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Epcot or DHS??

Figment632

New Member
Original Poster
Which if these two parks do you think are furthest from it's original intent or idea (I'm not talking about Epcot being a city but it's original idea as a park.

Even though DHS has changed a lot I think Epcot had strayed further from it's original idea. Future world seems to be less about the future and more about thrill rides and character incorpararion. In my opinion putting nemo in the seas was a bad choice. There should be zero character incorpararion at Epcot. With that said I understand that you need to be able to meet characters like Mickey and I am ok with that.

Which one do you think had gotten away from it's original intent or message?
 
I'd have to agree with you about EPCOT in so far as the statement "it's original intent", but I can live with the character incorporation there. I'm not very fond of the whole Living Seas/Nemo thing (I much preferred the original attraction), but the rest is not so bad. And EPCOT is still the least "ankle-biter" infested of the parks, so us adults have a place to go, relax, watch a fantastic fireworks show, and have a little fun to boot!:)
 

mrtoad

Well-Known Member
I think EPCOT has changed from it's original the most with out a doubt.

I think your comment about the no characters in EPCOT is funny though as your avatar has Figment in it and he was in fact there when EPCOT was what it was back then. Even though he was not one of the "original" Disney characters, he was one that was created for EPCOT... :)
 

Figment632

New Member
Original Poster
I think EPCOT has changed from it's original the most with out a doubt.

I think your comment about the no characters in EPCOT is funny though as your avatar has Figment in it and he was in fact there when EPCOT was what it was back then. Even though he was not one of the "original" Disney characters, he was one that was created for EPCOT... :)

Figment is different because he was created for Epcot. Im talking about the pixar characters and donald in Mexico.
 

SirGoofy

Member
Even though DHS has changed a lot I think Epcot had strayed further from it's original idea. Future world seems to be less about the future and more about thrill rides and character incorpararion. In my opinion putting nemo in the seas was a bad choice. There should be zero character incorpararion at Epcot. With that said I understand that you need to be able to meet characters like Mickey and I am ok with that.

:rolleyes: There's ONE pavilion with characters. ONE! And it is by far an immense improvement over its predecessor. Living Seas was a bore fest, and the new one does a great job of giving information while still being fun.

But yea, EPCOT is by far different from its original iteration. Future World East is a ghost of its former self. M:S needs more of a pavilion built around it. The ride is great, but it just isn't a pavilion. TT will hopefully be changed up a bit soon. It's kind of sad that UOE is the most EPCOT like ride over there.

West is fine. Soarin' could use a new film, but other than that The Land is fine. Imagination is in terrible shape, but I'm hoping help is coming soon.

WS is still fun for eating/drinking, but is about as stale as bread from 1989.
 

raven

Well-Known Member
I'm going to go with the Studios on this one. Originally it was only to be a ride in Epcot placed between The Land and Imagination.
 

DisneyPrincess5

Well-Known Member
I'd have to agree with you about EPCOT in so far as the statement "it's original intent", but I can live with the character incorporation there. I'm not very fond of the whole Living Seas/Nemo thing (I much preferred the original attraction), but the rest is not so bad. And EPCOT is still the least "ankle-biter" infested of the parks, so us adults have a place to go, relax, watch a fantastic fireworks show, and have a little fun to boot!:)

Haha...I'm loving the ankle-biter comment! It's so true! And I agree with you.
 

wolf359

Well-Known Member
For the short answer, I offer this shaded box:

I have to say Disney's Hollywood Studios, without hesitation.

That park was intended to offer a look into how movies are made, and even witness actual projects, both live-action and animated, created right before your eyes.

Yet now the soundstages and backlot are either closed, repurposed, or torn down. The animation studio is closed and the tour is like visiting a brightly colored funeral. Death to animation, but look at the pretty posters! The backlot tour has almost no backlot left to tour, and one of the highlights is seeing giant stacks of tires for the stunt show cars. Yawn.

Yet, to be fair, that stunt show, and the much hated American Idol are about the only newer attractions brought to DHS that actually try to teach you something about how movies/television shows are made and give that "behind the scenes" glimpse.

The rumor Disney is considering dropping the word "Studios" from the name of the park entirely is pretty damning proof there's a big paradigm shift already in progress.

For the LONG answer, I offer the rest. Proceed at your own risk. :snore:

Now, I realize EPCOT is the new rallying point around here, which explains to me why it seems like such a popular answer. It seems like every scrap of information posted around here gets bent and twisted into fueling the conspiracy theory that every change that has occurred at EPCOT since 1982 (or pick whatever year was the last time YOU liked EPCOT) is a sign personifying the growing creative bankruptcy of the entire Disney corporation.

But as far as the original question goes, I just don't see nearly as large a shift in "intent or message" at EPCOT as I do at DHS. Let me tell you why.

Let's start with the easy part: World Showcase

World Showcase stands virtually unchanged since the day EPCOT opened. We've had two new countries added, both are well executed, offer something unique to World Showcase, and are pretty popular. China and Canada have new films, but they have the same message as before: "Come visit." And no, I really don't see how adding the Three Caballeros to Mexico's boat ride changes the intent or message of the ride. It's still a goofy little trip through Mexican Small World. Donald Duck neither destroys nor improves that fact.

Okay, so what about Future World?

First off, I think WAY too much emphasis is put on the word FUTURE, as it is usually used in a pejorative way to mean the current version isn't as forward thinking as it was "in the good old days."

Of course, in the "good old days" pretty much EVERY Future World pavilion dealt with the future by devoting most of its space to looking back into the past, almost completely dodging having to make too many futuristic prognostications. Which is actually a well used bait-and-switch tactic Disney has been using forever. Because it works! Here's another example: No one ever complains how Carousel of Progress doesn't fit into Tomorrowland's theme, in spite of it basically covering only the 20th century's progress involving kitchen appliances, while the attractions that feature space travel, aliens, and fantastically advanced technology are accused of "not fitting in" with Tomorrowland's "carefully crafted" theme just because they give starring roles to characters from Disney films.

Spaceship Earth, Living Seas, The Land, World of Motion, Horizons, and Universe of Energy are all very BACKWARD-looking pavilions, that spend much of their running time showing not where we're going at all, but where we've already been. And the two I left out, Imagination and Wonders of Life, pretty much avoided any real "future" elements right from the start.

But have they changed? At the core, the real heart, the spirit, meaning, or intent?

Let's start with Spaceship Earth. If anything, I'd say the most recent changes make it even more about the future than ever before, and pretty much everything in the new post show is not only technologically advanced, it's kinda cool, too.

Living Seas? I don't agree that adding characters from Finding Nemo makes that pavilion any less about the sea than before. The trick to keeping any pavilion relevant is to use something that makes the intended audience comfortable, and give them something they can relate to, and then offer the opportunity to go beyond that. The Nemo overlay gets a whole lot more people into the pavilion than ever before, and that's key. No matter how much "better" the pre-Nemo version was, once the SeaCabs and the film closed down, there really wasn't a whole lot left to do or see, and the lack of people visiting proved that. The pavilion has become an extended waiting area for people waiting to get a table at the Coral Reef. Now, the Living Seas seems like it's one of the busier pavilions whenever I visit.

The Land? I have to say, The Land has never seemed particularly involved in the future, beyond showing some modern growing and farming techniques. Adding Soarin' (and removing Food Rocks) is probably the biggest change that pavilion has seen. Did that change its message or intent? To me, no. I think the heart of The Land is still the boat ride, and between it and the greenhouse tour, guests are still getting a pretty solid look at food, farming, and the environment. Simultaneously losing Food Rocks and gaining Soarin' is just a big, big bonus.

Imagination? I really don't have anything too kind to say about this pavilion, other than the leap frog fountains are super cool when they're working. But this pavilion was never particularly futuristic, it's also not particularly good either.

Test Track? It think TT is by far more futuristic than World of Motion. Instead of gliding through a nostalgic cutie-pie tableaux looking back into the past while traveling in 1960s omnimover technology Test Track uses a cutting edge ride system (perhaps TOO cutting edge, honestly) to take you through an attraction that is thrilling and educational at the same time. Entertain and educate? Seems fairly EPCOT-ish to me.

Mission: Space? Well, again, the ride system is cutting edge (again, perhaps TOO cutting edge) and seems in all respects themed very much in the future. And I think adding a tamer version has allowed a lot more people to ride it, which is also a good thing, I think. And yes, I know Mission: Space isn't Horizons, and it never will be, and I understand that deep down that is why many people hate M:S. In a perfect world, I'd rather have them both.

Universe of Energy? Needs a rehab. Badly. My only question is, will it be another rehab that only changes around the film elements, or will they boldly rip out the dinosaurs and create something entirely new? Still, in it's current state you can't really say that it has betrayed its original intent or message when 75% of the ride is pretty much the same as it was originally, and the 25% Ellen that got added almost 15 years ago (man, has it been that long?) is as forward looking as it could be for being almost 15 years old.

Actually, what concerns me most is how through all 27 years and two versions of the Energy pavilion our needs, problems, and our progress towards reaching a solution hasn't changed much at all. The Energy pavilion doesn't need a rehab nearly as much as our energy priorities do...
 

agent86

New Member
Don't forget about the Studios! Originally it was going to be a working studio and pay homage to the classics. It does neither of those things any longer and now mostly anything can be tossed in the park because the theme is so broad and vague.

I agree with you. The only way in which Epcot has really strayed from it's original (theme park) intent is that it's added characters. And like others have said, I don't care for some of what they've done with that, namely Nemo. But all that aside, Epcot is still educational while being entertaining. That was certainly one of it's original intents, and I think it still accomplishes that. Another original intent of Epcot was that it would be in "a constant state of becoming". Well, it certainly does that as well, as evidenced by all the pavilions that have changed and been updated over the years.

DHS, on the other hand, is quite a bit different from it's original intent. As you and others have stated, it was originally supposed to be a working studio, and it no longer is. That's a pretty major change. It was also originally intended to pay tribute to all aspects of the movies, and not just Disney movies. Of course, at the time it was built, Disney didn't have the library of movies from which to build attractions (aside from those that would typically just be placed somewhere in Magic Kingdom). So it was sort of out of necessity that they got the rights to base attractions on movies from 20th Century Fox, MGM, Lucasfilm and others. But as time goes on and new things are added, everything new is clearly Disney and/or Pixar.

Another thing about DHS is that I think for a long time now, it's just kind of been the equivalent of messy room. There's really no clear logic in the layout of the park. There used to be, but not anymore. New attractions just seem to be placed wherever they will geographically fit, as opposed to the other Disney parks (and Universal parks too, for that matter) where consideration is given to the specific theme of certain areas when placing something new there.

It's ironic because DHS has my all time favorite Disney attraction...Tower of Terror. But aside from that, I find DHS to be far and away the least appealing of all the Disney or Universal parks.
 

juscet

Member
I think Disney, very early on, realized that they could not sustain Epcot as a purely educational park. Initial attendance was low and many people, especially kids, were not showing a lot of enthusiasm for the park. In this day and age where thrill rides are king I think Disney felt it was changing with the times and the almighty dollar. Epcot is still my favorite park but, thrill rides sell tickets, hydroponics don't.:)
 

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