MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Neither of those take up 14 acres of space. Moana is realistically where no ride could really fit into that vision and is a great use of space to add capacity that wasn't really there before and reduce the load on some other parts of the park while providing kids something else to really enjoy in Epcot.
This is simply not true.

Journey of Water was filler for the Festival Center plan. The Festival Center made absolutely no financial, programmatic or operational sense. For most guests it would have been a concrete plaza with a concrete ceiling.

Non-water based interactive experiences absolutely could have fit within the CommuniCore West building. The capacity had been there. There were also alternative plans that would have featured more capacity in better form than what they ultimately cobbled together with CommuniCore Hall. They also would have been a lot easier and cheaper to accomplish than putting a bunch of water on top of a basement.

It doesn’t have anywhere near enough capacity to meaningfully reduce demand elsewhere in the park.

You claim all of this wild stuff about Journey of Water like it inducing demand for the park and shifting patterns, but also claim absolutely nothing could have improved visitation to Tom Sawyer Island.
 
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AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
This is simply not true.

Journey of Water was filler for the Festival Center plan. The Festival Center made absolutely no financial, programmatic or operational sense. For most guests it would have been a concrete plaza with a concrete ceiling.

Non-water based interactive experiences absolutely could have fit within the CommuniCore West building. The capacity had been there. There were also alternative plans that would have featured more capacity in better form than what they ultimately cobbled together with CommuniCore Hall. They also would have been a lot easier and cheaper to accomplish than putting a bunch of water on top of a basement.

It doesn’t have anywhere near enough capacity to meaningfully reduce demand elsewhere in the park.

You claim all of this wild stuff about Journey of Water like it inducing demand for the park and shifting patterns, but also claim absolutely nothing could have improved visitation to Tom Sawyer Island.
You are right that it's not enough capacity to meaningfully reduce demand. But it does atleast slightly shift the demand. People aren't going from France to specifically go to Moana. But they might stay in Future World for an extra 20 minutes, maybe an extra 40 if they see Moana the character meet and greet is currently out. This does a good job at separating the large clumps as some people rush to very different sections of the park while incentivizing staying in Future World (I saw multiple families stay in Future World for quite a while going through Moana, the little play place, and the current Goofycore hall) these little activities kept those kids happy and out of the regular ride lines while taking up ridiculously little space. I believe based on the estimates I'm seeing, Moana has a similar overall capacity to the riverboat (150 at a time with 10-15 minutes spent) for again a FRACTION of the space with kids definitely asking to specifically go to Moana. This of course is not counting the Moana meet and greet.

Journey of Water is not a major demand sink, I'll fully admit that. But it definitely changes some peoples walking patterns as they stay for longer in the more attraction dense "Future World" and naturally staggers people.

And yes. I don't think anything meaningful could have been done to TSI to make it improved visitation to justify the space. This is 14 acres. That's an insane amount of space. That's more than Toy Story Land or Pandora. You can fit 2 Trons and 2 Remy Expansions in that. You can fit all of Galaxy's Edge in that. You can fit Mexico + Norway + have room to spare in that.

Why in the world would the most visited theme park in the world leave that space for a riverboat that can barely crack 900 riders an hour if the boat was jam packed? The people spoke, the average guest wants more rides and less ROA.

There are major problems in making TSI better.

1. You need to wait in line to ride a small raft to a little play area with not much for the average guest to do. Then wait in line to ride it back. This is taking up at minimum about 30 minutes with it being hard to advertise what there is to do.

2. What theme do you even use to make it better? I'm gonna cut it short. Kids do not care about Tom Sawyer now. I would need a new theme to actually improve. What theme could it even be that would make sense? Coco? Encanto? You need an attractor over there and Tom Sawyer is not going to do it.

3. You have limited space for full refurbishments. Operating on a small island in the middle of a river in the most busy theme park in the world is... tricky to say the least. Getting any construction equipment through there would be a pain.
 

The Underminer

Active Member
It is worse than hideous looking, in fact all of avengers campus fits that description
Avenger’s Campus’ theme allows it to be cheap. Which is reason enough to why it never should have been built.

Mission: Breakout is WAY better than TOT there, so I honestly am fine with it for that reason.
This is hogwash.

Every Target and Walmart in this country has a toy section that includes Cars merchandise, and has since the original movie released. They also have a bedding section that includes Cars sheets, blankets, pillows, and plushies among things in other departments.

They aren’t stocking that stuff as a favor to Disney.

Cars is a property, that from a business perspective has proven to stand the test of time.
Agreed. My little cousin wants to be Lightning McQueen for Halloween… for the third year in a row.

However, if Cars Land was bad or lackluster, it wouldn’t have been stratospherically as popular. Maybe Toy Story Land popular but nothing transformative like it was.

I mean, it single-handedly put California Adventure on the map and is still considered among the best if not the outright best theme park land ever.

But don’t underestimate the appeal of the IP itself because it took its already assured success (due to the original pre-Cars plans quality) to further heights.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
You are right that it's not enough capacity to meaningfully reduce demand. But it does atleast slightly shift the demand. People aren't going from France to specifically go to Moana. But they might stay in Future World for an extra 20 minutes, maybe an extra 40 if they see Moana the character meet and greet is currently out. This does a good job at separating the large clumps as some people rush to very different sections of the park while incentivizing staying in Future World (I saw multiple families stay in Future World for quite a while going through Moana, the little play place, and the current Goofycore hall) these little activities kept those kids happy and out of the regular ride lines while taking up ridiculously little space. I believe based on the estimates I'm seeing, Moana has a similar overall capacity to the riverboat (150 at a time with 10-15 minutes spent) for again a FRACTION of the space with kids definitely asking to specifically go to Moana. This of course is not counting the Moana meet and greet.

Journey of Water is not a major demand sink, I'll fully admit that. But it definitely changes some peoples walking patterns as they stay for longer in the more attraction dense "Future World" and naturally staggers people.

And yes. I don't think anything meaningful could have been done to TSI to make it improved visitation to justify the space. This is 14 acres. That's an insane amount of space. That's more than Toy Story Land or Pandora. You can fit 2 Trons and 2 Remy Expansions in that. You can fit all of Galaxy's Edge in that. You can fit Mexico + Norway + have room to spare in that.

Why in the world would the most visited theme park in the world leave that space for a riverboat that can barely crack 900 riders an hour if the boat was jam packed? The people spoke, the average guest wants more rides and less ROA.

There are major problems in making TSI better.

1. You need to wait in line to ride a small raft to a little play area with not much for the average guest to do. Then wait in line to ride it back. This is taking up at minimum about 30 minutes with it being hard to advertise what there is to do.

2. What theme do you even use to make it better? I'm gonna cut it short. Kids do not care about Tom Sawyer now. I would need a new theme to actually improve. What theme could it even be that would make sense? Coco? Encanto? You need an attractor over there and Tom Sawyer is not going to do it.

3. You have limited space for full refurbishments. Operating on a small island in the middle of a river in the most busy theme park in the world is... tricky to say the least. Getting any construction equipment through there would be a pain.

Most of the issues you post were issues with its most recent state after decades of decline. Not it's intended.
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
Most of the issues you post were issues with its most recent state after decades of decline. Not it's intended.
The lack of a theme that people care about due to the decline?

The difficulty in doing major renovations too?

The fact that people don't want to go on it and won't spend that much time to do so?

No, those aren't due to the decline. It's due to it being an island in the middle of a theme park, surrounded by a river in the middle of a land with very few popular IPs
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
The idea of a kids exploration area, caves, fort to play around in etc will never date, it's not about IPs. IPs only matter to the Disney corporation, they've lost sight of what childhood is about.
Okay yes, but should we take 14 acres for a play place when there are definitely better uses for that space? Kids were having a BLAST on the playplace in Epcot in Future World when I was there. MK could definitely have a more efficient and better play place that doesn't require carving out atleast an hour of your day for you kid to play there for a bit. I mean people are complaining on the other thread about TSL taking up too much space for only having 3 attractions but this takes up way more, in a much more populated park, with terrible capacity, and for less attractions that are PROVEN to be unpopular
 

AidenRodriguez731

Well-Known Member
Here’s the thing: they didn’t have to “take 14 acres for a play place” - that was already built and allocated.
Here's the thing: that was built over 50 years ago now. The parks needs were very different than what they are now. A TON more people are visiting than before where it made sense to duplicate something like this from Disneyland, heck it was fairly cheap and at the time had more attractions with in it. Now, low rider attendance has shown that people do not really care about the river as much as they might've in the past.

Look at the difference in crowds for ITTBAB, Muppet Vision, heck even Triceratops Spin when they all closed. Most people never even bothered to show up for the ROA because the average person does not care as much as most people here. This is the minority. If an attraction can't even 800 people an hour to even bother to wait in line, is it really worth that much space? Hell, Gran Fiesta tour has better ridership, even the damn teacups do.
 

JSchnitz

Well-Known Member
Just to add, there is/was(?) a kids play spot between Tiana’s and the Railroad Station there in Frontierland.
Also, I feel the last day wasn’t as crowded for the Rivers of America closings because many people had already said their goodbyes a month earlier when they came to do the same for Muppets.
 

WorldExplorer

Well-Known Member
Just to add, there is/was(?) a kids play spot between Tiana’s and the Railroad Station there in Frontierland.
Also, I feel the last day wasn’t as crowded for the Rivers of America closings because many people had already said their goodbyes a month earlier when they came to do the same for Muppets.

Was. The Laughin' Place playground was ripped out with Splash.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Most people never even bothered to show up for the ROA because the average person does not care as much as most people here.
The line went out the queue and onto the bridge by splash. Plenty of people were there.

I’m not sure why you’re so focused on the space, there are plenty of expansion pads available and also closed attractions and restaurants
 

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
This is simply not true.

Journey of Water was filler for the Festival Center plan. The Festival Center made absolutely no financial, programmatic or operational sense. For most guests it would have been a concrete plaza with a concrete ceiling.

Non-water based interactive experiences absolutely could have fit within the CommuniCore West building. The capacity had been there. There were also alternative plans that would have featured more capacity in better form than what they ultimately cobbled together with CommuniCore Hall. They also would have been a lot easier and cheaper to accomplish than putting a bunch of water on top of a basement.

It doesn’t have anywhere near enough capacity to meaningfully reduce demand elsewhere in the park.

You claim all of this wild stuff about Journey of Water like it inducing demand for the park and shifting patterns, but also claim absolutely nothing could have improved visitation to Tom Sawyer Island.
The problem with Moana is the same with Tom Sawyer Island. With the large number of repeat guests both are one and done. I go to WDW 2 to 3 times a year. I have not been on TSI in over 5 years, grand kids were all on it once and had no desire to go back. Same with Moana, went thru once and have no desire to visit again. Now consider Soarin--I have been on this attraction well over 50 times (combined both old and new version) and yet every trip still enjoy going on it. That being said my motto is "each to their own" and if someone wants to complain about the loss of TSI that is their option. Heck, Splash Mountain has been gone I believe over 3 years and people are still complaining about the change.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
The problem with Moana is the same with Tom Sawyer Island. With the large number of repeat guests both are one and done. I go to WDW 2 to 3 times a year. I have not been on TSI in over 5 years, grand kids were all on it once and had no desire to go back. Same with Moana, went thru once and have no desire to visit again. Now consider Soarin--I have been on this attraction well over 50 times (combined both old and new version) and yet every trip still enjoy going on it. That being said my motto is "each to their own" and if someone wants to complain about the loss of TSI that is their option. Heck, Splash Mountain has been gone I believe over 3 years and people are still complaining about the change.
Why not just walk through Moana as a pleasant thing to do?
It's as though you have to wait on line for it, and board it.
It's not out of the way.
 

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