORMNB8S]

I see both sides of the argument. While I have previously voiced that I am one of those guests who falls in the "21-35 with no children" demographic and I am perfectly happy with my WDW experience, as is my wife, I can also see where having something for those that aren't fully satisfied would be beneficial to Disney because it would mean more money for them. Additionally, while I am perfectly happy, I would be excited to see something like a tap room of sorts that features good local brews as someone in this thread previously mentioned. I'm okay without it, but if it existed, I'd probably venture in there from time to time. However, I also recognize that Disney (for better or for worse) has decided to gear more towards "family friendly" experiences just as Universal has decided to gear their focus in a different direction. I wonder if somewhere on a Universal message board, people with young kids are arguing over why Universal doesn't offer more "kid friendly" experiences.

A few questions for those that are wishing for more "adult" opportunities. Obviously Pleasure Island has come up a few times in this thread and we all know that Pleasure Island as it was once known will not be coming back. Having said that, what types of things would you be interested in seeing? Also, would you rather see funds go towards building these "adult" experiences or go towards developing new attractions and the like in the parks? There's no right or wrong answer for either of those questions, I'm just curious of your thoughts and trying to expand the conversation to more than "family friendly" vs "adult friendly."

 

[NORMNB8S]

we also wanted to go get dinner somewhere we didn't have to have screaming, cranky kids running around.

I think most can agree with that statement, no matter which side of the argument one falls on. A nice quiet dinner, just the two of you, is always nice.

 

[notslim99]

I see both sides of the argument. While I have previously voiced that I am one of those guests who falls in the "21-35 with no children" demographic and I am perfectly happy with my WDW experience, as is my wife, I can also see where having something for those that aren't fully satisfied would be beneficial to Disney because it would mean more money for them. Additionally, while I am perfectly happy, I would be excited to see something like a tap room of sorts that features good local brews as someone in this thread previously mentioned. I'm okay without it, but if it existed, I'd probably venture in there from time to time. However, I also recognize that Disney (for better or for worse) has decided to gear more towards "family friendly" experiences just as Universal has decided to gear their focus in a different direction. I wonder if somewhere on a Universal message board, people with young kids are arguing over why Universal doesn't offer more "kid friendly" experiences.

A few questions for those that are wishing for more "adult" opportunities. Obviously Pleasure Island has come up a few times in this thread and we all know that Pleasure Island as it was once known will not be coming back. Having said that, what types of things would you be interested in seeing? Also, would you rather see funds go towards building these "adult" experiences or go towards developing new attractions and the like in the parks? There's no right or wrong answer for either of those questions, I'm just curious of your thoughts and trying to expand the conversation to more than "family friendly" vs "adult friendly."

I like this.

I guess in the end, I will just have to come to grips with the fact that I now fall into the "Mommy Blogger" or "emotionally fragile 8 year old" catagories. I simply cannot wrap my brain around the notion that WDW is not already entertaining enough for adults. :hammer:

 

[dreamfinder]

Why then offer wedding services and honeymoon suites if you don't have adult things to do?

Because if you are to believe that WDW is all about families, and continuing to find new ways to convince parents that they must bring their kids to the parks, it helps their bottom lines. More families, more kids, more trips to WDW and the BBB or whatever is en vogue at that point.

Beyond that, they do seem to be further digging themselves into a family oriented niche. I'm not saying that they need to open a whole district of night clubs, but there does need to be something. That guests can get to and get back from without traipsing all over creation. Heck, even if is just what POFQ has, a little bar area with a musician or some other entertainment. Nothing fancy, just enough to spend some time once everything closes.

 

[majortom1981]

Disney can entertain adults without becoming to much like a casino. One of the best examples was the adventurers club. Another example is the new tiki bar at the disneyland hotel . If dinsey can bring back something like the adventurers club or ad a bigger version of the new tikibar in disneyland hotel that would be a huge start.

 

[Monty]

I like this.

I guess in the end, I will just have to come to grips with the fact that I now fall into the "Mommy Blogger" or "emotionally fragile 8 year old" catagories. I simply cannot wrap my brain around the notion that WDW is not already entertaining enough for adults. :hammer:

Me too!

I thoroughly enjoy every visit, with or without my 16 year old son. After 16 years in the Navy, I can probably drink most anyone under the table, but I don't need to. Enjoying myself isn't predicated on alcohol, though it plays a part, it's having fun and enjoying the offerings that are there. If I wanted something different, I'd go somewhere else. I don't, so I don't.

WDW has changed over the years. Some things for the better and some for the worse. I don't dwell on the worse, I focus on the better. The whiners who want every single aspect of WDW to cater to their personal ideals of what it should be are far too ego-centric to worry about, ignore them and enjoy yourself. :animwink:

I haven't snorted the pixie-dust, drank the kool-aid or been lulled into complacency. I'm a 52-year old adult who knows what he wants and goes where he can get it.

 

[muse1983]

Me too!

I thoroughly enjoy every visit, with or without my 16 year old son. After 16 years in the Navy, I can probably drink most anyone under the table, but I don't need to. Enjoying myself isn't predicated on alcohol, though it plays a part, it's having fun and enjoying the offerings that are there. If I wanted something different, I'd go somewhere else. I don't, so I don't.

WDW has changed over the years. Some things for the better and some for the worse. I don't dwell on the worse, I focus on the better. The whiners who want every single aspect of WDW to cater to their personal ideals of what it should be are far too ego-centric to worry about, ignore them and enjoy yourself. :animwink:

I haven't snorted the pixie-dust, drank the kool-aid or been lulled into complacency. I'm a 52-year old adult who knows what he wants and goes where he can get it.

Bravo!:sohappy:

 

[WDW1974]

It's funny how so many people miss the points or choose to. Or get all emotional and offended instead of simply discussing the matter at hand.

No one suggested that WDW should have casinos.

They have always been against them and that is their right. I would never want to see casinos in Orange or Osceola counties. But that is NOT the issue.

The issue is WDW attempting to influence what is allowed in a very LARGE state hundreds of miles away because they fear it will harm their business. And a large part of that is because they damn well know they don't have enough for adults (OK, this is where I'll say something that will insult some people who live to be insulted ... ) or adults who need more than Wishes and The MAGIC, The Memories AND YOU to have a fun night.

It's the old socialist mantra also rearing its head. You know, Disney loves capitalism and is all for making as much as it can and for fair competition and all that UNTIL they actually have to compete (see Wall Street). Then they want to use political power and graft to prevent themselves from actually having to compete. They have little confidence in their product and that is why they fear losing a large chunk of their convention business and a much smaller chunk of their family business if mega-casino resorts were to come to SoFla. Funny how Disney has never really cared about putting other places out of business over the years ... from mom and pop roadside locations to state icons like Cypress Gardens.

Yep, sure is funny, especially to the probably 30-35% of folks in SoFla that need REAL jobs.

I had to laugh how one of the critics (muse1983) of the casinos here changed their Walt tag quote since this thread began. It originally was Walt talking about how if you aim at just children you are dead. Odd timing on that change, right muse?

Of course, Walt drank and tossed around f-bombs and smoked (even if they airbrush the photos of him with cigs now!) ... I am pretty sure he liked card games too (but would have to go reread one of his bios). He was a real man, not a mindless corporate image that again, has become one where ALL WDW offerings have to be acceptable to emotionally fragile eight-year-olds.

I doubt when Walt was having martinis with Jack Wrather over at the DLH that there were children running around the bar (because in those days people understood that children don't belong everywhere, even at DL) and I don't think he was thinking that booze was bad (just that it didn't belong in DL ... well, except for his special club and private events!)

43 square miles (no, not the Imagineer who Tweets) is a very large place and certainly could have a few places where adults can engage in behavior of an adult nature ... I wouldn't personally recommend the Belle View Lounge at BW. The drinks there are very weak and they believe at a 4-star resort that you should look through a menu and then walk to the bar and place your order with the only person working.

~GFC~

 

[WDW1974]

Oh, again, I'd advise anyone who thinks WDW has ALWAYS been about entertaining emotionally fragile eight-year-olds (or adults who may think like them) to do some reading and research ... there are plenty of sites out there and blogs that show WDW's history when everything wasn't geared to the aforementioned groups.

And, no, this isn't simply another Pleasure Island discussion. I am talking plenty of things that existed well before PI opened.

~GFC~

 

[muse1983]

Thanks for pointing out the signature change. You're right, I decided to switch it after this discussion for 2 reasons. 1. I have had it since I joined the forums and wanted a new one. 2. I realized that,well mainly you for example, would probably choose to use it as an example of how even I support how there should be more of a "night life" for adults. Perhaps I took the quote the wrong way but I had always felt it to mean that even though your an adult, you will always be a kid at heart but at the same time I realize it could be up to many interpretations. But figuring you would see that as ammo and surely take a cheap shot because of it I figured I would try to avoid it. :wave:

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

Thanks for pointing out the signature change. You're right, I decided to switch it after this discussion for 2 reasons. 1. I have had it since I joined the forums and wanted a new one. 2. I realized that,well mainly you for example, would probably choose to use it as an example of how even I support how there should be more of a "night life" for adults. Perhaps I took the quote the wrong way but I had always felt it to mean that even though your an adult, you will always be a kid at heart but at the same time I realize it could be up to many interpretations. But figuring you would see that as ammo and surely take a cheap shot because of it I figured I would try to avoid it. :wave:

If that were the interpretation, then it would follow that you should only aim at kids because adults are still always a kid at heart so by aiming at kids you cover everyone.

Which clearly isn't the case, if WDW is worried about losing a chunk of its market share to an adult-oriented resort in a completely separate part of the state.

 

[Bolna]

... I wouldn't personally recommend the Belle View Lounge at BW. The drinks there are very weak and they believe at a 4-star resort that you should look through a menu and then walk to the bar and place your order with the only person working.

I was about to mention the resort lounges in this discussion as well... I recently stayed at the Boardwalk and came back with a similar feeling about the Bellevue Lounge as you did. I was there twice and it was actually something I was looking forward to before my trip because I think it is a beautiful space. But somehow it did not feel like a truly inviting place, more like a "counter service" variation of what I would expect in a deluxe resort as a lounge.

And I was very disappointed with the Tambu lounge at the Poly as well. This seems to have turned into nothing else than a waiting room for Ohana. It is even set up so that the check in desk for Ohana is now on the other side of the lounge than the restaurant itself. We were at the Poly eating dinner at Kona and intended to stay at the resort for watching the fireworks afterwards. But the Tambu lounge felt so unwelcoming that we really did not want to sit around there. It was full of tired looking families waiting for their Ohana reservation...

If I were staying at Disney's second most expensive resort I would expect a place where one feels welcome to relax with a drink (or even a coffee or something without alcohol)... The DLH just got this really cool bar recently, why does the Poly not have something like this??

It really is just little things like this which I am missing with regard to more "adult oriented entertainment"!

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for pointing out the signature change. You're right, I decided to switch it after this discussion for 2 reasons. 1. I have had it since I joined the forums and wanted a new one. 2. I realized that,well mainly you for example, would probably choose to use it as an example of how even I support how there should be more of a "night life" for adults. Perhaps I took the quote the wrong way but I had always felt it to mean that even though your an adult, you will always be a kid at heart but at the same time I realize it could be up to many interpretations. But figuring you would see that as ammo and surely take a cheap shot because of it I figured I would try to avoid it. :wave:

No cheap shot intended.

Just pointing out that you were actually contradicting yourself by using that quote of Walt's.

And the point of it was that he never aimed his entertainment at children. He always felt that was a recipe for disaster.

Hell, he may have even enjoyed having casinos on his Florida Property at some point (but we'll never know!)

Oh, and some of us may be kids at heart and enjoy flying to Neverland with Peter Pan and screaming away in a Tower of Terror, but also enjoy adult company and adult activities and not being surrounded 24/7 by someone's screaming/ill-behaved children.

~GFC~

 

[notslim99]

I had to laugh how one of the critics (muse1983) of the casinos here changed their Walt tag quote since this thread began. It originally was Walt talking about how if you aim at just children you are dead. Odd timing on that change, right muse?

I had to laugh at the fact that your inane drivel is so predictable that Muse1983 knew to change his tag quote because you would, predictably, take it out of context and use it as ammo. I've done a little post research on you, WDW1974, and it is clear that you have a lot of fun being very negative towards WDW. That, in and of itself, is enough to discount what you post.

No one is denying that Disney's energy would be better spent elsewhere than trying to thwart a casino 200 miles away. The thought that WDW is anything other than a "Family First" destination shows no shred of understanding of the park or Walt Disney himself.

 

[notslim99]

No cheap shot intended.

Just pointing out that you were actually contradicting yourself by using that quote of Walt's.

And the point of it was that he never aimed his entertainment at children. He always felt that was a recipe for disaster.

Hell, he may have even enjoyed having casinos on his Florida Property at some point (but we'll never know!)

Oh, and some of us may be kids at heart and enjoy flying to Neverland with Peter Pan and screaming away in a Tower of Terror, but also enjoy adult company and adult activities and not being surrounded 24/7 by someone's screaming/ill-behaved children.

~GFC~

And, wow! Your understanding of that quote is waaaaay off base.

 

[TalkingHead]

And, wow! Your understanding of that quote is waaaaay off base.

Could you clarify? You claimed he took the quote out of context. Educate us about the "real" meaning of the quote, then.