WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[HauntedPirate]

Yeah we remember how they treated the APs during the last event, worked for 9/11 but today I think they lost them

Those filthy AP holders? The ones who bring in their own food and drink, take up tables and seats to eat this smuggled-in food, steal the best spots for parades and shows, pay little per visit, and spend virtually no money? The ones TDO relies on to fill the parks when times are tough and they need a boost to whatever? Good riddance to those freeloading swine, they aren’t needed.

 

[SteveAZee]

That’s far more pertinent to the discussion.

This might be as well:

Climate Change - Florida Climate Center

climatecenter.fsu.edu

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree with much of what you’ve said. People like different things; it doesn’t make you “nuts.”

Disney parks still have a huge fan base. The parks are fine if you can afford them.

The world is determined by consensus

What is “growing” in opinion?

The Parks are declining in enjoyment? The same? Or rising?

One personal opinion does not defeat a common sense assessment

Nor will it ever.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I dunno... I definitely felt that way about 3 years ago, but I've slowly warmed to the parks again. There is still a lot of love for Disney parks among people I know and we're not talking about uber wealthy people.

I guess 3 years ago it felt like it was nothing but cuts. Now? I feel like the proposed tradeoff is more of the "big stuff", in terms of park investment, new rides, new parades, hotels, etc. The customer service is still pretty darn good, to my mind, but I don't think it will ever be what it was circa 1970s given labor shortages and how much their operations have grown. I think they'll jump to automate things as soon as that's feasible and that will help a little with labor, but I see shortages in customer services being an ongoing problem. It's a new era for sure but at this point I see more upside to it than I did 3 years ago. If the promised improvements and investments never materialize feel free to work on an "I told you so" dance, lol. But for now I think they really mean it.

…mmmm…they ain’t adding much…nowhere close to refresh mostly stagnant parks

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's the problem. The fan base is shrinking slowly due to cost.

Correct. Simple and to the point.

Not catastrophic…but on a trend that will not fix itself,

Is it? I’ve yet to see any definitive proof of this.

Here’s how the press works: they don’t take flyers. It’s always something that can’t be shoved back in their face

This WSJ article? It came from the inside originally. “Disney worried about pricing” came from inside the room. It’s not a coincidence. Then they brought in Len and fleshed it out. Every negative writeup about anything Disney has a mole. Some obvious examples of late too.

 

[Chi84]

The world is determined by consensus

What is “growing” in opinion?

The Parks are declining in enjoyment? The same? Or rising?

One personal opinion does not defeat a common sense assessment

Nor will it ever.

I gave my own opinion. As always.

The parks are probably declining in enjoyment but I believe that’s primarily due to constantly rising prices.

Some people enjoyed the parks more years ago but there are many who enjoy them equally or even more now, depending on what they’re looking for.

I tend not to do much in the way of comparing what was to what is now. Others prefer to focus on that aspect. There’s nothing wrong with pining for the fjords; it just isn’t my way.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I gave my own opinion. As always.

The parks are probably declining in enjoyment but I believe that’s primarily due to constantly rising prices.

Some people enjoyed the parks more years ago but there are many who enjoy them equally or even more now, depending on what they’re looking for.

I tend not to do much in the way of comparing what was to what is now. Others prefer to focus on that aspect. There’s nothing wrong with pining for the fjords; it just isn’t my way.

Be afraid…we agree again

 

[monothingie]

If they are so aware of it, why aren't they doing anything about it?

Hubris

PIN codes do nothing to bring disgruntled guests back who will only experience the same thing that ticked them off in the first place.

The fundamental ethos of the company has not changed, in fact it's only getting worse.

When you tick off your most loyal customers and they don't come back, it's only a matter of time before the normies catch on. (And we are there right now)

 

[Agent H]

I gave my own opinion. As always.

The parks are probably declining in enjoyment but I believe that’s primarily due to constantly rising prices.

Some people enjoyed the parks more years ago but there are many who enjoy them equally or even more now, depending on what they’re looking for.

I tend not to do much in the way of comparing what was to what is now. Others prefer to focus on that aspect. There’s nothing wrong with pining for the fjords; it just isn’t my way.

IMO if weren’t for the current economy and the LLs upfront costs wouldn’t be that much of a problem.

 

[monothingie]

I gave my own opinion. As always.

The parks are probably declining in enjoyment but I believe that’s primarily due to constantly rising prices.

Some people enjoyed the parks more years ago but there are many who enjoy them equally or even more now, depending on what they’re looking for.

I tend not to do much in the way of comparing what was to what is now. Others prefer to focus on that aspect. There’s nothing wrong with pining for the fjords; it just isn’t my way.

Here's a twist.

I would pay more for a great overall experience if it didn't mean having to be hit with magical upcharges at every turn.

 

[Chi84]

Here's a twist.

I would pay more for a great overall experience if it didn't mean having to be hit with magical upcharges at every turn.

Do you mean the LLs? Which upcharges are you referring to?

 

[Tha Realest]

If they are so aware of it, why aren't they doing anything about it?

Disney is like the unfaithful spouse worried their partner is going to catch them cheating.

Mind you, they don’t care enough to stop the behavior - they just don’t want others to notice, and don’t want to get caught.

Everyone knows what can be done to reverse that trend; they just refuse to do it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do you mean the LLs? Which upcharges are you referring to?

I think those are the primary culprit…it triggers the “what does this ticket get me?” Impulse more by the day.

That’s the “trigger”

But just my opinion - the “afterhours premium experiency experiences” have finally been sniffed out for what they are: a shell game with capacity to charge double…essentially robbing the day guests

 

[PiratesMansion]

IMO if weren’t for the current economy and the LLs upfront costs wouldn’t be that much of a problem.

People don't like paying extra for things that:
1.) Used to be free
2.) Now comes with MORE restrictions than before (i.e. now doing the same attraction more than once a day using the service is not allowed, AND the most popular attractions aren't included and cost an additional ~$20 a head.

Even though I tend not to buy ILLs, having to add over $100 per person to an already expensive ticket for a less-good version of something that used to be free isn't fun, and it's not like the ticket and LL passes have stayed static in the meantime.

A five day ticket at Disneyland with all the add-ons used to be around $500 when I started visiting the parks as an adult around a decade ago. Now that same ticket is around $800, and LL is doing its fair share in contributing to that high price tag.

 

[JoeCamel]

People don't like paying extra for things that:
1.) Used to be free
2.) Now comes with MORE restrictions than before (i.e. now doing the same attraction more than once a day using the service is not allowed, AND the most popular attractions aren't included and cost an additional ~$20 a head.

Even though I tend not to buy ILLs, having to add over $100 per person to an already expensive ticket for a less-good version of something that used to be free isn't fun, and it's not like the ticket and LL passes have stayed static in the meantime.

A five day ticket at Disneyland with all the add-ons used to be around $500 when I started visiting the parks as an adult around a decade ago. Now that same ticket is around $800, and LL is doing its fair share in contributing to that high price tag.

If it went from $500 to $800 over 10 years that is ~6% a year so someone is slacking as Bob wants a 10% yoy increase to keep the investors happy

 

[Jrb1979]

I dunno... I definitely felt that way about 3 years ago, but I've slowly warmed to the parks again. There is still a lot of love for Disney parks among people I know and we're not talking about uber wealthy people.

I guess 3 years ago it felt like it was nothing but cuts. Now? I feel like the proposed tradeoff is more of the "big stuff", in terms of park investment, new rides, new parades, hotels, etc. The customer service is still pretty darn good, to my mind, but I don't think it will ever be what it was circa 1970s given labor shortages and how much their operations have grown. I think they'll jump to automate things as soon as that's feasible and that will help a little with labor, but I see shortages in customer services being an ongoing problem. It's a new era for sure but at this point I see more upside to it than I did 3 years ago. If the promised improvements and investments never materialize feel free to work on an "I told you so" dance, lol. But for now I think they really mean it.

The problem many overlook is if things continue with declining attendance, which will lower guest spending unless they raise prices again. If that does happen there is a good chance that a lot of these planed attractions have budget cuts.

I'm sorry but a bunch of E tickets isn't going to change much. Outside of MK, it's not really adding more to parks that need more than 10 attractions in them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If it went from $500 to $800 over 10 years that is ~6% a year so someone is slacking as Bob wants a 10% yoy increase to keep the investors happy

He doesn’t “want”…he “promised” them

A huge difference between he and his predecessor

 

[John park hopper]

Just remember at on time Disney produced the magic for its guest --then they abdicated that goal and said the guests were the magic opening the door for ever increasing prices and magic is not their responsibility.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Just remember at on time Disney produced the magic for its guest --then they abdicated that goal and said the guests were the magic opening the door for ever increasing prices and magic is not their responsibility.

Agreed!

Disney producing the magic was cost cut and outsourced to the guest.

At least Disney is honest in their Ads, "the guests are the magic" officially shifting the responsibility.

 

[Streetway Again]

“There’s no turning back now” “stretching room door ominously closes”

As a younger person, I often kinda wish I could experince the mythical “WDW in the 90s/back then” that everyone talks about. Alot of stuff looks cool. Though I’m sure it had its problems like wdw has now. Nostalgia is a funny thing for us fans. We probably see the past better than it was.

Though I do accept my fate of eventually being doomed to berate how WDW was “better back in my day” with no genie+, river, the rides, ect, and how “chapek and iger” muddled with everything. Its inevitable. Especially as an Epcot person.