MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Stupido]

It was ripped out with Splash. Long gone.

Was also comically tiny, and seemed like it belonged in a backyard.

 

[celluloid]

The lack of a theme that people care about due to the decline?

The difficulty in doing major renovations too?

The fact that people don't want to go on it and won't spend that much time to do so?

No, those aren't due to the decline. It's due to it being an island in the middle of a theme park, surrounded by a river in the middle of a land with very few popular IPs

There was once more to do and more ways to get there and back.

 

[aladdin2007]

Here’s a look at construction walls up along the Haunted Mansion queue from today:

Its going to be terribly hot through there now fans or no fans

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

surprised they didn’t do a little light theming for the mansion walls unless they are pretty temporary?

 

[𝐌𝖆𝖓 𝖎𝖓 𝐖𝖊𝖇]

Sign reads: "Patriotism Swells in the Heart of the American Bear" With a silhouette of Fozzie Bear.

 

[Tha Realest]

Here's the thing: that was built over 50 years ago now. The parks needs were very different than what they are now.

Then next time be more precise and intentional with your language. Framing it as “taking” 14 acres of existing park space is a very strange argument to make, considering things have existed there from the park’s outset.

Like, I wouldn’t walk around my neighborhood and grumble at all the homes owned by the original owners and complain to other neighbors they “take 14 house plots” and are building distressed 1940’s Cape Cods.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Then next time be more precise and intentional with your language. Framing it as “taking” 14 acres of existing park space is a very strange argument to make, considering things have existed there from the park’s outset.

Like, I wouldn’t walk around my neighborhood and grumble at all the homes owned by the original owners and complain to other neighbors they “take 14 house plots” and are building distressed 1940’s Cape Cods.

On a more serious note, I would be grumbling at a giant mostly abandoned mall that like 10 people even still go to that sits in "14 house plots" if I know that there's a housing crisis. Just because it "came first" and was "the original". Like sure? But that's a plot of land that could be used, square in city limits and easy to get to. Do we really need to preserve it because 10 people go to it and it's original? It's a city. It needs the space.

 

[celluloid]

View attachment 871882

On a more serious note, I would be grumbling at a giant mostly abandoned mall that like 10 people even still go to that sits in "14 house plots" if I know that there's a housing crisis. Just because it "came first" and was "the original". Like sure? But that's a plot of land that could be used, square in city limits and easy to get to. Do we really need to preserve it because 10 people go to it and it's original? It's a city. It needs the space.

You just turned it to some odd apples to oranges.

MK is not in a housing( or land...or even venue space) crisis.
People were with you that they can and should make things more attractive when numbers are low.

Your stance does not even address the wonky out of theme or tone choices, which are not neccessary to make something attractive. It can still be well coordinated Tom Sawyer or not. CGI anthropomorphic cars were not the only answer. Themed meet and greet interiors decades aside, Walt nor did the company ever put any sort of Mickey's or Andy's house on Mainstreet USA because that would draw people to lesser traffic corners. The degrees they are declining.
Somehow you want to stand on this hill that this was the only solution.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

You just turned it to some odd apples to oranges.

MK is not in a housing( or land...or even venue space) crisis.
People were with you that they can and should make things more attractive when numbers are low.

Your stance does not even address the wonky out of theme or tone choices, which are not neccessary to make something attractive. It can still be well coordinated Tom Sawyer or not. CGI anthropomorphic cars were not the only answer. Echibiys or meet and greeys in theme rece t decades aside, Walt nor did the company ever put any sort of Mickey's or Andy's house on Mainstreet USA because that would draw people to lesser traffic corners. The degrees they are declining.
Somehow you want to stand on this hill that this was the only solution.

Wait hold on, I didn't turn it into apples to oranges, I was replying to the original post that used a similar comparison and corrected it with how I see the situation instead of the fairly inaccurate way presented.

MK is in a capacity crisis which I allouded to with mentioning that it was "square in the city limits AND easy to get to." That is inherently true of this piece of land and not necessarily true about some of the current expansion plots.

I apologize but I didn't pick up what you meant with "Echibiys or meet and greeys in theme rece t decades aside" But I would absolutely say that meet and greets help spread out people if only for a moment, even in lesser utilized space like Future World's Moana meet and greet in Epcot, Mirabel in the fantasy garden area, and some of the characters around Main Street or else why is there so many people who are on main street throughout the day. Only so much shopping and eating Casey's Corner you can do. Small activities that take up time are 100% spread out to help with guest flow.

I never said that this was the only solution? It's just a solution I personally like. But I do think getting rid of the ROA is 100% inevitable. You can brag about the blessing of space etc etc all you want. The problem is getting people who are already tired to walk to certain areas. Imagine if Rafiki's Planet Watch had only a walkway instead of a train, no one would be going to it period. I like to think that as of right now, Frontierland's theme was very slightly altered to echo the developing nation of the US, where the years continuously change as we keep moving Eastward.

That's how I see it, at least.

 

[lazyboy97o]

MK is in a capacity crisis

Then inducing more demand is a very, very, very bad idea.

 

[celluloid]

I like to think that as of right now, Frontierland's theme was very slightly altered to echo the developing nation of the US, where the years continuously change as we keep moving Eastward.

That's how I see it, at least.

There is nothing objective with this language. Just waus of saying you like this new attraction idea.
When did the country develop into a place without humans?

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

The assumption that this will help capacity is interesting. One attraction on a giant piece of land, maybe two…and all of it housed within the park. And people think RoA and TSI is space wasted.

....yes because it is much more space wasted. They said they will be playing around with elevation which you can see in the concept art. TSI + ROA as a whole can fit maybe 900 (2 circuits of 450 people each boat for Riverboat which is VERY generous) and the Island which let's just say a raft leaves every 5 minutes of 50 people to be SUPER generous, goes MAYBE 600 an hour, at absolute best. For 12-14 acres of space. that is ABYSMAL. That is less than Jungle Cruise, Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Little Mermaid, Small World, Seven Dwarves (realistically), Soaring, Mission Space, JII, Living with the Land, Nemo, Spaceship Earth, RNRC, ToT, TSMM, Star Tours, Smugglers Run, MMRR, Everest, Kali, Dinosaur, TTBAB, FOP. All of those rides do MUCH better than TSI/ROA with 1/20 of the space each.

The proposed idea would be to take the 14 total acres, divide between 2 lands with 2 attractions each, MINIMUM.

Comparison:
Radiator Springs (1500 per hour, by itself beats TSI + riverboat)
Mator's (similar flat ride theorized 600 per hour)

Villian's Coaster
Everest/SDD (1620 or 1296, we know its a coaster but it's hard to find an exact match so I would go Everest or SDD)
Pirates-like Boat Ride (currently speculated, could be a simple flat ride but I doubt it so I'm going to use a more medium capacity boat ride, 2340)

So this same plot of land is at a lower estimate, supposed to support 5,736 people per hour ON JUST ATTRACTIONS, not even talking about dining or shops. The higher estimate is 6,060 people per hour, still not counting the shops or dining or extra walkable areas.

That is an increase of roughly 282.4% in capacity for this land and you're trying to claim it would be a waste of space? Even half of that would be a massive improvement.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

There is nothing objective with this language. Just waus of saying you like this new attraction idea.
When did the country develop into a place without humans?

It isn't a place without humans? We are there. I like to imagine its a mash of our world with their world. Same thing of when did talking rabbits and frogs start inhabiting mountains or bears start playing shows in old time opera houses. It's a fantasy.

 

[celluloid]

....yes because it is much more space wasted. They said they will be playing around with elevation which you can see in the concept art. TSI + ROA as a whole can fit maybe 900 (2 circuits of 450 people each boat for Riverboat which is VERY generous) and the Island which let's just say a raft leaves every 5 minutes of 50 people to be SUPER generous, goes MAYBE 600 an hour, at absolute best. For 12-14 acres of space. that is ABYSMAL. That is less than Jungle Cruise, Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Little Mermaid, Small World, Seven Dwarves (realistically), Soaring, Mission Space, JII, Living with the Land, Nemo, Spaceship Earth, RNRC, ToT, TSMM, Star Tours, Smugglers Run, MMRR, Everest, Kali, Dinosaur, TTBAB, FOP. All of those rides do MUCH better than TSI/ROA with 1/20 of the space each.

The proposed idea would be to take the 14 total acres, divide between 2 lands with 2 attractions each, MINIMUM.

Comparison:
Radiator Springs (1500 per hour, by itself beats TSI + riverboat)
Mator's (similar flat ride theorized 600 per hour)

Villian's Coaster
Everest/SDD (1620 or 1296, we know its a coaster but it's hard to find an exact match so I would go Everest or SDD)
Pirates-like Boat Ride (currently speculated, could be a simple flat ride but I doubt it so I'm going to use a more medium capacity boat ride, 2340)

So this same plot of land is at a lower estimate, supposed to support 5,736 people per hour ON JUST ATTRACTIONS, not even talking about dining or shops. The higher estimate is 6,060 people per hour, still not counting the shops or dining or extra walkable areas.

That is an increase of roughly 282.4% in capacity for this land and you're trying to claim it would be a waste of space? Even half of that would be a massive improvement.

The fatal flaw of this argument is that real estate must equal throughput evenly in every land.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Then inducing more demand is a very, very, very bad idea.

Okay, for this argument to work, you would have to agree that the Cars franchise will pull in 600 more people per hour that weren't already going to be there. That's a very interesting claim, isn't it? Just to be clear, this expansion would have to increase the parks attendance by 8,400 PER DAY just for the cars land to not just break even which wouldn't be a "very, very bad idea" that would not be taken up by this ride. Which is an interesting argument but one I don't think is rooted in fact.

 

[celluloid]

Okay, for this argument to work, you would have to agree that the Cars franchise will pull in 2,100 more people per hour that weren't already going to be there. That's a very interesting claim, isn't it? Just to be clear, this expansion would have to increase the parks attendance by nearly 30,000 PER DAY just for the cars land to be a "very, very bad idea" that would not be taken up by this ride. Which is an interesting argument but one I don't think is rooted in fact.

That would be fair because your argument to say Tom Sawyer had to go was based on low capacity experience design. You can't really propose the unworthy by intentional design of one without the other side. I think the posts we're pointing out your stance flaws more than crunching numbers.

A parking tram route driving guests all the way to MK BDO would be a much higher capacity than monorail and Ferry from TTC.

We accept lower capacity for experience.

The fatal flaw of your proposal is all should stop doing this and every land and attraction size should correlate to same capacity.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

That would be fair because your argument to.say Tom Sawyer had to go was based on low capacity experience design. You can't really propose the unworthy by intentional design of one without the other.

A parking tram driving guests all the way to MK BDO would be a much higher capacity than monorail and Ferry from TTC.

We accept lower capacity for experience.

The fatal flaw of your proposal.

I didn't say it had to go for its low capacity. I said it should go because it takes up a TON of prime real estate AND is low capacity.

not a great comparison as there is a bus that goes from TTC to MK which is the "higher capacity" system anyway but I disagree, a parking tram would not be a good idea because it would be a pretty slow and miserable experience in the heat without the grandoise-ness of the other methods. A peoplemover of some sort though to MK... I think would be decently popular and high capacity but I digress. Anyway, if this land is built similar to drawn, I would argue that it would ALSO be a great experience, grandoise, while giving a beautiful vista AND the capacity.

 

[celluloid]

I didn't say it had to go for its low capacity. I said it should go because it takes up a TON of prime real estate AND is low capacity.

not a great comparison as there is a bus that goes from TTC to MK which is the "higher capacity" system anyway but I disagree, a parking tram would not be a good idea because it would be a pretty slow and miserable experience in the heat without the grandoise-ness of the other methods. A peoplemover of some sort though to MK... I think would be decently popular and high capacity but I digress. Anyway, if this land is built similar to drawn, I would argue that it would ALSO be a great experience, grandoise, while giving a beautiful vista AND the capacity.

Ahaaa! Now you see real estate is not a througput equal correlation. Monorail and TTC are definitely prime real estate spots.



That is the point.

To a land theme.to the wilderness, some authentic wilderness and landscaping mixed in with a riverboat for more than just on it to appreciate is grandiose for a land themed to the Frontier Wilderness.

TTC is a wasted piece of real estate and method in our modern and even at the time built, not most efficient but that was not it's only goal.

AC bus routes would definitely be a more efficient way to get People to and from direct lot.
But you lose an experience.

Opinions are fine, but the things you have been stating have contradictions.

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Ahaaa! Now you see real estate is nkt a throughout correlation. Monorail and TTC are definitely prime real estate spots.

Dudpey

That is the point.

To a land theme.to the wilderness, some authentic wilderness and landscaping mixed in with a riverboat for more than just on it to appreciate is grandiose for a land themed to the Frontier Wilderness.

TTC is a wasted piece of real estate and method in our modern and even at the time built, not most efficient but that was not it's only goal.

AC bus routes would.def.be a more efficient way to get People to and from direct lot.
But you lose an experience.

Opinions are fine, but the things you have been stating have contradictions.

What? I don’t see how the TTC is actually prime real estate when it’s FAR outside the park gates. talk about apples to oranges! We’re referring to an area inside the park, atleast talk about Main Street or something for a counter argument and not such a baseless nothing burger

 

[celluloid]

What? I don’t see how the TTC is actually prime real estate when it’s FAR outside the park gates. talk about apples to oranges! We’re referring to an area inside the park, atleast talk about Main Street or something for a counter argument and not such a baseless nothing burger

There are hotels much further that call themselves on-site.

Prime real estate and make an articulated bus stop.

Deflection from the point.

Why do we ride fair but lower capacity methods to get to park from an intentionally far away parking lot?